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SSPXwannaB
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what do you think of this organization? thank you.
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EmperorNapoleon
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My experiences with Jesuits have always been positive. In my experience, they focus more on intellectual development and philosophy than spirituality but I’ve always been around them in secular settings.
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Yours_Truly
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A great Order that has unfortunatley become corrupted.
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WhollyRoamin
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It’s not fair to totally generalize. But I’ll say this charitably: the Jesuits have a proud history and would be well served to revive it.
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SSPXwannaB
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I feel similarly. When I read of their history I thought that they were awesome. But when I see what some of them stand for today, and the state of a Jesuit University I attended I am disappointed.
Are there dif’t factions (left and right)?
I must admit that they always seem disciplined and are always smarter than myself (and I am smarter than 90% of Americans academically speaking).
What other orders tend to be leftist? Others that tend to Traditionalism?
Are there dif’t factions (left and right)?
I must admit that they always seem disciplined and are always smarter than myself (and I am smarter than 90% of Americans academically speaking).
What other orders tend to be leftist? Others that tend to Traditionalism?
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WhollyRoamin
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There are tradition-minded Jesuits, but I don’t know of any that offer the TLM or promote a traditional Catholic sprituality. They are certainly not widespread.
If you have an interest in traditional orders, there are only a few in the USA.
The Benedictines of Clear Creek outside of Tulsa OK (clearcreekmonks.org/) and the Carmelites in Wyoming (carmelitemonks.org/) come to mind. There are others, but those are the first two off the top of my head.
There is a Benedcitine convent for women interested in a traditional religious life near Kansas City. (benedictinesofmary.org/)
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Catholic1954
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I agree. They seem to have lost their orginal focus, and appear to me to be more of the world than apart from it. Of course Fr. Mitch on EWTN is a Jesuit so they aren’t totally a lost cause!
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SSPXwannaB
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WhollyRoamin
can it then be said that Carmelites and Benedictines are generally more conservative?
can it then be said that Carmelites and Benedictines are generally more conservative?
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allhers
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In my experience they are awesome…
Father Mitchell C. Pacwa, S.J., Senior Fellow of the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, is a Jesuit priest and President and Founder of Ignatius Productions, world renowned lecturer, spiritual director for over fifty Holy Land pilgrimages, and EWTN host of television and radio shows.
An accomplished biblical scholar and apologist, Father Pacwa, S.J. earned his Ph.D. in Old Testament from Vanderbilt University. He also holds a Master of Divinity and S.T.B. from the Jesuit School of Theology at Loyola University. He speaks 12 languages, including Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, and Koine Greek.
(He’s an author who) … established Ignatius Productions, a Catholic media production apostolate, in the year 2000, whose mission is to teach people the scriptures, educate Catholics about their Faith, and promote unity and understanding within the Mystical Body of Christ.
From his website: archive.salvationhistory.com/mission/staff/frpacwabio.cfm.htm
Father Mitchell C. Pacwa, S.J., Senior Fellow of the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, is a Jesuit priest and President and Founder of Ignatius Productions, world renowned lecturer, spiritual director for over fifty Holy Land pilgrimages, and EWTN host of television and radio shows.
An accomplished biblical scholar and apologist, Father Pacwa, S.J. earned his Ph.D. in Old Testament from Vanderbilt University. He also holds a Master of Divinity and S.T.B. from the Jesuit School of Theology at Loyola University. He speaks 12 languages, including Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, and Koine Greek.
(He’s an author who) … established Ignatius Productions, a Catholic media production apostolate, in the year 2000, whose mission is to teach people the scriptures, educate Catholics about their Faith, and promote unity and understanding within the Mystical Body of Christ.
From his website: archive.salvationhistory.com/mission/staff/frpacwabio.cfm.htm
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Jacafamala
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Well I’m not WRC, but… the Carmelites? No, they’re too strict to be liberals. The Benedictines? On the whole I really don’t know, but I’ve been to a Benedictine Priory in Vermont that was crazy liberal. Crazy. Liberal. Crazy.
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Fidelia
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I went to a Jesuit University, and my experiences while there brought me back to the Church.
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roanoker
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Jacafamala, EVERTYTHING in Vermont is crazy liberal! And I mean EVERYTHING! Roanoker
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WhollyRoamin
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Conservative/Liberal aren’t very functional terms when talking about how an Order behaves. If you’re talking about spirituality, I’d say that each Order is dedicated to the work and adoration of the Lord. But individual communities can take on a tenor that is very unique.
I know two Benedictine Abbeys that are close to my house. They are seperate communities, though both Benedictine. One has a very 60’s modern feeling to the Abbey Church and its grounds, though they are very orthodox (Novus Ordo) monks. Another has one of the greatest minor Basilicas in the United States, and the community drips with the rich treasures of history. But the community engages in a lot of the “interfaith” mumbo jumbo and the minor seminary is not even strongly supported by its local Bishop. Still, they are both Benedictine Abbeys. Which is more conservative? Neither one prays the traditional Divine Office and neither one offers the traditional Mass. AFAIK, the only Benedictines to pray the traditional Liturgy of the Hours is the Clear Creek Monks near Tulsa.
Don’t know much about the Carmeilites. Sorry. Other than the fact that I know that Wyoming friary exists, has a website, sends me fundraising letters and are a traditional Catholic community (traditional in the Tridentine sense of the term, not in the Catholic Answers Forums sense of the term…), I don’t know anything about the Carmelite order or that particular Carmelite friary or any other particular Carmelite friary.
It is not a good measure to call someone conservative/liberal to measure the community. Even the SSPX is not “conservative” in the modern sense of the word. They are traditional, but I would hesitate to call them conservative. Which is an intellectual compliment to them.
I know two Benedictine Abbeys that are close to my house. They are seperate communities, though both Benedictine. One has a very 60’s modern feeling to the Abbey Church and its grounds, though they are very orthodox (Novus Ordo) monks. Another has one of the greatest minor Basilicas in the United States, and the community drips with the rich treasures of history. But the community engages in a lot of the “interfaith” mumbo jumbo and the minor seminary is not even strongly supported by its local Bishop. Still, they are both Benedictine Abbeys. Which is more conservative? Neither one prays the traditional Divine Office and neither one offers the traditional Mass. AFAIK, the only Benedictines to pray the traditional Liturgy of the Hours is the Clear Creek Monks near Tulsa.
Don’t know much about the Carmeilites. Sorry. Other than the fact that I know that Wyoming friary exists, has a website, sends me fundraising letters and are a traditional Catholic community (traditional in the Tridentine sense of the term, not in the Catholic Answers Forums sense of the term…), I don’t know anything about the Carmelite order or that particular Carmelite friary or any other particular Carmelite friary.
It is not a good measure to call someone conservative/liberal to measure the community. Even the SSPX is not “conservative” in the modern sense of the word. They are traditional, but I would hesitate to call them conservative. Which is an intellectual compliment to them.
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JanetF
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Me TOO!!!
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hamburglar
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An order that has traditionally been wonderful. However, modern Jesuits are often essentially heretics. The Jesuits, once attracting intensely spiritual Catholics wishing to live out the mission of St. Ignatius of Loyola, now seems to attract liberals.
If you want a good look at the tragedy of the modern Jesuit order, just look at their “Catholic” universities.
If you want a good look at the tragedy of the modern Jesuit order, just look at their “Catholic” universities.
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WhollyRoamin
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:tsktsk:
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Chatter163
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And Fr. Kenneth Baker. And Fr. Joseph Fessio. And Fr. William Stout.
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SSPXwannaB
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I have seen some disturbing unorthodox positions taken by some Jesuits, and attended a Jesuit University which was awash in support for paganism. I was also shocked to find ‘flaming’ homosexual Priests that never wore their Roman collar. But as I stated earlier they are always brilliantly smart, and I used to attend a conservative Catholic Church (an anomaly in urban California) that had a seemingly repectable Jesuit from India.
WhollyRoamin, have too respectfully disagree w/ you:
con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
WhollyRoamin, have too respectfully disagree w/ you:
con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
- Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
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WhollyRoamin
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A number of Jesuit universities are not doing a good job of enforcing orthodoxy, I agree. But I’d say that such a situation is not unique to the Jesuits. A good number of diocesean priests have also gone astray. And I know some fully faithful Franciscians and some Franciscians that St. Francis himself would admonish.
As for the Jesuits, their Order is synonymous with academia and has a corresponding tenor to their work. Colleges, in genral, are awash in paganism. As far as your shock over homosexual priests: again, not unique to the Jesuits. So be prepared to be shocked about that for the rest of your life, even if you never meet another Jesuit.
Jesuit attire is a different topic altogether. They have a distinct style of cassock that was so popular that priests of all kinds of orders (or even outside of an order) adopted it for their own use. images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=jesuit%20cassock&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi BUT. Jesuits have a particular dress code that is bigger than the cassock or roman collar. jesuit.org/FAQs/default.aspx
Qo Jesuits have a formal habit?
Indeed, if clerical attire would be a big distraction to whatever the work they are doing at the time, they are bound to not wear a roman collar. I’m not saying that’s what happened in your disillusioning contact with a Jesuit, just that they always won’t be dressed to suit your expectations.
Thank you, but I know what “conservative” means. I also know how it’s used, how its misued and how its abused. The truth is that it’s not a very useful term here. “Favoring traditional view and values” certainly depends on how far back you’re willing to study tradition (and Tradition). A good number of people who proclaim themselves to be conservative on some subject or another don’t have the foggiest idea of what, exactly, they are conserving. “Tending to oppose change” is inherent to Catholicism except where it’s not. And it is not particular to any Catholic Order, Rule, Abbey or Friary. They all change. They all stay the same. And it’s not a matter of extent, just subject. Even the Carthusians have changed over the years-- and they’re about as isolated from the world as a reclusive order can be!
So respectfully, I maintain my position.
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Michaelo
Guest
I currently attend a Jesuit high school and love its emphasis on social justice. 
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