Your Opinion on Socialism

[CivisRomanusSum]

Hi guys! What’s your opinion on social democracy? On socialism in general? Also, what is the relationship between our faith and this ideology (opinions of theologians, popes, or apologists; statements from the catechism, papal encyclicals, etc.)?

This question is for Catholics and non-Catholics (for the non-Catholics, what do your leaders and teachings say?)

Thanks guys

 

[Rascalking]

My opinion is that socialism is a a disgusting insult to the dignity of human freedom.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Hi guys! What’s your opinion on social democracy? On socialism in general? Also, what is the relationship between our faith and this ideology (opinions of theologians, popes, or apologists; statements from the catechism, papal encyclicals, etc.)?

This question is for Catholics and non-Catholics (for the non-Catholics, what do your leaders and teachings say?)

Thanks guys

My opinion on socialism and its little brothers does not really matter.

The CCC condemns it utterly.

 

[jwder09]

Socialism, at best, dilutes our ability, and God given responsibiliy, to choose the morally righteous path. Not only does it allow government to impose it’s own belief system, but, socialism necessarily forces compliance. Even if a socialist government conforms to the teaching of the Church, socialism must sustain itself through the fullfillment of secular needs. I submit that, giving this requirement, a socialist government that conforms to Church teaching, can not be sustained over an extended period of time. Again, compliance becomes a mandate, enforced by law.

More important, however, is my initial point, that our God given responsibility to chose the morally righteous path is hampered. If my earnings are taxed at a rate that allows my survival, and those same earnings are distributed in accordance with the needs of others, have I fullfilled the Lord’s call to be charitable and humane towards others? Of course not; but, my inclination would be to believe the greater good has been served, and by extension, so too my obligation to the Lord.This, I believe, is the basis for the outcry against cuts to any social program’s budget. If government doesn’t serve the needs of it’s citizens, I may be called to so!

 

[bevsue]

Wow - some pretty strong feelings here! I was just going to say that maybe a word like “socialism” should be a little more defined in a question like this, since 1) it is an emotionally “loaded” type word. and 2) it is the kind of word that gets thrown around to cover a lot of different ideas some of which aren’t socialism at all. For example communism and socialism are not the exact same thing and yet the terms get used interchangably quite often. Were you thinking of something particular?

 

[CountrySteve]

its not a good thing its evil and of satan

 

[JRKH]

It’s going to depend upon what the individual understands when he hears or reads the term socialism.

As an Idea Socialism is fine.
Dictionary.com offers this definition:
*a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. *

Wikipedia offers a more involved definition:
is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively, or a political philosophy advocating such a system. As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs

As defined above it is no better or worse than any other “-ism”. It is a system of thought that if ideally applied will produce good, and be of benefit to the population.

The problem with socialism as it has been applied though is quite different from the definitions above, either due to greed of individuals or due to trying to mix different and competing forms. As a result, what people see is the result of attempts to apply socialism improperly and that have failed (or are failing).

So - If I give my opinion on socialism as an Idea…I think it’s just fine…No better or worse than Communism or Capitalism as an Idea.
If I give my opinion on Socialism as a practical social and governmental system…History demonstrates it is entirely too susceptible to abuse. I don’t think it could work in any but the smallest and most specific applications…For instance, “Shakers” ran a socialist type system. Most Monasteries are “socialist” in that most everything is held in common. Some companies today are owned and operated by the employees - a socialist type model.
To try to apply any of these very limited applications to a full fledged governmental system fails for the very basic reason that, those who seek the benefits, do not wish to pay for them…We are seeing this very thin in the US as we move toward a more socialized model. The People look to the government for help (which costs money) but the People will do not support raising taxes sufficiently to cover the benefits they seek…this dichotomy simply cannot support itself in the long run…

Peace
James

 

[Krakatoa]

Socialism goes against the most basic attributes of human nature, such as the desire to be free, and the desire to be rewarded for one’s own efforts. This is likely why socialism has such a miserable track record.

 

[Jocko_VT]

Socialism is not a form of government. It’s a form of economy. That seems to have been missed by a couple of commentors. You can have a socialist economy within a horrible dictatorship, and you can have a socialist economy within a democracy.

I agree that this needs to be specified a bit better. Socialism is too broad a term.

In an economy that outstrips the power and will of individuals, there are going to be problems. Capitalism and Socialism both offer those problems. I see socialism as a reaction to the problems that emerged out of capitalism. They’re both equally evil and equally good.

I think the key to good economic practice is to keep the economic aspects of life embedded in social relationships. I don’t think we *can *do this and have global economies or even economies that span entire nation-states. More needs to be localized.

The way I read a few of the encyclicals, neither capitalism nor socialism offers a viable answer to how we should organize our economies. Doesn’t the catechism explain that states are to coordinate the economy so as to be certain that the economy serves the people rather than the people serving the economy?

 

[ANNE_2]

Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively, or a political philosophy advocating such a system.

Communism is a socio-political movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.

Giving government control over our lives usurps FREEDOM.
CCC " 1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility.
By free will one shapes one’s own life.
Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude."

 

[Robert_Sock]

I for one embrace socialism, and I think that Christ was a pure socialist. (I know I’m going to get a lot of flack here)

I also think that the world government, when it finally happens, will be socialistic.

 

[ANNE_2]

I for one embrace socialism, and I think that Christ was a pure socialist. (I know I’m going to get a lot of flack here)
I also think that the world government, when it finally happens, will be socialistic.

I noted that you state you are Catholic.
Please read your “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”, which all Catholics must do their best to adhere to.

World government would be a human dictatorship. Corruption will abound for the powerful, voting will mean nothing.

 

[JRKH]

I noted that you state you are Catholic.
Please read your “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”, which all Catholics must do their best to adhere to.

I suggest you take a look at Acts and see the description of the very earliest Christian community. Everyone sold what they had, held everything in common, and goods were distributed according to need, and everyone worked according to their talent…Sounds suspiciously socialistic to me…

World government would be a human dictatorship. Corruption will abound for the powerful, voting will mean nothing.

ANNE,
Why would “world government” be “human dictatorship”?

As far as I can tell we already HAVE world government, just not one world government.
Every area, every group, every country has some form of government and some form of economic system. These forms vary widely in their applications though not so much in their forms.

We live under a government now that encompasses our world, the one we grew up in and take part in. If we were to move to another country we would be subject to the laws of that government.

I just don’t see where you are getting this statement, “World government would be a human dictatorship” and that voting would mean nothing…

Peace
James

 

[ZDHayden]

Socialism is a response to Capitalism. Socialism seeks to equalize the great divide between the oligarchs (capitalists) and the many (the workers). Socialism’s response to the divide is to distribute wealth, and place the means of production entirely into public hands (which, in practice, means the government’s hands). This, I think, limits and enslaves everyone, just as much as Capitalism enables the few and enslaves the many. I think that socialism is a good announcer of the flaws of capitalism - but it fails in its own application.

I prefer a third way. Distribute evenly the means of production, rather than the product.

 

[JRKH]

I for one embrace socialism, and I think that Christ was a pure socialist. (I know I’m going to get a lot of flack here)

I also think that the world government, when it finally happens, will be socialistic.

When the ultimate "one world government’ happens it will be a kingship of Christ and will be perfect. I think it will be the very best of all the various socio-economic ideals but better

 

[Robert_Sock]

When the ultimate "one world government’ happens it will be a kingship of Christ and will be perfect. I think it will be the very best of all the various socio-economic ideals but better

I can’t wait!!!

 

[JRKH]

The Great problem with ALL systems in application are the Seven Deadly sins…
Get rid of these and ANY of the systems discussed will work just fine.

Pride is excessive belief in one’s own abilities, that interferes with the individual’s recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others’ traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

I noted that you state you are Catholic.
Please read your “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”, which all Catholics must do their best to adhere to.

World government would be a human dictatorship. Corruption will abound for the powerful, voting will mean nothing.

Ecclesiastes 3:1
All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.

 

[CMatt25]

Wow - some pretty strong feelings here! I was just going to say that maybe a word like “socialism” should be a little more defined in a question like this, since 1) it is an emotionally “loaded” type word. and 2) it is the kind of word that gets thrown around to cover a lot of different ideas some of which aren’t socialism at all. For example communism and socialism are not the exact same thing and yet the terms get used interchangably quite often.

Good pt as I’ve heard both terms get thrown around for instance onto Barack Obama.

 

[CMatt25]

I for one embrace socialism, and I think that Christ was a pure socialist. (I know I’m going to get a lot of flack here)

Well I read Matt 25: 35-46 and I don’t believe for a minute Christ would turn down any help He could get to aid the poor. Or to care for the sick with more adequate, affordable healthcare for all, along the lines of what we see in other countries like Canada and European countries. And I’ve gotten tons of flack on this forum for those things. So oh yeah expect flack if you think Christ was an economic socialist. :yup: Peace.