Your opinion: How does God view women?

[Karen107]

She said that Jesus may be nice, God the father still favor men.

.

What you don’t understand is that Jesus revealed/reveals the true nature of God the Father to us. So learn from Jesus about the Father. Jesus and the Father are One…

“Father, you are the One who is good. The world does not know you, but I know you. And these people know that you sent me. I showed them what you are like. And again I will show them what you are like. Then they will have the same love that you have for me. And I will live in them.”
— John 17:25-26

“I and the Father are one.”
John 10:30

So reading just the OT doesn’t tell us the complete picture about God.

 

[EasterJoy]

Even though for most of “man-made” society, men are heavily favored in our own eyes. But it is important to remember that man brought sin into the world through Adam. God brought salvation into the world through Mary. In the eyes of God, Mary is the highest human being who is not God and man.

Mary knew the difference between being important as fallen humans see importance and being exalted as Heaven does. Our task is to believe that the standards of Heaven are right and good and lovable and the standards of the World, the Flesh, and the Devil are wrong-headed, bad, and to be despised.

“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
according to his promise to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
Luke 1:46-55

He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me.
You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.”
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me
must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it,
but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
What profit would there be for one
to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?
Or what can one give in exchange for his life?
For the Son of Man will come
with his angels in his Father’s glory,
and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.”
Matt 16:23-27

So while we may say that Mary did not see as feminists see, we must always say that in concert with the recognition that the unjust instances of patriarchy against which the feminists rebel is also not according to the mind of Christ.

We must always be careful, then, to teach that both men and women are to imitate Mary, because the mind of Mary was the mind of Christ and the mind of Christ the mind of the Father. The universe will not be right until all in it with a will have been subjected to the mind of the Trinity, which is love.

So… how do I think God views women? I think God undoubtedly sees that some women of privilege are not seeking to bring justice that was formerly denied by the men of privilege. No, some are tempted to think they can call it justice if as many women get a piece of the “privilege pie” as men. The mind of Christ, in contrast, is one of noblesse oblige–that is, privilege obliges, because to the one to whom much is given, much is expected.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I can tell you that most atheist/liberals that I run into have a most unfavorable view of the way women were treated in the Bible. I’ve heard a shocking amount say openly that they
“will not serve”.

I’m not an atheist but I am liberal which is one reason I’m not a practicing Catholic. Per the OP question though, my opinion is God views men and women as equals and it is more or less a cultural matter. Just my :twocents: though.

 

[shirley_snh2004]

I’d like to suggest that your dd read St. Pope Jean-Paul II’s “Letter to Women” and then his “On the Dignity and Vocation of Women”.

He recognizes and affirms that we women have a “feminine genius”. There is so much to digest in these two letters, I cannot begin to put it all in writing here.

Usually, “Endow groups” form in parishes to meet, read and discuss. If your daughter cannot find a group or form a parish group, then perhaps Endow would sell her the booklets outright for her personal reading.

endowgroups.org/

Sincerely and God bless you and your dd,
Shirley H in SW WA

 

[Irishmom2]

However, my wife and even my sister did say that that’s how they felt sometimes. They got over it though.

Want to hear your thoughts on this. Apparently, her thought process is a lot more common that I thought.

I have never felt that God favored men more than women. Maybe I don’t read the bible enough?

Both men and women are sinners. Jesus died for the sins of all of us. Not just men. Not just women.

Maybe I am simple-minded, or I don’t aspire to much in this life. I just want to get to Heaven.

 

[pianistclare]

I have never felt that God favored men more than women. Maybe I don’t read the bible enough?

Both men and women are sinners. Jesus died for the sins of all of us. Not just men. Not just women.

Maybe I am simple-minded, or I don’t aspire to much in this life. I just want to get to Heaven.

Right. God is not reduced to political correctness or opinions either way. He speaks to the world. That means everyone, in every stations of life.
He is. He is Truth He is goodness, and He is love. That is enough for the vast majority of Christians.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

God chose a woman to be exalted above all mankind. Mary is the proof.

 

[joeybaggz]

Hello Matthewww

. There is one important concept to make a point of when this happens: the culture of that time was very Male oriented; thus, God the Father worked thru mankind using that which we could understand at that time. How many times have we heard Mr. Akins on the radio say something like… “… the Jews at the time would have understood this to mean …” All too often we get trapped by using today’s understanding of the words and culture against the original intent of the words and we forget the culture of the time when the Bible was written was very different than today’s - hmm… (Genesis 3:4 )!

Matthew
To elaborate on the above quote, it must be remembered that at Jesus’ time, women did not have any legal standing. Women could not testify in court or act as witnesses. It’s important to remember when reading something like the incident where the gospel writer states that Jesus fed five thousand men. What the writer was saying was Jesus took two fish and five small loaves of bread, miraculously multiplied it, and fed five thousand. And I have 5000 witness that can testify to the truth of this incident. 0101’s statement that the culture of the time was very different than it is today is eminently true. This applies throughout the Scriptures. Today, one must go deeper than just the words as they appear on the bible’s pages. In the feeding of five thousand, to change the word, men, to, say, people, would destroy the important lesson the writer was trying to impart. It might sound sexist, it is not.

Another thought I like. There is a Talmudic principle that says that as God Created, each creation takes on a greater dignity than the one’s before. (from Genesis) And the last thing God created was - drum roll please - woman. Another thought is that God created all things from simple elements, even Adam - from the dust of the earth. However, Adam was the only thing God created that was eternally precious to Him, going so far as to instill in Adam an immortal soul - God’s own image and likeness. Then, seeing Adam with no partner in life, God creates again, but this time he steps out of character. God creates Eve; not from chemicals or elements, or even another shovel of dirt. He creates Eve from the only thing eternally precious to Himself. Adam. Thinking that way, how can anyone denigrate any woman at any time and in any way?

Just my thoughts.

Shalom

 

[pianistclare]

z_0101;14401723:

Hello Matthewww

. There is one important concept to make a point of when this happens: the culture of that time was very Male oriented; thus, God the Father worked thru mankind using that which we could understand at that time. How many times have we heard Mr. Akins on the radio say something like… “… the Jews at the time would have understood this to mean …” All too often we get trapped by using today’s understanding of the words and culture against the original intent of the words and we forget the culture of the time when the Bible was written was very different than today’s - hmm… (Genesis 3:4

)!

Matthew
To elaborate on the above quote, it must be remembered that at Jesus’ time, women did not have any legal standing. Women could not testify in court or act as witnesses. It’s important to remember when reading something like the incident where the gospel writer states that Jesus fed five thousand men. What the writer was saying was Jesus took two fish and five small loaves of bread, miraculously multiplied it, and fed five thousand. And I have 5000 witness that can testify to the truth of this incident. 0101’s statement that the culture of the time was very different than it is today is eminently true. This applies throughout the Scriptures. Today, one must go deeper than just the words as they appear on the bible’s pages. In the feeding of five thousand, to change the word, men, to, say, people, would destroy the important lesson the writer was trying to impart. It might sound sexist, it is not.

Another thought I like. There is a Talmudic principle that says that as God Created, each creation takes on a greater dignity than the one’s before. (from Genesis) And the last thing God created was - drum roll please - woman. Another thought is that God created all things from simple elements, even Adam - from the dust of the earth. However, Adam was the only thing God created that was eternally precious to Him, going so far as to instill in Adam an immortal soul - God’s own image and likeness. Then, seeing Adam with no partner in life, God creates again, but this time he steps out of character. God creates Eve; not from chemicals or elements, or even another shovel of dirt. He creates Eve from the only thing eternally precious to Himself. Adam. Thinking that way, how can anyone denigrate any woman at any time and in any way?

Just my thoughts.

Shalom

Yes, well stated.

 

[matthewww]

I’d like to suggest that your dd read St. Pope Jean-Paul II’s “Letter to Women” and then his “On the Dignity and Vocation of Women”.

He recognizes and affirms that we women have a “feminine genius”. There is so much to digest in these two letters, I cannot begin to put it all in writing here.

Usually, “Endow groups” form in parishes to meet, read and discuss. If your daughter cannot find a group or form a parish group, then perhaps Endow would sell her the booklets outright for her personal reading.

endowgroups.org/

Sincerely and God bless you and your dd,
Shirley H in SW WA

She went for sunday school and she has heard letters like this, as well as women’s talks where they covered these topics. However, she found it very patronizing. She does not want to join any group, so we don’t force her to.

What you don’t understand is that Jesus revealed/reveals the true nature of God the Father to us. So learn from Jesus about the Father. Jesus and the Father are One…

“Father, you are the One who is good. The world does not know you, but I know you. And these people know that you sent me. I showed them what you are like. And again I will show them what you are like. Then they will have the same love that you have for me. And I will live in them.”
— John 17:25-26

“I and the Father are one.”
John 10:30

So reading just the OT doesn’t tell us the complete picture about God.

Impossible, and Our Lord said so Himself:

Jesus answered and said to them, "*Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also. For the Father loves his Son and shows him everything that he himself does, and he will show him greater works than these, so that you may be amazed.

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life, so also does the Son give life to whomever he wishes. Nor does the Father judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to his Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him*." Matt. 5:19-22

Our Lord came in order to reveal the Father to the world, to do the Father’s work, to bring the Kingdom of God. Likewise, Our Lord is not just our Mediator between God and humankind, but has been given the seat of judgment.

In other words, people who think of Our Lord as the Good Cop and the Father as the Bad Cop and the Holy Spirit as the defense attorney have it all wrong. That is not what Our Lord taught.

Thank you for those verses.

 

[matthewww]

Ok before I put my 2 cents in the cup…

Now along with quote one about men and women having different roles I love reading

Ephesians 5:21-24

The Christian Household
21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.

Did St. Paul just write even more stuff against women. :bigyikes:

Of course he didn’t. He is just showing God’s plan for salvation. On the surface this verse seems to say the husband is the head of the household and the wife must submit to his every wish. However, we need to dig deeper. First it says we need to be subject to one another, which denotes equality. Not the man being greater than the woman. Also we need to finish the text.

Ephesians 5:25-33

25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to Christ and the church; 33 however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

She believes that the fact that patriarchy is ‘encouraged’ by God shows that He thinks differently between the two sexes-that women is somehow less than men. She knows God loves both, but she thinks that he favors one over the other.

My wife said that some women have trouble being the Church while men get to be Christ, I don’t know if my daughter feels this way.

 

[pensmama87]

She believes that the fact that patriarchy is ‘encouraged’ by God shows that He thinks differently between the two sexes-that women is somehow less than men. She knows God loves both, but she thinks that he favors one over the other.

My wife said that some women have trouble being the Church while men get to be Christ, I don’t know if my daughter feels this way.

Except that men and women are both the Church. There is an analogy there but I don’t think it’s being really grasped if that’s the main understanding of it.

Being different does not mean ranking, either. That’s curious to me. We all have different skills, talents, capabilities, aptitudes, charisms. All are valued by God as long as they are done to honor Him. There are some things it is only possible for women to do, even if not all women can or choose to, and there are others only men can do.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I think it can be most difficult for those who don’t really fit the churches roles for men and women, especially if they are gifted in a way that seems more suited to the other gender, for example a woman who is called to ministry or with leadership qualities may get frustrated. This can also be the case for men, I have a close male friend who isn’t effeminate but is very nurturing and creative, a lot of churches don’t really get him which is a shame as he has a lot to offer.

 

[AdamP88]

She believes that the fact that patriarchy is ‘encouraged’ by God shows that He thinks differently between the two sexes-that women is somehow less than men. She knows God loves both, but she thinks that he favors one over the other.

My wife said that some women have trouble being the Church while men get to be Christ, I don’t know if my daughter feels this way.

Well, we’re all called to be Christ to each other.

Maybe she might benefit from reading the life of St. Catherine of Siena.

What she should also realise is that despite our feelings about the Church (there are areas where all of us have thought we might know better than the Church I think), she should humble herself and accept what the Church teaches. i.e. that men and women are created with equal dignity and God does not prefer one over the other.

 

[Sarcelle]

You as her father makes a more powerful witness on shaping her view of God the Father.
This is in the way you treat her, your wife and the other women and girls in your life.

Most women have been estranged from God because of problematic relationships with their own fathers.

 

[Kay_Cee]

I posted a thread about my dd a while back.

Well, she started to read the bible more often, and her conclusion was that God definitely favored men over women.

I pointed out some parts of the gospel like the woman at the well. She pointed out more stuff against women. She said that Jesus may be nice, God the father still favor men.

As a father, I always thought maybe God is more gentle. I am more gentle when it comes to her compared to my boys.

However, my wife and even my sister did say that that’s how they felt sometimes. They got over it though.

Want to hear your thoughts on this. Apparently, her thought process is a lot more common that I thought.

Thank you in advance.

You might want to show her this post I put on my blog on Mother’s Day:

reflections911.wordpress.com/2016/05/04/mothers-day/#more-302

 

[LittleWay92]

I think a major problem here is that it can be very difficult for teens who live in a patriarchal society to prevent that context from affecting their view of God. Heaven does not favor men over women, but that is a foreign concept to those who grow up in a society that bombards them with expectations based solely on gender. If they expect to see patriarchy, they will find it wherever they go.

Feelings do matter, because they can cloud our eyes to the truth. If the ultimate goal is to change her mind, you must attend to both her feelings and her knowledge.

 

[pianistclare]

As a Director of Religious Ed, I am troubled by your comment that “we don’t force her to go to religious ed classes”.

That’s a bit like being bewildered that one cannot drive but one won’t take driving lessons.

No wonder she doesn’t understand. She probably has no idea that the Bible should only be read literally for the literal parts. There are many writing styles in the Bible, all instructive, But some are allegory, some are parable, some are literal, some are historical.
I’m not surprised she is greatly confused. You are allowing her to self-educate and then want to make corrections after the fact.
I can assure you, she is being catechized by her friends, secular media, and varying opinions non compatible with the faith. At her Baptism you and her godparents made promises to instruct her in the faith. That means religious ed classes besides your good example, saying grace before meals, and your own corporal works of mercy and charitable giving.
Put her in class. It’s not a matter of “force”.
It’s your duty and job as a parent to see to it that she receive the best possible instruction in the faith.
I can tell you this: Many parents come to m office lamenting the poor choices of their teenage children in many areas. When I ask…when was the last time they were in Mass with you? Why are they not enrolled in catechism classes, youth groups, formation? They generally reply that everything stopped with First Communion. It’s not enough.
Hopefully you are not those kinds of folks. I assume you are doing the best you can by virtue of the fact that she has posed this question. But, the RE staff are trained and certified to answer these questions at their level.
Take full advantage of this help at your parish level.
Take care. You’re not alone in this.

 

[on_the_hill]

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

 

[Lea101]

As a Director of Religious Ed, I am troubled by your comment that “we don’t force her to go to religious ed classes”.

That’s a bit like being bewildered that one cannot drive but one won’t take driving lessons.

OP said that his kid went for Sunday school (i am assuming that means religious ed classes bc that is what it means here) but he doesn’t force her to sign up for any parish group (eg lectors, whatever prayer group there is).

My family (well, my brother) is trying to force me to join one and honestly I wouldn’t recommend doing that