Your opinion on Posture for Reception of Communion

[hansgsa]

The Holy See and the Pope are the only ones who can in fact change the norms for reception of Jesus in Holy Communion. Local Bishops, Archbishops, even Cardinals have no right to change what is the authority of the Holy See alone!

Just recently the Holy See has publicly sited that: “It is a grave offense to deny Holy Communion to Catholics who wish to kneel.” What does this mean? That you have a right to receive Jesus kneeling as well as standing. Furthermore it affirms, contrary to what many misguided priests and even bishops say: namely that you have a right to kneel for Communion if you so choose, regardless of whether they like it or not!

Clearly, to me it is an act of Faith that when one kneels to the Holy Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, you are affirming the essance of Our Holy Catholic Faith. At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. Therefore its is pride when priests and other people persucute the faithful for kneeling at Communion and they are guilty of a grave offense.

It should be pointed out however, that some people have just reasons for not kneeling and that, in itself, is a holy sacrifice to make. My wife and I have been denied Communion by various priests. We must pray for both ‘priests’ and ‘Catholics’ at large who harass those who beleive kneeling is the right thing to do. But lets face it, it’s time to give Jesus some serious glory and honour for a Sacrament that has had it’s share of abuse.

 

[Mysty101]

hansgsa:

The Holy See and the Pope are the only ones who can in fact change the norms for reception of Jesus in Holy Communion. Local Bishops, Archbishops, even Cardinals have no right to change what is the authority of the Holy See alone!
.

The norm to stand in the US was approved by the Holy See

Clearly, to me it is an act of Faith that when one kneels to the Holy Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, you are affirming the essance of Our Holy Catholic Faith. At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. Therefore its is pride when priests and other people persucute the faithful for kneeling at Communion and they are guilty of a grave offense.

The wording is this:

Distribution of Holy Communion
This adaptation will take the place of number 160, paragraph 2:

The faithful are not permitted to take up the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice themselves, and still less, hand them on to one another. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.

Do you honestly believe your definition of reverence should be placed over the USCCB, and that Jesus is more pleased by you kneeling and ignoring the instruction of your Bishop & Pastor, then by standing in deference to their instruction?

But lets face it, it’s time to give Jesus some serious glory and honour for a Sacrament that has had it’s share of abuse

An orderly procession with the spirit of submission is far more reverent than putting your will over that of your Sheepherd. Perhaps you could sacrifice you tenuous “right” to receive kneeling and show support for your Bishop?

 

[fix]

Mysty101:

The norm to stand in the US was approved by the Holy See

The norm was approved with the understanding that those who chose to kneel would kneel.

Do you honestly believe your definition of reverence should be placed over the USCCB, and that Jesus is more pleased by you kneeling and ignoring the instruction of your Bishop & Pastor, then by standing in deference to their instruction?[/quoye]

Those who kneel are obeying Christ and the Church as said it is good and permissible. It would seem you are placing the USCCB at odds with the Vatican? The Vatican said kneeling is fine.

An orderly procession with the spirit of submission is far more reverent than putting your will over that of your Sheepherd. Perhaps you could sacrifice you tenuous “right” to receive kneeling and show support for your Bishop?

It would seem tha those who attempt to hold Catholics to a standard that the Church does not impose are being disobedient. The Church has spoken. Kneeling is permitted and is not disobedient or an abuse.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

BTW:
As I pointed out BEFORE. The poll on this thread has “kneel” 53% after all those decades of indoctrination, the “sensus catholicus” comes through… Nuf said.

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The question was how do you receive? NOT How would you like to receive?

I receive standing because I generally have no choice. I would like very much to have the Altar Rail back and kneel for reception either in the hand or on the tongue. This is how I received for several years between 1974?? until 1980-81??

 

[TNT]

Br. Rich SFO:

The question was how do you receive? NOT How would you like to receive?

I receive standing because I generally have no choice. I would like very much to have the Altar Rail back and kneel for reception either in the hand or on the tongue. This is how I received for several years between 1974?? until 1980-81??

Indeed. I listed thse who would kneel, given the opportunity.
BUT I also did a post on the 22% who ALWAYS kneel.at the continuation Thread.

 

[Mernpap]

It appears that the aggressive anti-kneelers fail to see anything positive about kneeling to receive the Body of Christ. How sad to have such a negative perspective on something that has been liturgically correct for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. I do not have the gall to suggest that the Church has been irreverent up until the present day.

One argument that has been presented for no kneeling is the concern that not all people are able to kneel and that some who are trying to kneel are not able to do so well. How peculiar a complaint! Where I attend Mass there are a few people with physical handicaps that rarely attempt to kneel. When they do, they are obviously in pain and very awkward. Do I automatically judge them as ruining the reverence of the communion procession? How dare I! They are simply judging for themselves that they are capable of bearing the pain that day and offering their suffering in union with Christ’s Passion. How beautiful! Their gift of adoration and sacrifice is so eloquent! How much they obviously love Jesus Christ! I am sure that Christ is pleased with their gift to Him. Their gift to the rest of the congregation is also appreciated. We all get the joy of seeing them bear witness to love of Christ.

By the way, our church doesn’t have kneelers or rails. It is very awkward for even those of us that are agile to kneel and then arise gracefully. Still it is worth the effort. Our priests stand far enough back to allow those that choose to kneel room on the step. Our communion procession is not extraordinarily prolonged by the moments spent kneeling and arising. The wonderful thing about having overflow crowds each Sunday is that the procession takes enough time for several minutes of adoration after reception of communion. I wouldn’t complain if the procession took twice as long. I don’t think any of us can get too much time on our knees in the Presence of our Eucharistic Lord.

If your goal is to process quickly, get your cookie, and exit expeditiously, don’t bother coming to Mass. McDonald’s sells cookies at their drive-thru windows. You’ll get what you want much more efficiently. If you truly want the Bread of Life, slow down and appreciate participating in the whole Mass. Every moment is an opportunity to worship and receive Graces.

Quit critiquing people that behave differently and think differently than yourself and possibly your bishop. Your harsh judgements are likely to come back to bite you. I suggest wearing charity-colored glasses to Mass. You might be surprised how much good you can see in fellow parishioners when you get off your pedestal. Looking down on others tends to distort one’s view. Looking up from below puts the rest of the congregation between the viewer and the crucifix. Humility is so beautiful and makes our surroundings so much easier to appreciate.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

trevor:

I would prefer to kneel. If I could take communion prostrate on the ground I would. Our Diocese has decided for us to stand and make a profound bow.

I don’t like it but we must listen to our Bishop.

The King of the Universe is before us. If we were to see Jesus and His Body at the front of the line, I am sure we would all be on our faces.

ybiC,
Trevor

Same here … One thing I’m still not sure of is how to make a “profound bow”.

 

[jlw]

Wildgraywolf:

Same here … One thing I’m still not sure of is how to make a “profound bow”.

45 degree angle with hands clasped?? What do to altar boys (oops, I mean, er, altar people) do in front of the tabernacle??

Of course, this may disrupt the “flow” of the procession (egad!!) if everyone actually did this, eh??

 

[krazykatlady]

I’m an old timer who remembers when the Tridentine Mass was the Mass and every one knelt to receive. Those who were unable stood at the altar rail to receive. No problem. These threads have gone on way too long.

 

[pnewton]

krazykatlady:

These threads have gone on way too long.

ahhhhhhh-mennnn.

 

[Mysty101]

krazykatlady:

I’m an old timer who remembers when the Tridentine Mass was the Mass and every one knelt to receive. Those who were unable stood at the altar rail to receive. No problem. These threads have gone on way too long.

Then why are you reading and responding???

 

[Mysty101]

pnewton:

ahhhhhhh-mennnn.

Ditto

 

[Defensor_Fidei]

Time to kick the dead horse?

 

[jlw]

Defensor Fidei:

Time to kick the dead horse?

It the horse on it’s knees??

 

[otm]

Wildgraywolf:

Same here … One thing I’m still not sure of is how to make a “profound bow”.

A profound bow is from the waist, as opposed to a bow of the head. How far one bows from the waist (how far forward) is not indiciated, but the bow should be eonought that an observer would be able to note that you bowed from the waist, not bobed froward a bit.

As always, common sense applies.

 

[Defensor_Fidei]

jlw:

Is the horse on it’s knees??

 

[otm]

CreosMary:

Tell your Parish priest he is out of line. The Holy Father has instructed all Bishops to tell thier Priests they cannot refuse communion to those who choose to kneel.
I always kneel and feel it is the most appropriate way although standing tends to be the norm :ehh:

Wrong. You might try actually reading the GIRM, as that is part of the GIRM; those who kneel are to be instructed. The Parish priest, rather than being out of line, is following the rules of the GIRM. Those who kneel are not following the rules of the GIRM, but rather their own dictates.

The fact that Rome has said that one may not be refused Communion if one kneels is not permission to violate the rules of the GIRM, but rather a statement that a certain sanction cannot be applied if one violates the rules.

 

[otm]

fix:

I posted a link to a Vatican correspondence that said the norm for standing was allowed only on the condition that kneeling would still be permitted for those who choose to do so. It is not disobedient to kneel and the Vatican said so.

Is it not true that when a higher authority and a lower authority disagree, we are to obey the higher authority?

There may be a hierarchy of authority, but there is also a heirarchy of law, and that is, where a law has been passed by a lower authority, a higher authority cannot simply overrule it by a letter. There is a process that must be gone through, or laws become meaningless. When the authority has been granted to a lweere authority by a greater to pass a law, then that law stands, for most purposes.

The comment in a letter by one individual in a dicastery in Rome as to the obedience or disobedience of a particualr act is just his opinion when it flies in the face of a particular law. It is somewhat the equivalent of asking a judge a question of law. If he is not in court hearing a case in which that particular law is addressed, anything he says about that law is only his personal opinion. When he is trying the case, then his statement is no longer a personal opinion, but a ruling. Rome did not make a ruling on the issue, and the law stands that the norm in the United States as to posture for receiving Communion is standing.

Someone in Rome may say that the posture for standing is only allowed if the permission to kneel is still granted, but the fact is that the GIRM is the rule, and it was passed by the bishops and approved by Rome as written. Rome was eminently capable of not approving the GIRM as written, but they did so. They did not require that any permission be granted for kneeling. The presumption is that Rome knows what they are doing when they approve a rule, the stament in the letter notwithstanding. A good analogy is the approval/ diapproval of translations. Rome is eminently capable of withholding approval until they get what they want.

 

[otm]

hansgsa:

The Holy See and the Pope are the only ones who can in fact change the norms for reception of Jesus in Holy Communion. Local Bishops, Archbishops, even Cardinals have no right to change what is the authority of the Holy See alone!

Rome has granted rulemaking power to the conference of bishops, subject to final approval by Rome. THe bishops wrote the rule (the norm is standing) and Rome arpproved it.
hangsa:

Just recently the Holy See has publicly sited that: “It is a grave offense to deny Holy Communion to Catholics who wish to kneel.” What does this mean? That you have a right to receive Jesus kneeling as well as standing. Furthermore it affirms, contrary to what many misguided priests and even bishops say: namely that you have a right to kneel for Communion if you so choose, regardless of whether they like it or not!

No, it doesn’t. Excuse me, where did you get your law degree?

You are confusing the issue of punishment for violating a rule with the issue of the rule itself. Rome did not change the rule or give anyone permission to kneel. What they said was that if someone violated the norm of standing, no one could inflict the punishment of withholding Communion. That did not abrogate the rule; it simply stated the the punishment for violating it could not be withholding Communion.
hangsa:

Therefore its is pride when priests and other people persucute the faithful for kneeling at Communion and they are guilty of a grave offense.

No, they are simply following the GIRM as approved by Rome, that the individual is to be counseled that the norm is standing.

Lets face it. Some very conservative Catholics will do what they want when they don’t like what the bishops have required. Strange, it is the same behavior as the liberals who pick and choose.

 

[Mysty101]

Amen.