your opinions on gays

[Bennie_P]

Deviational behaviors at times have a “spiritual disconnect.” Some writings on those subjects suggest a “demonical presence.” If that can be substantiated then a Rite of Exorcism might just be the way out of such a morass. Unfortunately, the Church has diminished her accent on the Rite. Maybe it’s time to have a greater emphasis and increase the number of priests to perform them.

The child molestations cannot be ignored…they have to be addressed NOT ONLY by monetary settlements but SPIRITUAL approaches, even more so.

Where have you seen a post where I of all people have posted anything about ignoring child molestation and where are you headed with this?

 

[Bennie_P]

And Christian heterosexuals ignore scripture, in terms of helping our gay brothers and sisters discern what is and what is not acceptable behavior in the eyes of the Lord?

Granted, there is a fine line between giving council and admonition in a Christian-like manner and judging others. Perhaps that’s why discussion about homosexuality generates much debate on this forum and in general.

Many homosexuals seem to see criticism aimed at the behavior as judmental, and it’s easy to see how when you see “christian” churches such the Westboro Baptist “church” in Kansas and their like.

Clearly, this is a very seriously and complex matter that we Catholics have to come to terms with; how exactly in practice to we love the person and help them. Homosexuality must be a very difficult cross to bear, when one wishes to follow Christ’s teachings through his Church.

You are making a broad brush stroke about Christians and how and what they do to help those that suffer from SSA. sighting Westboro Baptist Church as an example of Christianity is to me is insult and feeds into the “gay” agenda of trying to brand Christianity as uncaring. why haven’t you mention how the Sisters of Missionaries of Charity have ministries all over the world that work and serve and minister those that suffer from aids? or the Catholic Ministry Courage that gives those that suffer from SSA support and spiritual counseling in their struggle to live chaste lives despite the cross they bare? or organizations such as NARTH that give support and counseling help to those that want to leave the 'gay" lifstyle? Most of the codemnation
“gays” may feel living their lifstyle comes from self-imposed comdemnation in which they throw out to the Christian community in an attempt to put blame of their own self-hatred on the standards of Judea-Christian morality. A standard in which Christians attempt to live by. The majority of Christians do not go around trying to make life miserable for those that suffer from SSA. The truth is those that choose to act on those feelings bring misery upon themselves in most cases by ignoring the love and grace God has to give. Those that suffer from SSA that put their trust in God find peace in His love and Grace There are many brothers and sisters in Christ willing to give understanding and support when approached. But if one just wants acceptance to continue in the “gay” lifestyle, then one is asking a brother or sister to bless your death, physical and spiritual. That isn’t love.

 

[Exalt]

You are making a broad brush stroke about Christians and how and what they do to help those that suffer from SSA. sighting Westboro Baptist Church as an example of Christianity is to me is insult and feeds into the “gay” agenda of trying to brand Christianity as uncaring. why haven’t you mention how the Sisters of Missionaries of Charity have ministries all over the world that work and serve and minister those that suffer from aids? or the Catholic Ministry Courage that gives those that suffer from SSA support and spiritual counseling in their struggle to live chaste lives despite the cross they bare? or organizations such as NARTH that give support and counseling help to those that want to leave the 'gay" lifstyle? Most of the codemnation
“gays” may feel living their lifstyle comes from self-imposed comdemnation in which they throw out to the Christian community in an attempt to put blame on their own self-hatred on the standards of Judea-Christian morality. A standard in which Christians attempt to live by. The majority of Christians do not go around trying to make life miserable for those that suffer from SSA. The truth is those that choose to act on those feelings bring misery upon themselves in most cases by ignoring the love and grace God has to give. Those that suffer from SSA that put their trust in God find peace in His love and Grace There are many brothers and sisters in Christ willing to give understanding and support when approached. But if one just wants acceptance to continue in the “gay” lifestyle, then one is asking a brother or sister to bless your death, physical and spiritual. That isn’t love.

Unless, of course, God doesn’t exist at all. In which case, the self-repression you require of homosexual people seems rather pointless and probably harmful.

 

[Bennie_P]

Unless, of course, God doesn’t exist at all. In which case, the self-repression you require of homosexual people seems rather pointless and probably harmful.

If God doesn’t exist then why do you fight Him as hard as you do?

 

[estesbob]

And Christian heterosexuals ignore scripture, in terms of helping our gay brothers and sisters discern what is and what is not acceptable behavior in the eyes of the Lord?

They do? Can you give us some evidence back up this blanket condemnation of Christians?

Granted, there is a fine line between giving council and admonition in a Christian-like manner and judging others. Perhaps that’s why discussion about homosexuality generates much debate on this forum and in general.

The reason it generates so much debate is that people continually come to these forums and tell us there is nothing wrong with homosexual behavior. I have seen in ever thread I participated in that people are very careful to differentiate between same-sex attractionand homosexual behavior.

Many homosexuals seem to see criticism aimed at the behavior as judmental, and it’s easy to see how when you see “christian” churches such the Westboro Baptist “church” in Kansas and their like.

The Westborough Baptist Church is a strawman. The only members of the the church Fred Phelps and his immediate family .To call it a Christian church is ridiculous. The truth is most homosexual activists love Fred Phelps as they can always waive his behavior around like the Sword Excalibur and claim it proves all Christians are homophobic bigots.

Clearly, this is a very seriously and complex matter that we Catholics have to come to terms with; how exactly in practice to we love the person and help them. Homosexuality must be a very difficult cross to bear, when one wishes to follow Christ’s teachings through his Church.

I believe the Catholic Church has come to terms with this very well. The Catechism is very a clear but there is nothing sinful about same-sex attraction and we should never be uncharitable towards those people who engage in homosexual behavior. Howeve rit is also very clearthat homosexual behavior is a grievous sin and we do those who engage in this behavior no favor by not pointing that out.

 

[estesbob]

There’s been studies about how often a surgeon gets holes or perforations in their surgical gloves; it’s not surprising that many times by the end of a surgery there are p(name removed by moderator)oint holes (or a hole) in the gloves. That’s why they scrub beforehand and why they’re so adamant about HIV testing. You can (and apparently did ) see why they wouldn’t want to take someone’s word for it.

So shouldn’t all surgical groups be tested prior to every surgery?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

No, it doesn’t. But I think the comparison is not quite correct.

Knowledge of what God intends for us forces us to make decisions which we may find unpleasant. Being unmarried, I can not have sex. Because abortion is murder, I can not support legalized abortion, no matter how much I would like. I am even obligated to be nice to people whose politics drive me up the wall - which can be very difficult here at CAF.

I wonder if you aren’t asking about the basic fairness of requiring life-long chastity for persons with same sex attraction. I admit, it doesn’t seem fair - it is a heavy cross to bear. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t the right thing to do… and that is what counts.

Perhaps you’ve hit the nail. It is unfair. You at least can get married if you believe that chastity is required absent it. This is denied the homosexual and he or she has no recourse, ever. I simply am not at all sure that God who is all love to me, has the problems we assign to Him. Perhaps we are the one’s creating the problems. All to often we forget it seems the inclusive nature of Jesus.

In other words, its the basic unfairness that causes my gut to clench which means I’m just not sure it is in fact “the right thing to do”. I simply don’t see God as unfair.

 

[KarenNC]

The Westborough Baptist Church is a strawman. The only members of the the church Fred Phelps and his immediate family .To call it a Christian church is ridiculous. The truth is most homosexual activists love Fred Phelps as they can always waive his behavior around like the Sword Excalibur and claim it proves all Christians are homophobic bigots.

I wish it were only Fred Phelps.

Operation Save America applies the same methods and behaviors to the issue of homosexuality as it does to all its other causes and those methods are not ones designed to show caring or compassion. Jack Chick applies the same standards to homosexuals as he does to Catholics. Pat Robertson and others like him are out there as well. There are others.

Are they the majority of Christians? I hope not. But they are a whole heck of a lot more vocal than those who are more moderate. It is not surprising that that is the face of Christianity that folks on the other side of the issue remember (sound like any other scenario and issues from any other religion?).

It is the extremists of pretty much any group which gets the media attention and therefore widespread publicity.

 

[jailbelle]

I am a divorced Catholic and I follow the teachings of the church.I have been divorced for over twrnty years. I remain chaste to please my God. Sex is an expression of love used within the married state to promote family life. It is not to be used as a recreational sport. It is a dignified and holy act between a husband and a wife.

 

[mercygate]

Perhaps you’ve hit the nail. It is unfair. You at least can get married if you believe that chastity is required absent it. This is denied the homosexual and he or she has no recourse, ever. I simply am not at all sure that God who is all love to me, has the problems we assign to Him. Perhaps we are the one’s creating the problems. All to often we forget it seems the inclusive nature of Jesus.

In other words, its the basic unfairness that causes my gut to clench which means I’m just not sure it is in fact “the right thing to do”. I simply don’t see God as unfair.

So the whole natural law piece doesn’t weigh much with you, huh?

“Fairness” has nothing to do with it to my mind. Nothing is fair. Promiscuity isn’t “fair.” Divorce isn’t “fair”. It isn’t “fair” that only women can have babies. “Fair” isn’t a category that applies to the fundamental conditions of our lives. “Fairness” is a juridical concept developed as a means of social organization. It has very little, if anything, to do with love. And I’m not even asking what you mean by the “inclusive nature of Jesus”.

And WHERE did you get the idea that chastity is NOT required in marriage? Chastity is the foundation stone of the marital relationship. I believe you are confusing chastity with continence. Before you can address the matter of homosexual actifity in a reasoned and wholesome way, you would do well to start back at square one and get the bigger picture of human sexuality as a whole into perspective.

 

[TraditionalCath]

im new so i just wanna see some opinions . Im all for it

iam not. i believe it violates God’s laws, and the traditional marriage of one man, and one woman. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. that is pretty much all i can say on this issue.

 

[Newbie2]

You are making a broad brush stroke about Christians and how and what they do to help those that suffer from SSA. sighting Westboro Baptist Church as an example of Christianity is to me is insult and feeds into the “gay” agenda of trying to brand Christianity as uncaring.

You missed my point, BP. Note my reference to the WBC as “christians” and as a “church”; I was indicating that their message is quite the opposite of caring.

We agree on your other points.

 

[RWMorris]

I love gay people. My best friend is a lesbian. I disagree with her lifestyle but love her as a person. I’ve had problems with SSA myself and have conquered those attractions through the grace of our Lord. It IS possible.

 

[Wampa]

Aint it great to sit on the sidelines while the great moral issues of our times pass you by.

Not being on the belligerent front lines does not imply sitting out the game, though I can see how front line combatants think it does.

The OP said homosexual behavior was OK. Should we all have either remained silent or just told him dont worrly about it-we too are sinners?

Not at all. I’ve got no problem with the discussion as it related to the OP (who I was never referring to anyway).

Carry on.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

So the whole natural law piece doesn’t weigh much with you, huh?

“Fairness” has nothing to do with it to my mind. Nothing is fair. Promiscuity isn’t “fair.” Divorce isn’t “fair”. It isn’t “fair” that only women can have babies. “Fair” isn’t a category that applies to the fundamental conditions of our lives. “Fairness” is a juridical concept developed as a means of social organization. It has very little, if anything, to do with love. And I’m not even asking what you mean by the “inclusive nature of Jesus”.

**I would have thought the inclusive nature of Jesus was rather obvious to anyone reading Luke. I guess not. And as to the fairness aspect, I guess we all believe what we choose. **

And WHERE did you get the idea that chastity is NOT required in marriage? Chastity is the foundation stone of the marital relationship. I believe you are confusing chastity with continence. Before you can address the matter of homosexual actifity in a reasoned and wholesome way, you would do well to start back at square one and get the bigger picture of human sexuality as a whole into perspective.

I never said chastity wasn’t a doctrine of the church for unmarrieds. And so thus, I’m confusing nothing. Thanks for your condenscending offer for me to learn something more along what yuou believe before I speak. I’ll consider it…

 

[Pug]

Perhaps you’ve hit the nail. It is unfair. You at least can get married if you believe that chastity is required absent it. This is denied the homosexual and he or she has no recourse, ever. I simply am not at all sure that God who is all love to me, has the problems we assign to Him. Perhaps we are the one’s creating the problems. All to often we forget it seems the inclusive nature of Jesus.

In other words, its the basic unfairness that causes my gut to clench which means I’m just not sure it is in fact “the right thing to do”. I simply don’t see God as unfair.

An SSA person is not the only person who can end up in this type of a situation. For example, a couple could validly marry and then a few years later the husband could have a terrible accident, but still live. The couple could find themselves in the position of never having relations again. They would need to be continent. Or a woman could become divorced with no chance of an annulment. She too would need to be continent, but it might be easier for her than the couple. Various people, through no fault of their own I might add, end up in situations where they must be continent (continent = have no sex).

The people I describe will be perfectly happy in heaven. In our time on the earth, however, it is not quite like heaven.

John 9:1 As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him.

This biblical quote at least partly address the idea of unfairness. Many people would say it was unfair that the man was born blind when so many people aren’t.

 

[mercygate]

I never said chastity wasn’t a doctrine of the church for unmarrieds. And so thus, I’m confusing nothing. Thanks for your condenscending offer for me to learn something more along what yuou believe before I speak. I’ll consider it…

I said chastity is a doctrine of the Church for MARRIED people.

 

[goofyjim]

I wish it were only Fred Phelps.

Operation Save America applies the same methods and behaviors to the issue of homosexuality as it does to all its other causes and those methods are not ones designed to show caring or compassion. Jack Chick applies the same standards to homosexuals as he does to Catholics. Pat Robertson and others like him are out there as well. There are others.

Are they the majority of Christians? I hope not. But they are a whole heck of a lot more vocal than those who are more moderate. It is not surprising that that is the face of Christianity that folks on the other side of the issue remember (sound like any other scenario and issues from any other religion?).

It is the extremists of pretty much any group which gets the media attention and therefore widespread publicity.

Virtue is found in the middle.

 

[Riley259]

I love gay people. My best friend is a lesbian. I disagree with her lifestyle but love her as a person. I’ve had problems with SSA myself and have conquered those attractions through the grace of our Lord. It IS possible.

You’re a good role model…keep it up!

 

[chacha]

Tiggeriffic,

As someone who has insight into the gay community, maybe you could clarify what the gay organizations are trying to accomplish by frequently, publicly offending the Church.

Catholics aren’t doing anything to gays, yet these organizations have giant sodomy parties at places holy to us, and when they aren’t doing that they publically display pornographic images of Christ and the Saints at their other celebrations.

Why are they so mean to Christians? Why are they so intolerant of us? Why do these organizations tolerate Islam, which has the death penalty for homosexuality, but won’t tolerate Christianity, which only proposes that they have the choice to not engage in homosexual relations?

Good question…I like to know the answer to this also.