Young Earth v. Old Earth

[buffalo]

Some drugs are ineffective, research finds

…Unproven and ineffective care is killing us financially, too. In his call to weed out ineffective treatments, Congressional Budget Director Peter Orszag has said they cost $700 billion annually, about a third of U.S. health-care spending.

 

[buffalo]

what are you talking about?

I don’t know what you think you’ve “reduced”, or even what the word means as you’re using it.

does the weather service predict landfall locations a month in advance, or are you making another uninformed assertion?

You have got to be smarter than your reply.

Science is pretty basic. The ability to advance technology and medical is built on failures. Failures, then lead to successes. These things build upon each other. Accumulated knowledge leads to further improvements.

No, they don’t, and that is the point. They cannot. Thanks.

 

[Wirraway]

You have got to be smarter than your reply.

if this is some kind of quid pro quo, have one on the house. now that its over, let’s drop the ad homs, ok?

Science is pretty basic. The ability to advance technology and medical is built on failures. Failures, then lead to successes. These things build upon each other. Accumulated knowledge leads to further improvements.

and… what is the point you’re trying to make? some science and tech advances based on lessons learned from prior failures, most doesn’t. I got it that you’re anti-science, and I know that you don’t have a firm grasp on a lot of this (e.g., medical protocols), but, please, make your point.

No, they don’t, and that is the point. They cannot. Thanks.

what are you talking about? don’t be so cryptic.

 

[buffalo]

if this is some kind of quid pro quo, have one on the house. now that its over, let’s drop the ad homs, ok?

and… what is the point you’re trying to make? some science and tech advances based on lessons learned from prior failures, most doesn’t. I got it that you’re anti-science, and I know that you don’t have a firm grasp on a lot of this (e.g., medical protocols), but, please, make your point.

what are you talking about? don’t be so cryptic.

Thanks for the pass.

I am not anti-science. I love science. It does provide great benefits. The bottom line point I will make is that I see it for what it is. I do not pay homage to it. I do not like when some overplay it. It can have a dark side if unmanaged.

you - does the weather service predict landfall locations a month in advance,

me - No, they don’t, and that is the point. They cannot. Thanks.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Never underestimate. That is a sure sign of arrogance. You have just lost a few points of respect. :tsktsk:

Oversimplistic. It’s funny how irreducibly complexity is ridiculed, but here is a case that is exactly what science is built on. I have reduced it and you are not happy.

Uh NO! that’s not what I said. If the weather service says that a hurricane is a day away from hitting me I am out of there. But if the weather service says in a month you will be hit, I think I am just going to stick around a little longer, and so would you.

I agree with you 100%. Wirraway seems clueless and can’t defend himself. We do need some science in our lives, but science isn’t 100% accurate and never will. Even the most grave situations we still must rely upon God first and then science. God gave science for good. Like I said earlier lately science has become its own religion and has become mostly a bunch of theories most, can’t be proven, some can.

 

[Wirraway]

…
you - does the weather service predict landfall locations a month in advance,

me - No, they don’t, and that is the point. They cannot. Thanks.

100 years ago they couldn’t predict landfall a day in advance. I don’t understand how this is an indictment against either science or the weather service.

maybe I should be asking what you expect the NWS to be able to do?

 

[Orogeny]

I agree with you 100%. Wirraway seems clueless and can’t defend himself. We do need some science in our lives, but science isn’t 100% accurate and never will. Even the most grave situations we still must rely upon God first and then science. God gave science for good. Like I said earlier lately science has become its own religion and has become mostly a bunch of theories most, can’t be proven, some can.

Agreed that science isn’t 100% accurate. That being said, what part of the science of evolution is wrong? Please provide some scientific backup to your claims.

Thanks.

Peace

Tim

 

[edwest2]

Well let’s look at the medical cases. Most of this is done through trial and error. It is done first on animals with good reason.

So we take 10,000 people and subject them to a drug. We run the trials and then post the results. If the results are good enough then the population can benefit.

In primitive cultures, the same thing happened. They watched what the animals ate. If the animals keeled over then it was a good bet they shouldn’t feed this to their kids.

Now I do agree we have accelerated and refined this process. However, many people still die, because the drugs are not completely effective.

Hurricane tracks are best guesses.

The medical cases are entirely trial and error. A large batch of tubes are filled with particular substances and the proposed medicine is injected and the reaction is recorded. If the results are positive, then animal trials.

Primitive cultures figured out the antibacterial effects of honey and developed a lengthly list of roots, leaves, bark, flowers and seeds that they were able to determine were beneficial for human health.

Hurricanes are tracked by satellites and specialized aircraft and can still veer off the predicted track.

Viruses and bacteria have the built-in ability to modify their structure in response to foreign chemicals.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Wirraway]

I agree with you 100%. Wirraway seems clueless and can’t defend himself. We do need some science in our lives, but science isn’t 100% accurate and never will. Even the most grave situations we still must rely upon God first and then science. God gave science for good. Like I said earlier lately science has become its own religion and has become mostly a bunch of theories most, can’t be proven, some can.

tobin, kid, don’t put words in someone else’s mouth. if you plan on levelling ad homs, do it directly to me. here’s your chance to fill in the box:

.

now, you can answer the question you’ve evaded by hiding behind the personal attacks.

if your kid were exposed to smallpox, would you trust science and get him or her a vaccination from Atheist General Hospital or just pray about it?

 

[Wirraway]

The medical cases are entirely trial and error. A large batch of tubes are filled with particular substances and the proposed medicine is injected and the reaction is recorded. If the results are positive, then animal trials.

Primitive cultures figured out the antibacterial effects of honey and developed a lengthly list of roots, leaves, bark, flowers and seeds that they were able to determine were beneficial for human health.

Hurricanes are tracked by satellites and specialized aircraft and can still veer off the predicted track.

Viruses and bacteria have the built-in ability to modify their structure in response to foreign chemicals.

Peace,
Ed

ok, ed, the thumbnail descriptions aren’t off the mark, but are you saying science isn’t reliable? not reliable enough? plague can’t be cured? smallpox isn’t eradicated in the wild?

 

[buffalo]

if your kid were exposed to smallpox, would you trust science and get him or her a vaccination from Atheist General Hospital or just pray about it?

Bingo. That is indeed the question.

Most of us would choose the Atheist Hospital.

The real questions is does that diminish our faith? Does our new found dependence on science for the cure fit with His plan for us?

Now the Catholic Church teaches that God wants this and we should seek medical treatment. For many this has actually put distance between God and them. It has propped up man on a pedestal.

Is this the Garden of Eden all over again.

God wants us to use science to complement Him not replace Him.

 

[Wirraway]

…Now the Catholic Church teaches that God wants this and we should seek medical treatment. For many this has actually put distance between God and them. It has propped up man on a pedestal.

Is this the Garden of Eden all over again.

God wants us to use science to complement Him not replace Him.

I agree with you, first of all, about the redlined.

but I don’t see the pedestal as an inevitable result. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but why do you think its inevitable?

 

[tobinatorstark]

tobin, kid, don’t put words in someone else’s mouth. if you plan on levelling ad homs, do it directly to me. here’s your chance to fill in the box:

[If my kid was exposed to smallpox, would I get him or her vaccinated? Yes, but not at just any hospital either. I would never take my child anything atheist. Would I pray about it? Most defenately pray to God for the comfort and strength of my child. Would I trust science. No I trust God will provide through medical means and his glory. There is a difference in trusting science in full and trusting that God will provide through prayer and medical means.Still the vaccination may not work. Only God knows for sure, not science. My point being, put trust in God for comfort and strength not just for the child but for the doctors.*

now, you can answer the question you’ve evaded by hiding behind the personal attacks.

if your kid were exposed to smallpox, would you trust science and get him or her a vaccination from Atheist General Hospital or just pray about it?

 

[Wirraway]

tobin,

is smallpox vaccine less effective at Atheist General for some reason?

 

[buffalo]

I agree with you, first of all, about the redlined.

but I don’t see the pedestal as an inevitable result. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but why do you think its inevitable?

Because that is how we are trained. I answered it in the previous post. We would choose the Atheist Hospital. Why? When our prayers aren’t answered? Or we just didn’t pray because we have been disappointed in the past?

 

[Wirraway]

Because that is how we are trained. I answered it in the previous post. We would choose the Atheist Hospital. Why? When our prayers aren’t answered? Or we just didn’t pray because we have been disappointed in the past?

I’d suggest that a typical answer here, if you could poll people who have faced a life or death situation, would be that a Catholic would seek out the best available medical treatment, regardless of from where (either Atheist General or St. Protestant), AND pray.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Agreed that science isn’t 100% accurate. That being said, what part of the science of evolution is wrong? Please provide some scientific backup to your claims.

Thanks.

Peace

Tim

The Bible itself has proven how the heaven and earth was created as well as man. I don’t know if you have ever heard of a Bible or even read one, but proof is inside the Bible in Genesis. Genesis is the first book of the Bible. It describes how the heaven and earth was created as well as man. This disproves evolution. If you want to find out information about how to obtain a Bible, you can go to a bookstore, library or google it online. My suggestion in a Bible translation is the Douay-Rheims Challoner text. And just to let you know there different Bibles(Protestant and Catholic). A list of Catholic Bibles include, Latin Vulgate, Douay-Rheims, Jerusalem Bible, New Jerusalem Bible, Revised Standard Version-Catholic Editon. New Revised Standard Version, New American Bible. If you are still confused as to what a Bible you can google that too.

 

[tobinatorstark]

tobin,

is smallpox vaccine less effective at Atheist General for some reason?

1. The name is Toby not Tobin. Tobinator is my nickname
2. Possibly

 

[Wirraway]

The Bible itself has proven how the heaven and earth was created as well as man. I don’t know if you have ever heard of a Bible or even read one, but proof is inside the Bible in Genesis. Genesis is the first book of the Bible. It describes how the heaven and earth was created as well as man. This disproves evolution. If you want to find out information about how to obtain a Bible, you can go to a bookstore, library or google it online. My suggestion in a Bible translation is the Douay-Rheims Challoner text. And just to let you know there different Bibles(Protestant and Catholic). A list of Catholic Bibles include, Latin Vulgate, Douay-Rheims, Jerusalem Bible, New Jerusalem Bible, Revised Standard Version-Catholic Editon. New Revised Standard Version, New American Bible. If you are still confused as to what a Bible you can google that too.

this condescending post is way out of line. kid, you’ve got to refrain from personal insults here.

 

[larsegarots]

science has become its own religion and has become mostly a bunch of theories most, can’t be proven, some can.

This is nonsense. A theory in science isn’t the same thing that you mean when you talk about theories in your daily life. You might be confusing a scientific theory for a hypothesis, a completely different concept.

A scientific theory is the highest level you can obtain in science. It is nearly higher than facts, because scientific theories explain observable facts. In order to be a valid scientific theory there must be some way that an observation or experiment could prove it to be false. Scientific theories are rigorously tested and NO scientist can find a way to falsify it. If some part is found falsified, then it is not considered a theory any more.

Scientific theories got us to the moon, created atomic energy, and your car. Germ Theory explains why we get sick, why we get infections, and how to make us healthy.