Young woman chooses baby's life over her own

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Miami, Fla., Jun 15, 2010 / 07:17 am (CNA).- The story of Benny Abreu, a young woman from the Dominican Republic, has moved Floridians because of her testimony to motherly love. The Florida woman suffered from serious heart problems and preferred to die rather than abort the baby she was carrying.
Abreu, 25, graduated from Florida Central University at the beginning of May and decided to continue with her pregnancy, knowing that her serious heart condition could lead to complications.
According to Florida’s La Prensa newspaper, she never considered the possibility of abortion and saw her pregnancy as a blessing.
“The doctor told her she had to abort if she wanted to survive, but she told him no, that she could not kill her baby and that she was going to continue with her pregnancy,” said Martha Motley, the baby’s grandmother.
On May 17, Abreu gave birth to her son but her condition worsened. She was transferred to Shands Hospital in Gainesville, which specializes in cardiology, where she died on May 30.
This is the Gospel of Life in real time and a witness to revealed truth, without compromise, without any consideration for social forces or the non-values of others. Only one thing counts here, the Truth that has been revealed by Jesus Christ, whether anyone else believes it or not. It remains the only truth that is acceptable in the world and through all time. This young woman is a witness to that truth.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/young-florida-woman-chooses-to-die-rather-than-abort-baby/

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
What of Catholic women who don’t feel that they can do what this young woman did?
 
*Dear Br. JR,

Thank so much for sharing this.

It reminded me of a coworker of mine who later became a friend and then some one whom I have tremendous admiration, love and respect for.

After her first child was born she was warned that due to complications that had developed during her pregnancy, if she ever got pregnant again that the pregnancy would probably kill her. Well she did get pregnant again and did refuse to have an abortion. She did almost die when her daughter was delivered but didn’t. But it did leave her medical condition so severe that when her daughter was I believe about 6 or 7 she did die from complications of it.

In getting to know her in her last few years before she died she told me her story and that even though she knew her health problems/complications were because of having had her children she still had no regrets. In her own words she told me if she had it to do over again she would still have chosen life for her children. It was a very moving experience to hear her talking this way and I knew she understood and meant every word she said.
I also knew this women to never complain about anything. She was always able to have a smile or share joke with you no matter how worn out or tired she was.

Her medical condition was with the heart and lungs and since Benny’s was with her heart it reminded me of her and I was moved and compelled to share her story with you.

I hope and pray you do not mind me sharing another woman’s witness to that Truth to the one you have posted above.
 
What of Catholic women who don’t feel that they can do what this young woman did?
Reading the entire article I can’t tell if she had heart problems before the pregnancy as well. If she went into the pregnancy knowing she had a weak heart, then that’s a different story as well.

These cases are always so hard to hear about. The thing is, you can’t end another’s life because there is a chance that you may be hurt or die in the process. This woman didn’t know for a fact that she would die. The only cases where death is certain is an ectopic pregnancy.
 
Reading the entire article I can’t tell if she had heart problems before the pregnancy as well. If she went into the pregnancy knowing she had a weak heart, then that’s a different story as well.

These cases are always so hard to hear about. The thing is, you can’t end another’s life because there is a chance that you may be hurt or die in the process. This woman didn’t know for a fact that she would die. The only cases where death is certain is an ectopic pregnancy.
Actually, I should apologize for having entered this thread because any observations I might wish to make aren’t really appropriate in ‘Catholic News’ where they might be in, say, ‘Secular News’.
 
Actually, I should apologize for having entered this thread because any observations I might wish to make aren’t really appropriate in ‘Catholic News’ where they might be in, say, ‘Secular News’.
shrugs I can’t speak for other posters, but I love hearing from you, and that includes your insights! 😃
 
shrugs I can’t speak for other posters, but I love hearing from you, and that includes your insights! 😃
I suppose my thoughts really stem from discussions on the ‘Nun case’ (in ‘Secular News’) and the effect of the Catholic position on non-Catholics/non-Christians where, for some reason, like Catholic Hospitals, a conflict of positions in these sorts of circumstances could take place.
 
I suppose my thoughts really stem from discussions on the ‘Nun case’ (in ‘Secular News’) and the effect of the Catholic position on non-Catholics/non-Christians where, for some reason, like Catholic Hospitals, a conflict of positions in these sorts of circumstances could take place.
Ah. I am unfamiliar with that thread. I’ll have to head over to Secular News and check it out. 🙂
 
I suppose my thoughts really stem from discussions on the ‘Nun case’ (in ‘Secular News’) and the effect of the Catholic position on non-Catholics/non-Christians where, for some reason, like Catholic Hospitals, a conflict of positions in these sorts of circumstances could take place.
I believe that what you may want to work on is your understanding of this teaching. I have seen you repeat several times “that Catholic position.” The Church has said over and over again that this is not its position. It’s not the Catholic position. It’s God’s position. The Catholic Church is only the messenger, not the law giver or the message.

When it comes to God’s positions, no other positions are admissible, under any circumstances. St. Paul and the Church Fathers made this very clear in their dealings with the Galatians. The Galatians held that because Greece was a democracy they could not hold all Greeks to the message of the Gospel. St. Paul responded by telling them that there is no other message of truth but the message of Jesus Christ. Therefore, they were morally bound to live by the message of the Gospel and hold the rest of the Greeks to the same moral standard.

After his death, the first generation of Church Fathers continued to hold the Galatians to this mandate under threat of eternal damnation. The Church has never changed this position. Pope John Paul II infallibly restated this position in Evangelium Vitae. Pope Benedict XVI called this respect for the immoral opinions of others, moral relativism and denounced it.

When one practices such moral relativism, one walks a very fine line between salvation and damnation. There is no other truth except that life is sacred from conception to natural death. People can believe many things and say many things, but we may never accept or tolerate anything that they say which is contrary to revealed truth.

Respect for others means kindness, compassion and protection of their human rights. But man only has those rights assigned to him by God. Unfortunately, we have been led to believe that differences of opinions are a human right. This is the great lie of the relativistic world. This is not true and has never been true. God never gave man the right to disagree with his revelation and his laws. He gives man the freedom to choose between salvation and damnation, not the right to disagree with him. He never gave man the right to do evil. To have a difference of opinion on an issue that is neutral is one thing. To have a different opinion on a moral issue is quite another. The latter is never permissible. It can only be tolerated when the person has no understanding of the truth. Even then, those of us who know the truth have a moral duty to teach it to those who do not understand it, even if it means that we have to make the choices that these women have made. They have taught the world something with their lives.

What we see in this article and in the case that Simple Soul has shared is the testimony of two women who have lived according to revealed truth. According to that truth, no one may take the life of the unborn child to save the mother or the life of the mother to save the child. Both lives are sacred and everything possible has to be done to preserve both. If one or both die, it is God’s will, not man’s will.

The answer to the question is what happens to a Catholic woman in this situation? She must forfeit her life, if there is no other alternative. But she cannot sacrifice the life of her unborn child. Some people will argue in favor of the other children that may be left orphans. Our faith tells us that God never leaves anyone orphan. Even if a mother forsake her child, God will never forsake us. Based on this faith, holy mothers sacrifice their lives to comply with the moral law revealed by God, not the Church. It is not the law of the Church. Thou shall not kill is God’s law, not our law. We have made it our own, because it has been given to us.

These women have shown us what happens when we make God’s law our own. There is great sacrifice and even death invovled. There is also great grace poured out upon the world and guarranteed salvation for the mother who gives her life. In a case like Gianna Mola there were other children and a husband in the picture. Today her husband is being considered for canonization, even though he died two months ago. Her children are very proud of their mother and very glad that she made the choice that she did. The daughter who never knew her mother, is today a leading pro-life OB/GYN in Italy. She has made it her life’s work to protect the unborn.

This is a degree of holiness that no democratic society has a right to violate by legalizing an evil. It is also a degree of sanctity and security of eternal salvation that other faith can guarrantee except our own, because we have the fulness of truth and we are also the only keepers to the Keys to Heaven and Hell.

As the great saints have taught us, Truth does not contradict Truth. Therefore, there is only one truth and the rest are just opnions. As St. Francis of Assisi told our early brothers, “Your mission, under penalty of sin, is to change human opinion so that all people will know and see how much God loves us. Tell them that there is nothing to fear.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Ah. I am unfamiliar with that thread. I’ll have to head over to Secular News and check it out. 🙂
Oh, it’s just that I had the ‘shudders’ about it about it at the time.

One of the things that Christians and Jews have disagreed about for the past couple of millennia is just this question - Judaism gives priority to the life of the mother (basically, until the baby’s head emerges). Could be one of the reasons for the popularity of Jewish doctors in olden times and why the Church used to get very cross, from time to time, about Christians going to them.
 
I believe that what you may want to work on is your understanding of this teaching. I have seen you repeat several times “that Catholic position.” The Church has said over and over again that this is not its position. It’s not the Catholic position. It’s God’s position. The Catholic Church is only the messenger, not the law giver or the message. . . . .
I’m only aware of discussing abortion once before, on the ‘Nun Case’ thread on Secular News, where I said that I appreciated that the Catholic position was entirely logical given Catholic premises.

The thing is that, after a couple of millennia of disagreeing on this very question, we’re all not going to start agreeing with one another, no matter how often we re-hash the argument, and, as I mentioned on that thread, I doubt that arguing about it is a good idea, since the worst rows on CAF often arise not between people who fundamentally disagree about a topic but between people who disagree ‘just a bit’.

I’ve already apologized about turning up on this thread in ‘Catholic News’.
 
Oh, it’s just that I had the ‘shudders’ about it about it at the time.

One of the things that Christians and Jews have disagreed about for the past couple of millennia is just this question - Judaism gives priority to the life of the mother (basically, until the baby’s head emerges). Could be one of the reasons for the popularity of Jewish doctors in olden times and why the Church used to get very cross, from time to time, about Christians going to them.
I admit, I don’t know about the history in this case.

I can say, however, that it’s a heartbreaking situation. I do notice that the church (Catholic) Doesn’t give precidence to either party in these cases. From what I had read, it looks as though the rule is one can not intentionally kill another. This means that the mother can seek any medical treatment that is not designed to kill the child. This makes cases such as ectopic pregnancy, cancer, and other situations treatable, with harm done to the child. Whereas in this situation, it’s the other way 'round.

I admit, I can feel for the woman. My goodness, my husband andI have had this talk a billion times, and I have stated over and over that the baby - MY baby - has precidence over my life if the time comes. My husband has a really hard time with that because he doesn’t want to lose me. It’s just such a hard situation.
 
I admit, I don’t know about the history in this case.

I can say, however, that it’s a heartbreaking situation. I do notice that the church (Catholic) Doesn’t give precidence to either party in these cases. From what I had read, it looks as though the rule is one can not intentionally kill another. This means that the mother can seek any medical treatment that is not designed to kill the child. This makes cases such as ectopic pregnancy, cancer, and other situations treatable, with harm done to the child. Whereas in this situation, it’s the other way 'round.

I admit, I can feel for the woman. My goodness, my husband andI have had this talk a billion times, and I have stated over and over that the baby - MY baby - has precidence over my life if the time comes. My husband has a really hard time with that because he doesn’t want to lose me. It’s just such a hard situation.
That’s it, it is all so heartbreaking and, in a world of abortion on demand, we’re talking about women who really do want their babies.
 
I say it is very heart breaking. but also an eye opener to all women that the right choice is there no matter how hard it is to make no matter who will miss you. In the end God will ask you the question you but had a choice and you made it for this women i belive that God will say she made the right one. and i smile and will pray for every women like this that they like her will make the right choice even if it does indanger there lives.

Pray for the women who have a choice and pray for the children that are lost because of the wrong choices. and pray for the women and children who have to make the choice… 🙂 and pray for the women who are lost in making the right choice. we know God has them under his wing and that one day we may see them again…
 
Kaninchen, I have no problem hearing the perspective of others as long as they are playing honest about who they are to begin with. You always are, so it is no surprise to anybody that we often disagree. Besides, your wit adds tons of charm to some overly serious threads!

I see it slightly different than JR and am not sure if I have it wrong, misunderstand him or he has it wrong. Abortion is as he says. It is not a religious issue, but a human rights issue. We can’t just agree to disagree.

Where i might differ with him is on moral issues that do NOT involve human rights. For example, if I were a catholic politician, I do not believe that I would be obliged (in this current culture) to support a ban on condoms and the pill or prosecution of those found to have committed fornication. These matters involve moral wrongs that are not negotiable and have the same negative effects on non-catholics as they do catholics, but the commission of them does not violate anyone’s human rights. In those cases, I DO believe that we must work towards a healthier culture by proposing virtue rather than imposing it by mere law. In cases of human rights, BOTH efforts need to be pursued (moral persuasion AND legal).

It is easy for me to feel badly for the woman faced with such a situation until I recognize how I would feel about a woman whose 12 year old child is dying of cancer, is a match for life saving organ transplant (say bone marrow, partial liver or a kidney) and refuses to go through with it because of the risks. At that point the sympathy dries up. Why? Because even after all these years I am still unconsiously susceptible to cultural influences on the status of an unborn baby.
 
Kaninchen, I have no problem hearing the perspective of others as long as they are playing honest about who they are to begin with. You always are, so it is no surprise to anybody that we often disagree. Besides, your wit adds tons of charm to some overly serious threads!

I see it slightly different than JR and am not sure if I have it wrong, misunderstand him or he has it wrong. Abortion is as he says. It is not a religious issue, but a human rights issue. We can’t just agree to disagree.

Where i might differ with him is on moral issues that do NOT involve human rights. For example, if I were a catholic politician, I do not believe that I would be obliged (in this current culture) to support a ban on condoms and the pill or prosecution of those found to have committed fornication. These matters involve moral wrongs that are not negotiable and have the same negative effects on non-catholics as they do catholics, but the commission of them does not violate anyone’s human rights. In those cases, I DO believe that we must work towards a healthier culture by proposing virtue rather than imposing it by mere law. In cases of human rights, BOTH efforts need to be pursued (moral persuasion AND legal).

It is easy for me to feel badly for the woman faced with such a situation until I recognize how I would feel about a woman whose 12 year old child is dying of cancer, is a match for life saving organ transplant (say bone marrow, partial liver or a kidney) and refuses to go through with it because of the risks. At that point the sympathy dries up. Why? Because even after all these years I am still unconsiously susceptible to cultural influences on the status of an unborn baby.
Maunalman - I agree with you completely. When it comes to moral issues such as ABC and, say, adultery when internixed with politics, there is a clash. Were I elected to higher office in this nation, I could not support a ban on all things I find objectionable based on my religion. This doesn’t change the fact that they are wrong, and they are harmful. As an elected offical I would have to uphold the values of the nation. The values of this nation say you are free to do what you wish so long as you are not unjustly depriving another of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This is why I’ll likely never run for office and why I find myself, the closer I draw to Jesus, less and less concerned with politics. (praise God! LOL) I find myself increasingly concerned about those laws which are dictated by faith. This is why abortion, to me, is such a grave injustice. It violated God’s law and is a great infringement of human rights. (specifically, the right to life).

With this situation (the health of mother) I see it as a situation where you have two men in a room. One is knocked out for whatever reason, the other is alive. There is only enough oxygen to sustain them both for 3 hours, and rescue is 4 hours away. If one of them dies, the other will certainly make it. If neither die, both will likely die. There are ways to conserve oxygen, but it will likely not work especially since the unconscious man can’t employ light breathing. He can only do what he is currently doing. It would be immoral in this case to kill the unconscious man so that you can live. He can’t give his consent, so killing him is murder. shrug

Kaninchen - I know it’s catholic news, but I feel sad that you feel you have to apologize for your viewpoints. We may disagree, but I can tell you that I’m not going to get into any blazing rows with you. I am far more upset that you have been treated in such a way that you feels that your views are not welcomed here. I welcome them. Opposing views lead one to think.
 
I believe that as a Franciscan Brother of Life, whose duty it is to preach and teach the Gospel of Life I can shed some light on the question of political office and people of faith.

There is a major difference between: contraception, fornication and same sex-relations on one side and abortion, adultery and same-sex marriage on the other. For the sake of this thread, let’s just stick with abortion. But what we say about abortion carries over into the two other areas that I placed on that platter.

Contraception, fornication and same-sex activities are not violations of human rights. They violate the dignity of human sexuality. Abortion violates the rights of an innocent human being and by extension the rights of society. Everytime we violate the rights of any human being, we hurt ourselves and society at large.

A man or woman of faith in public office has a God-given mandate to protect the citizens under his or her care. Therefore, he is not acting contrary to his office when he votes against any law that violates the rights of human beings. The most fundamental rights of human beings are the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. However, we cannot protect those rights at the expense of an innocent party or parties.

It is not contrary to good government for the legislator or other public figure to vote contrary to the wishes of his constituency when his constituency is blind and does not see the harm in a particular legislation. He is doing the greatest good by them, even if they do not recognize it. It is the moral duty of every human being to choose the greatest good, not the lesser of two evils. When you choose the lesser of two evils, you’re still choosing evil. Man does not have the right to choose evil. This is very clear from the time of the Deutoronomic law. Only God has the power to decide when a life is to end. Man does not have that authority.

The Torah does not give man freedom to make this choice. In every case where man has engaged in some kind of conflict that resulted in the taking of a life, it was always in obedience to a command from God. It was God’s choice, not the choice of Israel. We see in the life of King David when he takes it into his own hands to set up his brother that God is not pleased and that David is repentant. Yet, there were other situations in which God leads the Jewish people into battle. Unless God leads someone into abortion, this may never happen and may never be allowed to happen.

I would appreciate it if you folks would stop referring to this as my position or the Catholic position. This is neither mine nor the Catholic Church’s position. It is the position revealed by God. When Catholics begin to use the correct language, maybe they can begin to understand the fullness of this revelation. As long as Catholics refer to this moral law as a Catholic law or as this person’s opinion or that person’s opinion, it remains very human and subject to human rejection, contradiction and misunderstanding. When we accept that it comes from God, then we will see that we cannot take an opposing view or compromise without serious eternal consequences.

I’m going to take issue here with Catholics, not non-Catholics. I believe that many Catholics are disingenious. There are many who prefer to see this teaching as a Catholic teaching or the opinion of some Catholics, because it leaves them wiggle room to disagree and not to have to justify themselves before conscience and God. That’s very convenient. But God knows when we’re playing games and when we’re honest. We can fool our brothers and sisters. We may even successfully fool ourselves, but we can never fool God.

It’s time that Catholics who believe that they are truly Catholic begin to speak as Catholics. God’s revelation is from God, not the Catholic Church or the person across from us. Those are just the means via which God communicates. The Jews in the OT did not attribute the message of the prophets to them. They knew that these messages came from God through Issaiah, Jeremiah, Ezequiel, etc. Why is this suddenly so difficult for Catholics to see what was so obvious to our Jewish anscestors? Truth comes from God, not from man. Man is the messenger. “Thou shall not kill” came from God. It did not come from Moses, Israel, the Apostles or the Catholic Church. I wish that Catholics had kept the old word for the Pentateuch. It may have been easier to understand. Torah, means Law, with a capital L. It is Divine Law. It is not up to human negotiation or up for human disagreement or opinions. God does not leave room for this. Jews, Muslims and Christians know this, because we are all sons and daughters of Abraham. And the Law was given to all of Abraham’s descendants. Therefore, there is no way out of this one. We can call it a Catholic rule all we like, but God will disagree, since the Torah preceeds the Catholic Church.

Deutoronomy is very clear, “You shall love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself.” DT 6.

An unborn child must be loved as we love ourselves and we must desire for him/her everything that we desire for ourselves. To do anything to the contrary is a violation of human rights. No state, no religion and no parent has the authority to violate those rights or to allow another to violate those rights. This is why we should not even be discussing whether or not this is morally acceptable. It is not a law that we created. Therefore, it’s not a law that we can change.

The most fundamental right of every human being is the right to be born. If we cannot guarrantee safe birth, we must at least guarrantee non-interference with God’s plan for parents and child.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Oh, it’s just that I had the ‘shudders’ about it about it at the time.

One of the things that Christians and Jews have disagreed about for the past couple of millennia is just this question - Judaism gives priority to the life of the mother (basically, until the baby’s head emerges). Could be one of the reasons for the popularity of Jewish doctors in olden times and why the Church used to get very cross, from time to time, about Christians going to them.
It is true that in Jewish history the preference for the life of the mother has always been the practice. I know, because I’m Jewish. However, the fact that our anscestors have held this practice does not mean that they were correct. Our anscestors did not understand the evolution of life as we do today. They worked with the knowledge that they had. They did not kow anything about living cells, human DNA, and reproductive biology. From their point of view a child was alive when they could see it. This was not until the child was delivered.

However, in Christian revelation we see something that had never been seen by our Jewish anscestors. We see Mary visiting Elizabeth and we listen to the dialogue between the two women. Elizabeth refers to Mary as the Mother of my Lord, thus acknoledging that the mass of tissue that Mary is carrying in her womb is the Lord. Let us not forget that Mary was less than one month pregnant when she visited Elizabeth. And already that blob of tissue which we question as being human was called Lord by Elizabeth.

As the dialogue continues, Elizabeth states that the child in her womb has leaped for joy. She acknoledges that this is a child in her womb and that this child can and does experience joy. She attributes to the child human emotions and behaviors. At this point Elizabeth is 24 weeks pregnant according to the Angel Gabriel.

From this point forward, we have more truth about human nature and conception being revealed to us. It is revealed to us that these are real human beings, even Jesus who is less than three weeks in gestational age. Yet, he is referred to a Lord. A Lord is not a blob of tissue. A Lord is fully alive.

To deny the life in an unborn child allows the Christian to deny the life of Elizabeth’s Lord in the womb of Mary when Mary is less than one month pregnant. There no way that a Christian politician can vote for abortion when he or she knows these truths. To do so it to make a mockery out of democrary and out of revelation. What he is saying is that democracy is an end in itself and must be protected even at the expense of human life. That’s an oxymoron. Democracy was conceived to protect human beings from abuse. This version of democracy flies in the face of the real defintion of democracy. It makes it an end and not a means to protect human beings and their human rights.

A vote for abortion also makes a mockery out of revelation. It says that Elizabeth’s statement was just her opinion, not divine revelation. Since it was just her opinion, the contrary opinion held by the constituency has equal merit and equal weight as divine revelation. This is heresy in any of the three monotheistic traditions. Divne revelation is never equal to or subject to the constituency of any society. No Jew, Muslim or Christian who is truly faithful will ever submit to this belief. Constituencies can be wrong and often are. The real sign of leadership is to choose the highest good, not the will of his constituents. If his constituents do not re-elect him in the next election, so be it. It’s their soul. If you vote against Truth, because you feel that your allegiance to your constituency allows you license to ignore Truth, then it’s your soul on the lline. “Thou shall have no other gods before me [even your constituency and your constitution].”

As a Jew, I can understand how this is difficult to wrap one’s head around it. It was difficult for me too before I became a Catholic. Graudally it not only made sense, but it was clear to me that it is not in conflict with the teachings of our forefathers and the prophets. On the contrary, it provides the piece of the puzzle that our forefathers were missing, because the full mystery of human life from the moment of conception had not yet been disclosed to them. This comes much later with our understanding of human life.

We are not in conflict with them. We have the rest of the story.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂 SHALOM!
 
Brother JR, thank you for your posts in this thread. They have the beauty of fine pearls.
 
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