Your opinion on Posture for Reception of Communion

[CrusaderNY]

Show of it? You got that wrong my friend, there is no show in this person, the only “show” I have is reverence for my Lord, and the GIRM has been infiltrated by the Modernists, just like I found out 10 years after the fact that the New American Bible has. No, in reality we are just like the Protestants now it seems, I had no idea we actually changed sacred liturgy to be more Politically correct and to be Ecumenical , I ask all to visit this site and see if this has gone to far, and then decide if standing there in your shorts and flip flops with your hands outstretched waiting for a 75 year old Eucharistic minister (from unconsecrated hands to unconsecrated hands to your mouth) to receive our Lord is really what we need as a church. Soon, like the TLM, they will ban receiving our Lord kneeling, reverence soon to be forbidden in the name of Vatican II, I can see it coming not to far down the line

usccb.org/nab/prefnew86.htm

Mysty101:

This is not for us to decide—The authority lies with the Bishops, who have seen a need for change I have gone over the reasons many times.

I am sure the exact thing was said at the time of the Council of Trent

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Honestly, this gets so exasperating! If people who feel we should be kneeling think it is that essential, why don’t you start a movement to get the Vatican/our bishops to change it? There’s all sorts of movements in the Church, some good, some bad. I believe you would actually get a good hearing from Catholic laity at least. If more and more people asked for it, perhaps the “Sesum Fidei” would prevail and the Holy Father would restore the practice universally. For the five years I rec. communion as an Episcopalian, we knelt for the reception of both the bread and the chalice, at an altar rail. The only time we didn’t was during diocesan conventions. That’s why I don’t buy the argument that standing for reception is Protestant. I’ve attended “communion” services in Baptist, Episcopalian, and Methodist churches. In the first, we sat. In the latter two, we actually knelt!!! I can go either way. I think the point Mysty was making is that this is what our bishops have asked us to do. Shouldn’t we obey our lawful shepherds?

 

[Mysty101]

God bless you.

This is exactly what I am saying>

 

[Nota_Bene]

JakeW:

We have a communion rail, padded kneelers, and we kneel. Period done end of story.

You are illustrating perfectly a sitaution where a local parish feels it knows what is “better” than the Vatican does. Nothing more than dissent, albiet “conservative” dissent.

JakeW:

Quite frankly the whole standing is the “norm” business is ONLY about not spending the money to put back the communion rails that they ripped up on the 70’s.

So says your own personal conjecture. Any facts to back-up your position? Keep in mind that carved marble communion rails are not necessary – a few simple portable kneelers (like mortuaries use at gravesites) would be more than sufficient…

 

[JNB]

I myself kneel for communion when provisons are there to kneel(altar rail or a portable kneeler), and the parish I attend has a altar rail with pads, and my parish still uses the rail for communion, and as stated in 3 letters on the subject from the Vatican, it is not dissent, nor to be treated as such, and in case anyone asks, the previous bishop of my diocese(who only left a couple of months ago) allowed my parish’ local custom to remain.(though if he tried to force the issue the letters from the Vatican would have been further referenced to).

In any event, people will still kneel for communion, and its sad so many people attack those who kneel for communion when there are literally hundreds of parishes in the US that have no kneelers and stand during the Eucharistic prayer despite what GIRM says.

Notabene, again, reference yourself to the latters from the Vatican about those who kneel for communion, and also Nota Bene, the “norm” was from the USCCB, not the Vatican.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

JNB:

I myself kneel for communion when provisons are there to kneel(altar rail or a portable kneeler), and the parish I attend has a altar rail with pads, and my parish still uses the rail for communion, and as stated in 3 letters on the subject from the Vatican, it is not dissent, nor to be treated as such, and in case anyone asks, the previous bishop of my diocese(who only left a couple of months ago) allowed my parish’ local custom to remain.(though if he tried to force the issue the letters from the Vatican would have been further referenced to).

In any event, people will still kneel for communion, and its sad so many people attack those who kneel for communion when there are literally hundreds of parishes in the US that have no kneelers and stand during the Eucharistic prayer despite what GIRM says.

Notabene, again, reference yourself to the latters from the Vatican about those who kneel for communion, and also Nota Bene, the “norm” was from the USCCB, not the Vatican.

Could you please reference those attacks in this forum? Generally, what I’ve seen is a hue and cry from those who think we MUST kneel and if we don’t (obeying the directive from the American Bishops), then we’re bad Catholics. The “standers” then reply that we’ve been directed to stand, the “kneelers” then say “but we can’t be denied Communion if we kneel!,” to which the “standers” point out “yes, but then the priest is suppose to take you aside and pastorally instruct you as to why we stand. After that, if you still kneel, then it would SEEM that you’re trying to attract attention to yourself and your piety,” which the “kneelers” then deny, so we reach a stalemate in the argument. If you want to kneel, then by all means kneel, it’s between you and God and the priest. But if we’ve decided to obey the directive of the bishops, set over us by the Pope (the I believe the Holy See acknowledged that standing is the norm in the American church), that doesn’t make us less reverent. I am very sensible of the fact that What the priest sets in my hands is my Lord and my God, my Creator and my Redeemer.

 

[Nota_Bene]

JNB:

I myself kneel for communion when provisons are there to kneel(altar rail or a portable kneeler), and the parish I attend has a altar rail with pads, and my parish still uses the rail for communion, and as stated in 3 letters on the subject from the Vatican, it is not dissent, nor to be treated as such, and in case anyone asks, the previous bishop of my diocese(who only left a couple of months ago) allowed my parish’ local custom to remain.(though if he tried to force the issue the letters from the Vatican would have been further referenced to).

In any event, people will still kneel for communion, and its sad so many people attack those who kneel for communion when there are literally hundreds of parishes in the US that have no kneelers and stand during the Eucharistic prayer despite what GIRM says.

Notabene, again, reference yourself to the latters from the Vatican about those who kneel for communion, and also Nota Bene, the “norm” was from the USCCB, not the Vatican.

It most certainly is dissent. Those that feel the need to dissent in this manner are directed to be dealth with in a pastorially sensitive manner, but it still dissent no matter how you slice (or interpret) it.

 

[Nota_Bene]

JKirkLVNV:

Could you please reference those attacks in this forum? Generally, what I’ve seen is a hue and cry from those who think we MUST kneel and if we don’t (obeying the directive from the American Bishops), then we’re bad Catholics. The “standers” then reply that we’ve been directed to stand, the “kneelers” then say “but we can’t be denied Communion if we kneel!,” to which the “standers” point out “yes, but then the priest is suppose to take you aside and pastorally instruct you as to why we stand. After that, if you still kneel, then it would SEEM that you’re trying to attract attention to yourself and your piety,” which the “kneelers” then deny, so we reach a stalemate in the argument. If you want to kneel, then by all means kneel, it’s between you and God and the priest. But if we’ve decided to obey the directive of the bishops, set over us by the Pope (the I believe the Holy See acknowledged that standing is the norm in the American church), that doesn’t make us less reverent. I am very sensible of the fact that What the priest sets in my hands is my Lord and my God, my Creator and my Redeemer.

Extremely well said. If we want to follow the Holy See, we stand. If we want to follow what we feel is “better” we kneel. Remember, the Vatican isn’t going to deny us Holy Communion if we kneel!

Reverse this for just a moment and just imagine the judgemental diatribes that would spew forth from the “kneelers” if kneeling was indeed the norm, yet “standers” were treated in the same pastorially sensitive manner as kneelers are today – no refusal of Holy Communion, etc.

The kneelers would be ripping both the standers and the Vatican. There would be those funny calls for everyone to retreat to the “tlm.” Very hypocitical and sad to say the least.

But just remember! I’m “conservative” and I know what’s best! That’s not the case when “liberals” (AKA those that do not agree with me) fail to follow the Church, but I’m different.

I know more than the Church because I’m a conservative! I would be at the tlm right now, but my wife cannot find her mantilla and my misselette seems to be missing…

 

[Nota_Bene]

“GIRM #160…Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm…”

Any Catholic Christian that feels the above is license to receive Holy Communion (in the USA) while kneeling is a liturgically abusive Catholic Christian.

 

[CrusaderNY]

So what you are saying is that according to the GIRM, if I decide to continue to kneel to worship the real presence of my Lord, as has been done for centuries, I am being “liturgically abusive”? If that is the case, then I guess then I and many like me have only one alternative…

“GIRM #160…Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm…”

Any Catholic Christian that feels the above is license to receive Holy Communion (in the USA) while kneeling is a liturgically abusive Catholic Christian.

 

[CrusaderNY]

Why…because we would think the Vatican, as has been done for centuries, would have enough common sense to think that people actually do think that the real presence of Our Lord exists, and we want to show our subservience and reverence to him before receiving him…Must everything be so Protestant? Why should we have to campaign to do what is most reverent and right by God?

JKirkLVNV:

Honestly, this gets so exasperating! If people who feel we should be kneeling think it is that essential, why don’t you start a movement to get the Vatican/our bishops to change it? There’s all sorts of movements in the Church, some good, some bad. I believe you would actually get a good hearing from Catholic laity at least. If more and more people asked for it, perhaps the “Sesum Fidei” would prevail and the Holy Father would restore the practice universally. For the five years I rec. communion as an Episcopalian, we knelt for the reception of both the bread and the chalice, at an altar rail. The only time we didn’t was during diocesan conventions. That’s why I don’t buy the argument that standing for reception is Protestant. I’ve attended “communion” services in Baptist, Episcopalian, and Methodist churches. In the first, we sat. In the latter two, we actually knelt!!! I can go either way. I think the point Mysty was making is that this is what our bishops have asked us to do. Shouldn’t we obey our lawful shepherds?

 

[pnewton]

CrusaderNY:

Show of it? You got that wrong my friend, there is no show in this person, the only “show” I have is reverence for my Lord, and the GIRM has been infiltrated by the Modernists,

I apologize if I worded his in a way to imply I wastalking about you personally. I specifically stated thte reverse situation ot the person who stands to receive with indifference to the Sacrament to avoid any personal implication.

My point is and still remains that the attitiude of the heart is of far more importance. Indifference or pride, both have no place when receiving the Lord. Emphasis on posture is far down the list of problems of those who receive unworthily.

I can not imagine what it would be like to have such a strong conviction as many here do about receiving by kneeling in America today. I hope that in dealing with any priest that they will be truly pastoral and respecting of conscience.

 

[TNT]

*“GIRM #160…Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons *for this norm…”

Any Catholic Christian that feels the above is license to receive Holy Communion (in the USA) while kneeling is a liturgically abusive Catholic Christian.

Yeaaaa! You’re just the one I’m looking for!
Please state for all of us, the reasons. We’ll read them carefully. Make sure there are more than 1, as it says reason**(S)
Ok, we’re on the edge…waiting…
**

 

[jlw]

TNT:

Yeaaaa! You’re just the one I’m looking for!
Please state for all of us, the reasons. We’ll read them carefully. Make sure there are more than 1, as it says reason**(S)**
Ok, we’re on the edge…waiting…

I’m waiting too…

 

[CrusaderNY]

And I’m waiting…three…

jlw:

I’m waiting too…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

CrusaderNY:

Why…because we would think the Vatican, as has been done for centuries, would have enough common sense to think that people actually do think that the real presence of Our Lord exists, and we want to show our subservience and reverence to him before receiving him…Must everything be so Protestant? ***Why should we have to campaign to do what is most reverent and right by God?/***QUOTE]

STANDING AIN’T PROTESTANT!!! Most fundamentalist evangelicals sit as deacons and elders pass trays full of bread and grape juice to them. They never leave their pews. In the Episcopal Church, at least through 1988, well after the Second Vatican Council, as well as in every Methodist Church I’ve heard of, the position was kneeling. KNEELING, KNEELING, KNEELING, at an altar rail, in front of an altar!!! What about this do you not get? Hold whatever opinion you want, but at least get your facts straight! And your last sentence is patently a subjective opinion! There are other people that would think that obeying the directive of our lawful shepherds is what is “most reverent and right by God!”

 

[jlw]

CrusaderNY:

And I’m waiting…three…

<>

 

[Defensor_Fidei]

The options on this poll were not very good or well thought out.

-Ted

 

[Nota_Bene]

TNT:

Yeaaaa! You’re just the one I’m looking for!
Please state for all of us, the reasons. We’ll read them carefully. Make sure there are more than 1, as it says reason**(S)**
Ok, we’re on the edge…waiting…

Because the Catholic Church says so via the GIRM. End of discussion, no matter how much “better” you feel your chosen posture is.

 

[otm]

Ecce Homo:

But concerning kneeling, the Pope clearly states that it is a sign of adoration. It seems to me the Pope is saying is that kneeling, of itself, is an appropriate posture for receiving Communion, whereas standing, by itself, is lacking.

Remove for a moment the context of the American norm for receiving Communion. If you were free to receive Christ in any posture you desired, wouldn’t you rather receive in a posture of adoration than some other posture?

Now restore that context. Why would the bishops in America choose for the faithful to receive in a posture other than one of adoration if they truly desired what is best for their flock? It is not my intention to question the motives of our bishops, but I cannot reasonably understand their disapproval of kneeling–a posture most suitable for receiving the Eucharist.

The question of obedience to pastors and bishops is important, but when the Pope has expressed his approval of kneeling to receive Communion, kneeling when local bishops disapprove is not disobedience.

Your logic would be fine if the Church had no laws except the statements of Popes. However, since that statement was made, rules hae been promulgated, and the rule is that we stand.

To answer your other question, by extension of logic, we should kneel during the whole Mass. Obviously we don’t.

I recently attended Mass in a church which uses the Communion rail. Given the constant motion about that area (people start knneling at one end, and are receiving before eveyone has knelt down the whole length; while those who kneel at the other end have those who have received walking behind them), I found that more distracting than receiving standing. I am not receiving (standing) while people are moving behind me; the priest is not moving quickly down a line distributing Communion, and I can receive under both species, which is more difficult to do kneeling.

Interestingly, this church does not generally distribute under both species, but someone who was last in line received from the Cup; I assume they suffer from celiac issues.

I do not disagree that kneeling is a sign of adoration, but I found it more distracting that making a bow, which is also a sign of adoration. You may prefer one sign, I another, but they are both signs of adoration.