Your kid getting bullied at school

[pensmama87]

Yes, we did.

Your job as a parent is to protect your child. To ensure their safety and to teach them how to gain heaven and be successful in life. This whole thing started because someone said that the way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them physically. That is false. That is dangerous, and that is not what we should tell our children. YOU need to protect your child, not send them off into battle at the playground. I am still amazed by the idea that you say the schools and parents do not do anything. It is as if you are saying “I won’t even try.” But encouraging your kid to physically hit and damage another human when you wont even talk to a parent in defense of your child is not the example we should show them. And physicality plays into it. The biggest baddest kid is never the one being bullied. IF talking to the parents does not solve it, why not just start beating it into the parents. Fight them. That is what you expect your kid to do?

Come on. No one is saying that self defense is wrong, only that it is not the go to answer for a bully, or any situation at all.

I agree with this. Sometimes parents and schools don’t do anything, or a child gets that message (that was the message I got - “this is your fault this happened” or “you reacted the wrong way so it’s your fault it continues.” I highly doubt this is what my parents or teachers intended to say to me, but it’s what I heard.) So when it continued, and after standing up for myself only to have that NOT work (I got in trouble instead, or it only made the bullying worse), I found alternative ways to deal: I bullied other children to try and improve my social standing, I acted out in various ways, I developed codependent tendencies so that people would like me, I developed an eating disorder as a coping mechanism.

Children shouldn’t have to endure this kind of treatment and feel like it’s up to them to fix it (and that it’s their fault if it doesn’t go away). Sometimes it doesn’t get fixed by the people who should fix it, but as parents we should make sure we’re doing everything we can to teach our children to not be bullies, and how to handle one in an appropriate way. And sometimes, the appropriate thing to do is leave the situation. That’s not a victory for the bully, and it’s not a “surrender” by the victim.

I will not encourage my children to react violently. To respond physically if necessary for self-defense, yes. But not to add violence to violence.

 

[Captain_America]

My mother is a 5th grade teacher and she has relayed to me many times that when she confront a parents about their child’s bad behavior they usually just shrug it off.

This is amazing. If I learned this, my kid would be dealt with. . . considerably!

 

[captainrick]

It is funny that in all the school sites or curriculum that deal with bullying. They never mention physically fighting back? If it works so well why not? If it is how one becomes an honest upright person, why do we not encourage our little johnnys to go out and punch in the face the first bully they find? Because not only is it dangerous. It is wrong.

I know that we love to say “back in my day” and romanticize things to be some kind of norman rockwell kind of thing. But the fact is that there were murders at schools “in your day” there were shootings. There were accidental deaths involving an innocent fight when a skull got cracked open. You just were not aware of this. That a punch thrown at you or a punch you took did not result in a life ending brain injury is fortunate. Because it happens. And when you become trained in a self defense martial art worth anything they will tell you that it is a dangerous thing. They will tell you that you have a responsibility to resolve the situation without force. And they will tell you that your actions may result in horrible consequences.
In kempo we have a saying. “Distance is your best friend.” Seeking out and engaging a bully physically is the LAST resort.

Bullying should not be tolerated. At all. By schools or society. Authorities need to be given the tools and information to effectively help the victims and stop the bullys.

Any parent that tells a child that fighting is how you earn respect of a bully is endangering their child.

I guess I’m not explaining my experience clearly enough – here’s what would happen:

1. Two or three bullies knock me down
2. I get up and run.
3. They catch me (I’m fat and slow)
4. They knock me down again and start punching me.
5. Instead of just lying there, I punch back.
6. They learn to leave me alone – they prefer to just beat on smeone while he lies there and cries, then laugh at him.

Kempo? Great, I agree! As a firearms instructor I teach that the best defense is to GET OUT of there if attacked. My son is a law enforcement officer who reaches defensive tactics. Defending oneself can get physical. Shouldn’t we all be capable of defending ourselves from attackers if we can’t put distance between us?

I never tracked down bullies and beat them up for revenge – I simply learned to hit back if I couldn’t get away.

 

[travissbeloved]

I guess I’m not explaining my experience clearly enough – here’s what would happen:

1. Two or three bullies knock me down
2. I get up and run.
3. They catch me (I’m fat and slow)
4. They knock me down again and start punching me.
5. Instead of just lying there, I punch back.
6. They learn to leave me alone – they prefer to just beat on smeone while he lies there and cries, then laugh at him.

Kempo? Great, I agree! As a firearms instructor I teach that the best defense is to GET OUT of there if attacked. My son is a law enforcement officer who reaches defensive tactics. Defending oneself can get physical. Shouldn’t we all be capable of defending ourselves from attackers if we can’t put distance between us?

I never tracked down bullies and beat them up for revenge – I simply learned to hit back if I couldn’t get away.

This is what I’m trying to say as well. (Obviously not as successfully though) I’m not saying kids should go around always hitting and punching each other but they should be allowed to fight back.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I guess I’m not explaining my experience clearly enough – here’s what would happen:

1. Two or three bullies knock me down
2. I get up and run.
3. They catch me (I’m fat and slow)
4. They knock me down again and start punching me.
5. Instead of just lying there, I punch back.
6. They learn to leave me alone – they prefer to just beat on smeone while he lies there and cries, then laugh at him.

Kempo? Great, I agree! As a firearms instructor I teach that the best defense is to GET OUT of there if attacked. My son is a law enforcement officer who reaches defensive tactics. Defending oneself can get physical. Shouldn’t we all be capable of defending ourselves from attackers if we can’t put distance between us?

I never tracked down bullies and beat them up for revenge – I simply learned to hit back if I couldn’t get away.

You both did a horrible job of expressing a point of view that I would agree with. Self defense is not only a right but in some instances a moral obligation. But that is not what you said to start out. You posted on a thread about bullying that you just beat them up and problem solved. Almost as if it were some sort of prideful thing. When in fact you should be embarrassed. You should be embarrassed that it came to that. That you were not taught how to correctly handle the situation. It should have included the phrase “last resort” But it didn’t and then you and travissbeloved and captain america started talking about 'in my day" and manliness grunt grunt grunt. So you can see how it looked as if you are advocating for physical violence as the primary response.

But here I speak directly to you captainrick:

That you are a firearms instructor makes your neglect much more alarming. Any firearms instructor worth his spit knows just how idiotic that sounded. Shame on you and I hope you use better care when teaching firearm classes. If self defense is employed then it is a failure of all parties. If someone cannot grasp the lethal and seriousness of force then I don’t want you next to me on the firing range. I will not make that assumption about your son in law who I will charitable assume makes his point about self defense in a clearer and less egotistical way. It is quite dangerous to go around talking about how in the old days we settled it john wayne style in the yard when teaching ANY kind of self defense. Because any kind of self defense CAN be lethal. even in the school yard. And that is a heavy burden.

Not only that but with self defense comes the responsibility of good judgement and emotional stability. Assessing the situation with logic, morality, and seriousness. These are traits that most adults do not possess. Yet here we expect a kid to make a rational judgement in the heat of a moment.

There is no reason a child of any age should be put in the position of using force. To have that situation is a failure of that child, a school, law enforcement, other adults, and the parents of both bully and victim. That you personally did not have that protection growing up is not a point of machismo pride, but rather a commentary on a failed society.

Like it or not in this day and age you could be held liable for your child beating up a bully. They could imprison you, or take away your house. Especially if a death resulted. Even something as accidental as the bully falling on a rock and dying. We can go round and round about the ridiculousness about our litigious society but it ultimately is just one more reason in a LONG line of reasons that it be ingrained that violence in the LAST option. not the “best way to handle a bully”

And if I as an adult found all (capts and traviss’) post hard to understand about it being the Last and only option left on the table, imagine a child listening to what mommy and daddy are saying and teaching. “Be a man and fight back” is a form of bullying in itself. And is in no way parental or Holy.

And Captinrick, I hope you find some way to impress that idea upon those whom you instruct. It is your moral obligation to do so.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

1. They learn to leave me alone – they prefer to just beat on smeone while he lies there and cries, then laugh at him.

Though I tend to agree with the moral idea of ALL 6 points you made here. I struggle with number 6 as a Catholic.
Do we really want to teach our kids to be strong so the bullies will move on to the weak? Is that what we are called to do. Deflect injustice to the weakest of the world by making sure we are the strongest?

honestly it is a struggle within me. Because I can see both sides of this idea.

 

[travissbeloved]

You both did a horrible job of expressing a point of view that I would agree with. Self defense is not only a right but in some instances a moral obligation. But that is not what you said to start out. You posted on a thread about bullying that you just beat them up and problem solved. Almost as if it were some sort of prideful thing. When in fact you should be embarrassed. You should be embarrassed that it came to that. That you were not taught how to correctly handle the situation. It should have included the phrase “last resort” But it didn’t and then you and travissbeloved and captain america started talking about 'in my day" and manliness grunt grunt grunt. So you can see how it looked as if you are advocating for physical violence as the primary response.

I would agree that I did not put my argument forward very eloquently and I apologize for that, but I am not at all “embarrassed.” I find you a bit too judgmental for my taste. And for your information, I am a woman so I really hope I didn’t have a “manliness grunt grunt grunt” about me. All I was trying to get across is that I don’t trust the faculty to handle the situation properly because I have never seen a school faculty handle that type of situation properly…ever. So when my child is getting beat on I would like them to feel as though justice would entail them to fight back. Obviously if words or a principle can handle the situation that would be preferred but in today’s society I just don’t see that happening very often.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I would agree that I did not put my argument forward very eloquently and I apologize for that, but I am not at all “embarrassed.” I find you a bit too judgmental for my taste. And for your information, I am a woman so I really hope I didn’t have a “manliness grunt grunt grunt” about me. All I was trying to get across is that I don’t trust the faculty to handle the situation properly because I have never seen a school faculty handle that type of situation properly…ever. So when my child is getting beat on I would like them to feel as though justice would entail them to fight back. Obviously if words or a principle can handle the situation that would be preferred but in today’s society I just don’t see that happening very often.

I know you are a woman. But you were grunting as well about your own child.

I may be too “Judgemental” for your taste. Some might even label it being a cyber bully.

I call it telling it like it is. Which is what we did back in my day.

I have already said and I will say again. If your idea is to NOT go through the proper channels because “you don’t trust them to do anything” and you teach your child that. you are being irresponsible.

Perhaps this conversation is not one you wish to continue.

 

[travissbeloved]

I know you are a woman. But you were grunting as well about your own child.

I may be too “Judgemental” for your taste. Some might even label it being a cyber bully.

I call it telling it like it is. Which is what we did back in my day.

I have already said and I will say again. If your idea is to NOT go through the proper channels because “you don’t trust them to do anything” and you teach your child that. you are being irresponsible.

Perhaps this conversation is not one you wish to continue.

It’s just one where I think you’re wrong lol

Just because you tell me that I’m being irresponsible doesn’t mean that I am not a responsible parent. I just happen to have a different viewpoint than you. But I don’t go around telling other people how “embarrassed” they should be or how irresponsible they are because that is not my place. There are laws of the Church that have to be upheld and then there are personal opinions. And you are not allowed to belittle me and call me an irresponsible parent simply because my viewpoint differs from yours on this matter.

 

[captainrick]

Though I tend to agree with the moral idea of ALL 6 points you made here. I struggle with number 6 as a Catholic.
Do we really want to teach our kids to be strong so the bullies will move on to the weak? Is that what we are called to do. Deflect injustice to the weakest of the world by making sure we are the strongest?

honestly it is a struggle within me. Because I can see both sides of this idea.

A valid point… But at age 7 I guess I was just thinking that I wanted to stop them from hurting me.

 

[EasterJoy]

I guess I’m not explaining my experience clearly enough – here’s what would happen:

1. Two or three bullies knock me down
2. I get up and run.
3. They catch me (I’m fat and slow)
4. They knock me down again and start punching me.
5. Instead of just lying there, I punch back.
6. They learn to leave me alone – they prefer to just beat on smeone while he lies there and cries, then laugh at him.

Kempo? Great, I agree! As a firearms instructor I teach that the best defense is to GET OUT of there if attacked. My son is a law enforcement officer who reaches defensive tactics. Defending oneself can get physical. Shouldn’t we all be capable of defending ourselves from attackers if we can’t put distance between us?

I never tracked down bullies and beat them up for revenge – I simply learned to hit back if I couldn’t get away.

This is the kind of direct bullying that schools are not willing to tolerate any more. The “boys will be boys” and “you need to get tough” attitudes are not something that schools can afford to hold on to. I would agree that having the self-awareness and self-confidence to choose when to fight and when to flee, not to mention how to avoid “ambush” situations without blaming yourself for becoming a victim are extremely important things for a child to learn.

Relational and indirect aggression, however, are far harder to identify and deal with.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It’s just one where I think you’re wrong lol

Just because you tell me that I’m being irresponsible doesn’t mean that I am not a responsible parent. I just happen to have a different viewpoint than you. But I don’t go around telling other people how “embarrassed” they should be or how irresponsible they are because that is not my place. There are laws of the Church that have to be upheld and then there are personal opinions. And you are not allowed to belittle me and call me an irresponsible parent simply because my viewpoint differs from yours on this matter.

You said.

All I was trying to get across is that I don’t trust the faculty to handle the situation properly because I have never seen a school faculty handle that type of situation properly…ever. So when my child is getting beat on I would like them to feel as though justice would entail them to fight back.

This means that you are teaching your child that the FIRST and only response should be physically hurting someone. That is irresponsible parenting and may in fact cause a child to be the Bully in a situation. You said before that parents will never belive that their kid could do something wrong. If you are advocating the first response is violence because you don’t trust the school to protect your child one would have to wonder why your child would be placed by you in that environment to begin with.

Thankfully We homeschool so my children will not be susceptible to a child who has been taught to distrust authorities and handle things physically first.

You might not like it. But I’ll be even captain would agree with me on that point. Violence is the final option.

I’m glad my child is not in the type of school you apparently will send yours to.

Fight for your lives kids. but remember, no weapons> I’m sure that will work.

 

[captainrick]

You both did a horrible job of expressing a point of view that I would agree with. Self defense is not only a right but in some instances a moral obligation. But that is not what you said to start out. You posted on a thread about bullying that you just beat them up and problem solved. Almost as if it were some sort of prideful thing. When in fact you should be embarrassed. You should be embarrassed that it came to that. That you were not taught how to correctly handle the situation. It should have included the phrase “last resort” But it didn’t and then you and travissbeloved and captain america started talking about 'in my day" and manliness grunt grunt grunt. So you can see how it looked as if you are advocating for physical violence as the primary response.

But here I speak directly to you captainrick:

That you are a firearms instructor makes your neglect much more alarming. Any firearms instructor worth his spit knows just how idiotic that sounded. Shame on you and I hope you use better care when teaching firearm classes. If self defense is employed then it is a failure of all parties. If someone cannot grasp the lethal and seriousness of force then I don’t want you next to me on the firing range. I will not make that assumption about your son in law who I will charitable assume makes his point about self defense in a clearer and less egotistical way. It is quite dangerous to go around talking about how in the old days we settled it john wayne style in the yard when teaching ANY kind of self defense. Because any kind of self defense CAN be lethal. even in the school yard. And that is a heavy burden.

Not only that but with self defense comes the responsibility of good judgement and emotional stability. Assessing the situation with logic, morality, and seriousness. These are traits that most adults do not possess. Yet here we expect a kid to make a rational judgement in the heat of a moment.

There is no reason a child of any age should be put in the position of using force. To have that situation is a failure of that child, a school, law enforcement, other adults, and the parents of both bully and victim. That you personally did not have that protection growing up is not a point of machismo pride, but rather a commentary on a failed society.

Like it or not in this day and age you could be held liable for your child beating up a bully. They could imprison you, or take away your house. Especially if a death resulted. Even something as accidental as the bully falling on a rock and dying. We can go round and round about the ridiculousness about our litigious society but it ultimately is just one more reason in a LONG line of reasons that it be ingrained that violence in the LAST option. not the “best way to handle a bully”

And if I as an adult found all (capts and traviss’) post hard to understand about it being the Last and only option left on the table, imagine a child listening to what mommy and daddy are saying and teaching. “Be a man and fight back” is a form of bullying in itself. And is in no way parental or Holy.

And Captinrick, I hope you find some way to impress that idea upon those whom you instruct. It is your moral obligation to do so.

I just DID explain that self defense is a last resort, you just quoted that post! The best defense is always to get away. That’s what I teach. I also said that with bullies, I was only trying to keep from being hurt. I never started fights. I eventually did learn self defense, but never used it except as a last resort, even as a police officer.

Sorry I didn’t make posts more understandable at first.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I just DID explain that self defense is a last resort, you just quoted that post! The best defense is always to get away. That’s what I teach. I also said that with bullies, I was only trying to keep from being hurt. I never started fights. I eventually did learn self defense, but never used it except as a last resort, even as a police officer.

Sorry I didn’t make posts more understandable at first.

I think you and I are on the same page now.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

In football we engrain into our players that 9 times out of 10, it is the retaliation that gets called. Do not retaliate. Most schools will have mandatory suspension for kids who fight. Instigator and defender alike.

Fighting back carries more than just physical consequences but can lead to academic and legal ones as well. It is best to teach our children to lead, to respect, and to deflect with intellect and prudence.

I wouldn’t mess around with telling my kid to fight back lest it damage his future.

 

[captainrick]

I think you and I are on the same page now.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t think there’s really any one answer.

I was always on the small side, and naturally good prey for bullies.

In grade school I handled it by fighting some of them (bullies really don’t like resistance, even if it’s futile) and befriending a few very big kids.

In high school, I solved one situation by throwing a bully down a flight of stairs when he wasn’t expecting it. He was really mad, but he never bothered me again because he couldn’t know when I might manage to blindside him again.

In another situation, I befriended the bully’s sister. She told me his family “pet name” for him. It was unimaginably silly and potentially embarrassing. I whispered it to him privately one day, and he never bothered me again.

Later on in high school, I lifted weights and “muscled up”. One bully I knocked down without warning when he challenged me, and he was so shocked he never bothered me again. Another challenged me to meet him after school to fight, but he didn’t show. Another who could have whipped me with a blindfold on, and knew he could, still didn’t go forward with it when I told him I would fight him until he killed me, if it came to that. Nobody wants to deal with something crazy like that; not even a bully.

I have to commend my son. He was a superb athlete, very strong and held a school weightlifting record. Bullied kids sometimes came to him for protection. He would inform the bully that he would whip the daylights out of him if he didn’t leave the victim alone. And it worked. My son was also very popular and sometimes just the social pressure he could exert would make a bully back off. I suspect the latter would be pretty effective in a lot of situations.

I sometimes think capable peers who would never be bullies themselves are part of the problem because so few of them will intervene on behalf of a bullied kid. I also think if more kids were encouraged to intervene, physically or socially, there would be a lot less of it. Peer pressure is a lot more effective than rules, school officials or programs.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I followed the story of Incognito and Martin of the Miami Dolphins with great interest this year. A classic case of bullying and machismo gone wrong. Neither one is playing now. That was a locker room with no leaders. A group of people with no tools to stop the bully.
It isn’t just the weak, it is prevalent in many areas of life. Not the least of which are schools. For this reason we need to show our kids how to resolve, how to cope, and how to take the proper channels. I hear coach after coach. from Cower to Gruden talk about how that should have been handled by the players, and then the coaches and how all failed because no one went through the proper channels. The answer was not for Martin to fight back. Or for there to be punches thrown. the answer was to handle it in the proper way with the proper authorities.

If two boys on my team are physically fighting. They are gone. I don’t care how good they are, who said what or who hit who first or what the parents say. gone.

But the key is that they are not surprised by this consequence. I make sure they understand it from day one. Of course we are talking pee wee now a days but still, it applies. And it used to apply when I coached elsewhere.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’ll quit after this.

It was a long time ago that I dealt with bullies, and I realize schools are now as likely to punish the bullied as the bully; perhaps more so.

When I was in school, there was fighting all the time, and was considered almost normal.

I will say this about a bullying group. I only had one experience with that. It was miserable. But I somehow figured out that one of that group probably didn’t have his heart in it. I managed to befriend him in a sort of unusual circumstance, and was never bothered by anybody in the group again. It just stopped cold. I don’t know how that happened, but could guess.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t think there’s really any one answer.

I was always on the small side, and naturally good prey for bullies.

In grade school I handled it by fighting some of them (bullies really don’t like resistance, even if it’s futile) and befriending a few very big kids.

In high school, I solved one situation by throwing a bully down a flight of stairs when he wasn’t expecting it. He was really mad, but he never bothered me again because he couldn’t know when I might manage to blindside him again.

In another situation, I befriended the bully’s sister. She told me his family “pet name” for him. It was unimaginably silly and potentially embarrassing. I whispered it to him privately one day, and he never bothered me again.

Later on in high school, I lifted weights and “muscled up”. One bully I knocked down without warning when he challenged me, and he was so shocked he never bothered me again. Another challenged me to meet him after school to fight, but he didn’t show. Another who could have whipped me with a blindfold on, and knew he could, still didn’t go forward with it when I told him I would fight him until he killed me, if it came to that. Nobody wants to deal with something crazy like that; not even a bully.

I have to commend my son. He was a superb athlete, very strong and held a school weightlifting record. Bullied kids sometimes came to him for protection. He would inform the bully that he would whip the daylights out of him if he didn’t leave the victim alone. And it worked. My son was also very popular and sometimes just the social pressure he could exert would make a bully back off. I suspect the latter would be pretty effective in a lot of situations.

I sometimes think capable peers who would never be bullies themselves are part of the problem because so few of them will intervene on behalf of a bullied kid. I also think if more kids were encouraged to intervene, physically or socially, there would be a lot less of it. Peer pressure is a lot more effective than rules, school officials or programs.

LOL
I loved the idea of whispering the pet name to him. Not only is that potentially embarrassing but it might remind him of his family, who might not approve of what he is doing. While again I am not pro violence first. I have to laugh at the idea of your son using the language “whip the daylights out of someone” What part of 1950 do you live in that people talk like that?

It is interesting all us old fogies sitting around reliving the time we pulled a ralph from a christmas story on a bully. I would like to hear from a youth about the situation in the schools today. maybe how someone solved a problem with wit and wile instead of a punch to the gut. Like your pet name story.

As an aside does anyone remember that old movie 3 o clock high?