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Robert_in_SD
Guest
I don’t see any inconsistency whatsoever between my faith and the Golden Rule. (Mt 7:12) Why do you assume there is some conflict? Just asking…
Peace,
Robert
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Peace,
Robert
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Robert_in_SD
Guest
Treating others as you would want to be treated is an ethic of reciprocity. In other words, live your life in a manner that you do not treat people in a way that you would dislike being treated. However, christianity goes much further in its command to not only avoid acting poorly towards others, but to affirmatively love not just your neighbor but your enemy as well. This goes above and beyond the Golden Rule in its demands upon the Christian. The Golden Rule is, to put it one way, the bare minimum.I did not say faith was against being kind and respectful.I am getting the impression you think I am trying to say that though.
What made it superior? This is what I am not getting a clear idea about from anyone.
Just my two cents. :twocents:
Peace,
Robert
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
Catholicism (indeed all of Christianity) has two great commandments: 1. love God, 2. love your neighbor as yourself for the love of God.
So it puts doing good to others in the context of serving God. Our kindness to others is a way in which we love God and it brings us closer to Him as well as to others.
So it puts doing good to others in the context of serving God. Our kindness to others is a way in which we love God and it brings us closer to Him as well as to others.
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rinnie
Guest
Faith vs the golden rule. Thats like putting God vs God. Why its the same outcome.
The golden rule says to treat others the way you want to be treated. I don’t think any Faith, Catholic, Protestant, etc would disagree with this.
If you have faith in God you obey the Golden rule. I think for once all Walks of Faith that walk together with God agree with me on this.
Treat eachother the way you want to be treated. Any Religion out there disagree with that one.
The golden rule says to treat others the way you want to be treated. I don’t think any Faith, Catholic, Protestant, etc would disagree with this.
If you have faith in God you obey the Golden rule. I think for once all Walks of Faith that walk together with God agree with me on this.
Treat eachother the way you want to be treated. Any Religion out there disagree with that one.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I’m trying to see how belief in God enables a person to treat others with respect and kindness more so than a person lacking belief. I’m just struggling to find a way to ask about things I don’t know. I don’t understand the things said like grace but can read explainations about it. I don’t understand how simply believing in God would make my ability to do this somehow more enhanced. That’s what I am looking for in this thread, things I can not do as a non believer in these ways that a believer can do.
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PatThompson
Guest
Nothing against you, StrawberryJam or Agnostics/Atheists, but you’re not going to find a very satisfying or new conversation here along these lines, I fear.
Are you looking for someone to say “Religious people focus on original sin, the fear of Hell and damnation, and that’s why they treat others with respect”?
Then others can mention Mother Teresa and all the good work she did, and others can mention the long list of Atheists that did good work for others without G-d looking over their shoulder, judging them… It has been repeated here again and again in thread after thread.
I’ll do some research and post some links here, as I understand the rules for the ‘Non-Catholic Religions’ section are a bit more lax.
Are you looking for someone to say “Religious people focus on original sin, the fear of Hell and damnation, and that’s why they treat others with respect”?
Then others can mention Mother Teresa and all the good work she did, and others can mention the long list of Atheists that did good work for others without G-d looking over their shoulder, judging them… It has been repeated here again and again in thread after thread.
I’ll do some research and post some links here, as I understand the rules for the ‘Non-Catholic Religions’ section are a bit more lax.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Hi Pat,
Since I know not all individuals represent a group or even a denomination/religion/lack of, I was looking for individual’s thoughts about this. I am trying to see how in my life, that belief in God would change my version of golden rule at all. Maybe it would enhance it, but I don’t see how. It’s possible in some ways it could do the opposite too.
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musicality
Guest
The belief in God, gives me an extra motivation to do the right thing… If I did not believe in God, who would I ultimately be accountable to? Myself? Society?
Because I know how much God loved me to give me this life, I choose to reciprocate that love to others in all I do. Certainly, I fail at this more often than I’d like to admit, but that does not change the fact that I am held accountable by a higher power.
My belief in God also gives me the resources necessary to determine whether my actions towards others are acceptable or not. Through the teachings of Christ we see that many times the right thing to do goes against societal expectations of how we should treat other people. Christ was a rebel himself, often challenging the people of Israel.
His perfect example of love is the example that Christians try to follow in their daily life…
I hope this helps!
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geometer
Guest
If you know anything at all about kindness you know God that much. The meaning of the name god is loving kindness, God is kindness and mercy. John simply said God is love, in response to the more traditional, God is. It is said of God that “God is” because his perfection is beyond description.
But anyway, He is everpresent, empowering love with grace. Receiving grace is having your love empowered. If you really believe love, what you intend with love is heard by God. If someone breaks bad in you life, remember at that moment the loving respect that you have known for him, and silently say to God what needs be done.
Loving your enemy is the secret to learning miraculous performance. Love is appropriate, and miracles always occur with complete propriety…
Keep looking up…
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StrawberryJam
Guest
When christians talk about loving their enemies, why do they think that is strictly a christian quality? I’m thinking of just one thing right now that I consider loving an enemy that happened to my family late last year. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. The teenager who killed her asked to come to the funeral, was very remorseful of what he had done. Our family was in shock and devastated, confused and angry but when we saw how that teenager was hurting so much also we were able to forgive him. Well, most of us anyway.
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GodIsGracious
Guest
I think the thing that non-religious people may not understand is the graces that those of us with faith have and receive.When christians talk about loving their enemies, why do they think that is strictly a christian quality? I’m thinking of just one thing right now that I consider loving an enemy that happened to my family late last year. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. The teenager who killed her asked to come to the funeral, was very remorseful of what he had done. Our family was in shock and devastated, confused and angry but when we saw how that teenager was hurting so much also we were able to forgive him. Well, most of us anyway.
Kindness, respect, treating others as how we wish to be treated, love, etc. all those good qualities and attributes are not exclusive to people who have faith or have a religion. And I don’t think that anyone here is really saying that. At least I don’t get that impression.
I, personally, don’t view “love your enemies” as an exclusive Christian quality. Some people might believe this, but I would venture to say they were incorrect in their thinking.
I’ve been thinking about this thread and wondering how I could explain grace to you. It’s tough because even though I was lapsed for nearly 2 decades, I did grow up in the Catholic church and so grace was just sort of understood, so to speak. But I’m finding out that after coming back I still have a lot to learn about it. The only thing I can do right now is refer to the Catechism of the Catholic church.
Here is an excerpt:
That whole page referenced in the CCC is on “Grace.” And I’m sure it will raise more questions with you.
Part of what helps a Catholic to live by the “golden rule” is that we look to Christ as our role model. I think that’s why there’s that whole, “What would Jesus do?” thing. I don’t know where that originated from, but it’s essentially what I’m talking about.
It is what helps us to persevere in the face of our trials, when times are tough, when it looks like or feels like God has abandoned us. Especially in particular situations. Grace works instantly. Grace works slowly.
ah ha! I just thought of two examples, I will only mention one.
Grace, a free gift from God to me, is what helped me to forgive my father when he left me and my mom (leaving her a single mother) for nearly 38 years. When we reconnected it was NOT the lovey dovey 30 minute Hallmark Moments you see on T.V. I promise you it wasn’t. Grace is what softened my heart to forgiveness and helped remind that if I had done something so horrible and I had repented I’d want forgiveness from others, so I should do the same in return. (“Do unto others [forgive them] as they would do unto you [forgive you.]”) I hadn’t even come back to the Catholic church at that time. But it was, truly, by God’s special grace that I was able to forgive my father. It was God’s grace (probably more like His hand over my mouth!) that I did not tell an old man off everything I wanted to say - much of which would probably kill him. It is God’s grace that reminds me of the forgiveness I had already imparted and so not to hold against that man what he did, or did not, do.
I see God’s grace working in people who don’t realize it. Because I believe that from God all good things come, the situation you described is God’s very special grace working, in both the teenager who killed your cousin and your family’s forgiveness of him/her.
But to get to your point: there are plenty of people who live by the Golden Rule but aren’t religious or even faithful. When we add in the graces we receive through the sacraments and by asking, it helps us to push beyond what we thought we could cope.
Faith works in conjunction with the Golden Rule. They’re not mutually exclusive, although they can be found exclusively in individuals.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I think I have learned a lot here on this thread. GodisGracious, your explaination was very understandable to me. I’m trying to understand these differences we have. And, you are right I do think I will have a lot more questions. Just last night I came up with a list of them.
I just hope asking about them won’t be tiring people out.
I hope everyone is having a good weekend so far!
I just hope asking about them won’t be tiring people out.I hope everyone is having a good weekend so far!
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
I’m seeking out reasons why people of faith consider their faith superior to the Golden Rule.
Any reasons at all.
The Golden Rule is impossible. Believing a list of doctrines OTOH is much easier. To live by the GR seems to require far greater spiritual maturity than to give intellectual assent to propositions stating or denying that X is the case. How many people live by the “Little Way” of Ste. Therese ? That is a version of the GR. Almost certainly far fewer than are able to satisfy tests of orthodoxy
But what do you think ?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Not famillar with who St. Therese is, or the “Little Way”. But, if it is a version of the golden rule, I will search her on the site.The Golden Rule is impossible. Believing a list of doctrines OTOH is much easier. To live by the GR seems to require far greater spiritual maturity than to give intellectual assent to propositions stating or denying that X is the case. How many people live by the “Little Way” of Ste. Therese ? That is a version of the GR. Almost certainly far fewer than are able to satisfy tests of orthodoxy
But what do you think ?
I agree the golden rule is impossible, but I will still use that as my guide and it’s urgent to me because I don’t believe there is a god who hears prayers to help, and I don’t believe things work out in an afterlife. So now is the time, there is no other to do this work in.
I hope your question was not a test!
Not good at those.
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thirdn6
Guest
What makes it superior? Let me think…
It’s like a race… we have rewards at the end.
By following the Golden Rule we’re able to focus better on the second commandment, that is, to love one another… and we have great rewards in heaven.
We don’t easily quit on it.
We are reminded after each Mass in one way or another.
That helps?
It’s like a race… we have rewards at the end.
By following the Golden Rule we’re able to focus better on the second commandment, that is, to love one another… and we have great rewards in heaven.
We don’t easily quit on it.
We are reminded after each Mass in one way or another.
That helps?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
That the action is reward on it’s own for me, and not expecting any other kind I think you did help me understand another difference between belief and non belief.
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Dale_M
Guest
Strawberry Jam, I wonder if your question seeks to reduce Christianity to its barest essentials by removing all of the faith. By focusing on the Golden Rule, the measure of a person would be how good s/he is and would be known to everyone by how s/he treats others.
I understand the appeal of that perspective, although I would select Jesus’ saying that the two greatest commandments are to love God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourself. This saying is very similar to the Golden Rule, it just is the saying which speaks to me.
I understand the appeal of that perspective, although I would select Jesus’ saying that the two greatest commandments are to love God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourself. This saying is very similar to the Golden Rule, it just is the saying which speaks to me.
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rinnie
Guest
Here is something that you can see for yourself also. God says to do to other’s as you would want them to do to you. Now even if you don’t totally believe in God or not at all his commandments work, Which in turn seeing that can bring you faith in a different way.
Here is an example someone hurts very badly you and your sister . Now you hold on to your anger, and hate and swear to get even. First of all it either keeps the grudge going back and forth forever, or getting hurt continues forever.
Now your sister on the other hand says I am going to forgive that person and move on with my life. Now in this world it appears you let the offender off the hook. But actually you didn’t. Now your sister moves on with her life, is happy, has peace, learns to let go. Now someday you hurt someone they refuse to forgive you. But you sister did the same by was forgive because she has forgiven others,
See what happens is you hold on to anger hate and resentment it eats you up like a cancer. It is in your life and becomes the core of everything you do. You end up very very unhappy, anxiety’s take over, fears, You become a miserable person.
But when you let go, and be kind, you not only make those around you better People, you get to enjoy the rewards also. A quiet, peaceful happy contented home.
That’s when you find out anything that God has commanded you to do, is not for him, Its for YOU. You may at first think you are pleasing him, but its you who are happy.
That is another way that you can SEE GOD. Know that he exists. Look at people today that have fear, of everything. If you have true faith, and live by the goldern rule, you fear is short, and like a grudge let go of. More peace to enjoy life. Its actually as you get older and learn another gift that you never realized.
Here is an example someone hurts very badly you and your sister . Now you hold on to your anger, and hate and swear to get even. First of all it either keeps the grudge going back and forth forever, or getting hurt continues forever.
Now your sister on the other hand says I am going to forgive that person and move on with my life. Now in this world it appears you let the offender off the hook. But actually you didn’t. Now your sister moves on with her life, is happy, has peace, learns to let go. Now someday you hurt someone they refuse to forgive you. But you sister did the same by was forgive because she has forgiven others,
See what happens is you hold on to anger hate and resentment it eats you up like a cancer. It is in your life and becomes the core of everything you do. You end up very very unhappy, anxiety’s take over, fears, You become a miserable person.
But when you let go, and be kind, you not only make those around you better People, you get to enjoy the rewards also. A quiet, peaceful happy contented home.
That’s when you find out anything that God has commanded you to do, is not for him, Its for YOU. You may at first think you are pleasing him, but its you who are happy.
That is another way that you can SEE GOD. Know that he exists. Look at people today that have fear, of everything. If you have true faith, and live by the goldern rule, you fear is short, and like a grudge let go of. More peace to enjoy life. Its actually as you get older and learn another gift that you never realized.
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Robert_in_SD
Guest
I don’t understand why you think the GR is impossible? Are you saying that it’s impossible in any instance to treat someone as you would like to be treated; or do you mean that it is impossible to always follow the GR on every single occasion? With respect to the former, I disagree. I think it is quite possible to try to live the GR and to accomplish that bit of charity. As for the latter, I think it is impossible for human beings to always, and at all times, live according to the GR because - yes we are human and yes we make mistakes, get upset, get our feelings hurt and tend to strike out at those around us in our worst moments. That’s just part of the human condition, and it underscores our need for God.Not famillar with who St. Therese is, or the “Little Way”. But, if it is a version of the golden rule, I will search her on the site.
I agree the golden rule is impossible, but I will still use that as my guide and it’s urgent to me because I don’t believe there is a god who hears prayers to help, and I don’t believe things work out in an afterlife. So now is the time, there is no other to do this work in.
I hope your question was not a test!
As for your stated unbelief… as long as you are seeking truth there is hope.
Peace,
Robert
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I agree with Gottle of Geer that it is impossible to do. We are only human after all.
But even a human can see how this is not good in any way or means, in the real way- it is never enough for this bloodthirsty god to end this “plan” with all this suffering, that for him is never enough.
More blood.
I don’t like this God and he scares me.
I like things Jesus said, but they were not that original really.
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