Your daughter is having an abortion

[lifeisbeautiful]

Right now, I am trying to do my best to never have to face that situation with my daughters, but if I had a daughter or dil planning on having an abortion I would pray hard to ask the Holy Spirit to help me to figure out what to do, then I would do everything in my power to save my grandchild from being murdered. I wouldn’t stop at ANYTHING, as long as it is moral, I would do it. I wouldn’t stop at anything to save any of my kids’ lives either, if someone was planning on murdering them.

 

[Brightest_Star]

I have two sons, so if this happened to me it would be one of their girlfriends/wives.
If it was a wife, I would feel I had no place in the discussion. I could attempt to put in my offers of assistance, but I’m pretty sure most people would shut down the ‘nosy in-law’. It’d be between my son and his wife. Period. (And here’s where I pray that his religious education ‘took’).

If it was a girlfriend, and she was younger, I would pray they allowed me to talk to them. I would ask why, and I’m pretty sure that no matter what the reason they came up with (other than ‘I don’t want stretch marks!’) I could come up with a way I could help them.

I’d raise the child myself if I had to. Give them a place to live. Be a perminant babysitter. Pay for everything. Guarantee them the time to complete their education. Be a councellor or shrink or punching bag for blame.

That child would be my grandchild. I would literally do, and say anything - no matter how old I was.
I’d be so brokenhearted to lose a grandchild like that.

 

[King_Lazy]

I wouldn’t stop at ANYTHING, as long as it is moral, I would do it. I wouldn’t stop at anything to save any of my kids’ lives either, if someone was planning on murdering them.

Absolutely right.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Right now, I am trying to do my best to never have to face that situation with my daughters, but if I had a daughter or dil planning on having an abortion I would pray hard to ask the Holy Spirit to help me to figure out what to do, then I would do everything in my power to save my grandchild from being murdered. I wouldn’t stop at ANYTHING, as long as it is moral, I would do it. I wouldn’t stop at anything to save any of my kids’ lives either, if someone was planning on murdering them.

I have two sons, so if this happened to me it would be one of their girlfriends/wives.
If it was a wife, I would feel I had no place in the discussion. I could attempt to put in my offers of assistance, but I’m pretty sure most people would shut down the ‘nosy in-law’. It’d be between my son and his wife. Period. (And here’s where I pray that his religious education ‘took’).

If it was a girlfriend, and she was younger, I would pray they allowed me to talk to them. I would ask why, and I’m pretty sure that no matter what the reason they came up with (other than ‘I don’t want stretch marks!’) I could come up with a way I could help them.

I’d raise the child myself if I had to. Give them a place to live. Be a perminant babysitter. Pay for everything. Guarantee them the time to complete their education. Be a councellor or shrink or punching bag for blame.

That child would be my grandchild. I would literally do, and say anything - no matter how old I was.
I’d be so brokenhearted to lose a grandchild like that.

Both of these. To the nth degree.

 

[monicatholic]

If it was a wife, I would feel I had no place in the discussion. I could attempt to put in my offers of assistance, but I’m pretty sure most people would shut down the ‘nosy in-law’. It’d be between my son and his wife. Period.

in goodwill and peace, i disagree with this. a child’s life would be threatened. if they brought the discussion to me (as OP posited the question) i would intervene.

if they didnt, i dont know how i could know of it. but if i somehow did know of it, i would intervene.

in OP’s scenario, a child’s life, my grandchild, is being threatened.

 

[King_Lazy]

in goodwill and peace, i disagree with this. a child’s life would be threatened. if they brought the discussion to me (as OP posited the question) i would intervene.

if they didnt, i dont know how i could know of it. but if i somehow did know of it, i would intervene.

in OP’s scenario, a child’s life, my grandchild, is being threatened.

Indeed. If you heard your 2 year old grandchild was potentially going to be murdered, you wouldn’t just sit by and leave it up to the murderer to decide whether they will murder them or not. Same applies to a younger grandchild.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Indeed. If you heard your 2 year old grandchild was potentially going to be murdered, you wouldn’t just sit by and leave it up to the murderer to decide whether they will murder them or not. Same applies to a younger grandchild.

So what do you do?

 

[etmom]

Indeed. If you heard your 2 year old grandchild was potentially going to be murdered, you wouldn’t just sit by and leave it up to the murderer to decide whether they will murder them or not. Same applies to a younger grandchild.

Exactly. To do any less is to express that the unborn child doesnt have the same right to life as an already born child. There is no difference

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Exactly. To do any less is to express that the unborn child doesnt have the same right to life as an already born child. There is no difference

But it is different. If someone were planning on killing a two year old you could call the police, or even use physical force to stop them. Since you can’t in this case what do you do?

 

[ryecroft]

With all this talk of doing “anything” as long as it’s moral - how do you determine what is ‘moral’ in this situation - as I’m keenly aware as I’m sure most on here are that legal does not equal moral - but doesn’t the church say you can’t commit one sin in order to prevent another (it sounds more like ‘it is never justifiable for…’ but I don’t have the exact quote on me right now - I should with as much as I’ve seen it quoted on here -
I don’t think locking someone up until they deliver would be legal or moral.
God Bless
Rye

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

With all this talk of doing “anything” as long as it’s moral - how do you determine what is ‘moral’ in this situation - as I’m keenly aware as I’m sure most on here are that legal does not equal moral - but doesn’t the church say you can’t commit one sin in order to prevent another (it sounds more like ‘it is never justifiable for…’ but I don’t have the exact quote on me right now - I should with as much as I’ve seen it quoted on here -
I don’t think locking someone up until they deliver would be legal or moral.
God Bless
Rye

I would determine what is moral the same way I determine if anything else is moral… natural law, formation, ask a good orthodox priest or someone whose formation I trust if I am not sure… I don’t know what I would do, it depends on the situation, and I would pray hard first to ask the Holy Spirit to help me find the most loving and effective way of stopping this murder from happening, but I do know I would treat it like the situation that it is, someone in my family trying to murder someone else in my family.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I would determine what is moral the same way I determine if anything else is moral… natural law, formation, ask a good orthodox priest or someone whose formation I trust if I am not sure… I don’t know what I would do, it depends on the situation, and I would pray hard first to ask the Holy Spirit to help me find the most loving and effective way of stopping this murder from happening, but I do know I would treat it like the situation that it is, someone in my family trying to murder someone else in my family.

So you would physically intervene and/or try to turn the rest of the family against your daughter? Because that’s what I would do if my child attempted to murder another family member.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

So you would physically intervene and/or try to turn the rest of the family against your daughter? Because that’s what I would do if my child attempted to murder another family member.

I would pray for the Holy Spirit to help me figure out the most loving and effective way to stop my daughter (or DIL) from killing my grandchild. I don’t know what the actions would be for whatever the situation is, although I don’t exactly see the point of trying to turn the rest of the family against her (against the abortion, yes, but not against her), I would think there may be other more loving ways to try to stop her. What I would not do is sit back at any point and say it is not my place to try to save that life.

 

[admonsta]

I have three daughters and three sons. They are all still little, but when they are old enough, they will know fully the Catholic teaching about the sanctity of human life. I can only do what I can to guide them, and if they were under age and told me they were considering abortion, I’d prevent it. If they were over 18 I’d do as much talking as I could to convince them not to go through with it. I would offer to take the baby and raise it as mine.

I did this for my sister in law, but she didn’t accept my offer. She aborted my niece/nephew even though my brother in law didn’t want her to. They married a year later and are now devastated that they can’t carry a baby. I used to think it served them right, but now I feel sorry for them because I can’t judge how she felt at the time.

 

[DobryKatarzyna]

I really appreciated some of these responses, but others really bothered me.
Some of them make it sound like going through pregnancy and labor is trivial. It’s not just a matter of ‘convenience.’ If a woman didn’t want to be fat or if she didn’t want to have to buy a new prom dress, then yeah, that’s pretty weak. But women can be physically crippled and killed the pregnancy/labor. They can be emotionally traumatized, even to the point of PTSD. That’s absolutely not trivial, and if a woman like that were considering abortion, I wouldn’t blame her for two seconds. I’m not saying that abortion should be the solution to this particular problem. Not at all! Pain relief, competent, affordable medical care, and adoption are all better options that we should extend to women so that they can make the best choice. I’m not even saying that that’s the norm for pregnancy. I’m just saying that it’s not as simple as a matter of “convenience.”

I also reject the idea that abortion is “avoiding the consequences” of anything. Even if you avoid the consequence of a full pregnancy and labor, you still have that initial terror at the pregnancy, the serious discernment over what to do, and tearful conversations with loved ones. Abortion actually does change your priorities, your life plans, and your life in ways you wouldn’t expect. It’s an extremely negative consequence all its own.

By the way, I find the whole “accepting consequences” argument weak. There are all sorts of things that we do that put us at risk of this or that consequence. That does not mean we shouldn’t take steps to avoid or minimize them. I think if you want to advance the pro-life position, you should stick to the sanctity of life argument. That’s so much better. I have not had an abortion, but I have watched people go through it. My mother considered it when she was pregnant with me, and it’s an issue that goes to the core of my being.

 

[etmom]

I really appreciated some of these responses, but others really bothered me.

But women can be physically crippled and killed the pregnancy/labor.

What do you think is happening to the baby in the case of abortion? Of course it’s not trivial. But you are not avoiding serious consequences or death by choosing abortion. A fully human being dies.

For those who chose termination for a child with birth defects, they WANTED a baby. They were willing and able to go through pregnancy and birth. But not for this particular baby, not for this end result.

 

[DobryKatarzyna]

“What do you think is happening to the baby in the case of abortion? Of course it’s not trivial. But you are not avoiding serious consequences or death by choosing abortion. A fully human being dies.”

I’m not advocating abortion as a solution to these problems. I said as much later in my post. I’m just saying that if a woman has those pregnancy complications or is at high risk for them that I wouldn’t blame them for considering doing away with the pregnancy. I would put her situation under the category of “not guilty by legitimate fear of extreme physical/psychological torture.” It was a response to the idea that pregnancy/labor isn’t that bad and you should just deal with it. Yes, we all must “deal” with stuff in life, but how? I personally don’t think we take women’s pregnancy concerns seriously and don’t always treat pregnant women with the dignity that they deserve. Women don’t always have the health care and pain relief options that they need to carry a full-term pregnancy, especially if they are poor or minorities. THIS is a major contributor for women feeling the need for abort.

Anyway, back to the original post. I feel morally obligated to listen to the woman and let her know about all her options. I will do what I can to help her, but I also don’t want to enable her to make bad decisions. I have friends who have made more than their share of dumb decisions, and I can still love them and be part of their lives without being part of plans I find objectionable.

When my mother was pregnant with me, she had me tested for Down Syndrome. I know that if the test had come back positive, she probably would have aborted. She didn’t tell me, but I know. I have long since forgiven her and it wasn’t even a question. I think with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the acceptance and forgiveness just washes over you. I thought long and hard about the “What ifs,” but I can honestly say now that it doesn’t bother me, doesn’t scare me, and that it’s okay. Someday I’ll tell my mom what I know, but when the time is right.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

“What do you think is happening to the baby in the case of abortion? Of course it’s not trivial. But you are not avoiding serious consequences or death by choosing abortion. A fully human being dies.”

I’m not advocating abortion as a solution to these problems. I said as much later in my post. I’m just saying that if a woman has those pregnancy complications or is at high risk for them that I wouldn’t blame them for considering doing away with the pregnancy. I would put her situation under the category of “not guilty by legitimate fear of extreme physical/psychological torture.” It was a response to the idea that pregnancy/labor isn’t that bad and you should just deal with it. Yes, we all must “deal” with stuff in life, but how? I personally don’t think we take women’s pregnancy concerns seriously and don’t always treat pregnant women with the dignity that they deserve. Women don’t always have the health care and pain relief options that they need to carry a full-term pregnancy, especially if they are poor or minorities. THIS is a major contributor for women feeling the need for abort.

Anyway, back to the original post. I feel morally obligated to listen to the woman and let her know about all her options. I will do what I can to help her, but I also don’t want to enable her to make bad decisions. I have friends who have made more than their share of dumb decisions, and I can still love them and be part of their lives without being part of plans I find objectionable.

When my mother was pregnant with me, she had me tested for Down Syndrome. I know that if the test had come back positive, she probably would have aborted. She didn’t tell me, but I know. I have long since forgiven her and it wasn’t even a question. I think with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the acceptance and forgiveness just washes over you. I thought long and hard about the “What ifs,” but I can honestly say now that it doesn’t bother me, doesn’t scare me, and that it’s okay. Someday I’ll tell my mom what I know, but when the time is right.

The woman had pleasure in sexual intercourse. Getting pregnant actually feels good, and being pregnant is in NO WAY torture, not even for people who get quite ill with nausea/vomiting for a while (I had it for 3 mos. with the 1st, 4 mos. with the second). It may be uncomfortable for a while, it may be annoying in some aspects, but it’s hardly something that needs pain control! You are getting your ideas about pregnancy and childbirth from the wrong sources.

There is NEVER an excuse to abort a child. Never. That life was created through a union of sexual parts, it is God’s creation and we have NO RIGHT to kill it.

 

[DobryKatarzyna]

“The woman had pleasure in sexual intercourse.”

Not always. If the sexual experience was traumatic, or if she has a medical condition like vulvodynia, it might not have been pleasurable at all.

“Getting pregnant actually feels good.”

I’m sure it did for you and for many others. I never said that pregnancy never feels good or that there is nothing positive about it. I said that for some women, pregnancy can be traumatic.

“and being pregnant is in NO WAY torture, not even for people who get quite ill with nausea/vomiting for a while (I had it for 3 mos. with the 1st, 4 mos. with the second).”

I’m not talking about mild discomfort. I’m talking about serious pregnancy/labor complications, which can be toture, especially if you are in poor health to begin with or from the Third World.

“It may be uncomfortable for a while, it may be annoying in some aspects, but it’s hardly something that needs pain control!”

Labor often does, and yes, women can die of exhaustion without adequate pain control. I’m really, truly glad that you pregnancy was fun and exciting for you.

“You are getting your ideas about pregnancy and childbirth from the wrong sources.”

My sources are medical journals from Academic Search Complete and Ebsco Host and my OB/GYN. I also have friends and family who have gone through pregnancies that run the gamut from pure heaven to pure [fill in the blank.] Again, never said these were common occurences, just that they happen.

“There is NEVER an excuse to abort a child. Never. That life was created through a union of sexual parts, it is God’s creation and we have NO RIGHT to kill it.”

Where did I say that? I never once said anything of the kind and I strongly recommended finding abortion alternatives. My one and only point that I was trying to make was that women wanting to delay pregnancy and childbirth aren’t always doing so out of mere convenience. I advocated compassion for their feelings and their situation. That’s it. I never said that abortion was right, or that it should be encouraged, or anything of the sort.

I’m really sorry to start a fight here and to go off topic. I’ll shut up now. Carry on.

 

[ryecroft]

The woman had pleasure in sexual intercourse. Getting pregnant actually feels good, and being pregnant is in NO WAY torture, not even for people who get quite ill with nausea/vomiting for a while (I had it for 3 mos. with the 1st, 4 mos. with the second). It may be uncomfortable for a while, it may be annoying in some aspects, but it’s hardly something that needs pain control! You are getting your ideas about pregnancy and childbirth from the wrong sources.

There is NEVER an excuse to abort a child. Never. That life was created through a union of sexual parts, it is God’s creation and we have NO RIGHT to kill it.

There is no given that for every pregnancy that the woman had pleasure - even if she did you make pregnancy sound like a punishment (well the woman had pleasure - yes she used birth control - serves her right - since she decided to have sex her consequences are the pregnancy and she has to deal with them)-
Personally, and I know some of you know my story, but I wouldn’t be alive if we had continued our pregnancy - I was bleeding at a very high rate and my kidneys were going south and that’s because I tried to carry the pregnancy as long as I possibly could - and yes there are times it needs pain control. I don’t think that abortion should be used as birth control but if my daughter were in the situation I was in I would give her my full support (luckily my disease isn’t congenital)- none of us liked what had to be done but the choice (and yes this does occur - all be it not very often)- either I bleed out and I die loosing the pregnancy or I loose the pregnacy and either live or die - the doctors wern’t sure what my outcome would be at that point. I’m glad my mom doesn’t condemn me the way some on these forums had. She’s awfully glad to have a daughter still so is my dad and my husband definitely still happy he has a wife to come home to. I don’t agree with abortion on demand for any reason - but when a mother’s life is in danger - especially when there is no chance of the fetus making it -
God Bless
Rye