your opinions on gays

[LCMS_No_More]

The Lord Jesus Christ was “made man.” When He was here on this earth, He would have had the same desires that other men had. Therefore, my understanding is that He had a heterosexual orientation. To believe otherwise is to deny his human nature.

Also,. remember this Hebrews 4:15?
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

The problem is how we understand homosexuality. A homosexual person is attracted to members of the same sex but HOW and WHY are not being discussed. In my experience, it’s because of a perceived lack in one’s self of same-sex identity that becomes eroticized. The foundation isn’t lust, it’s psychology.

 

[rlg94086]

To believe otherwise is to deny his human nature? That would be true if human nature is according to the concept of Sigmund Freud. But human nature is not according to Sigmund Freud’s concept. Think about the true nature of man as revealed by the Lord himself when he became flesh.

Did you read your previous post?

agangbern:

The sexual desire of a man for his wife is a normal desire. It has in it a procreative purpose. But the sexual desire of homosexual is disordered sexual desire because it is isolated from any procreative purpose.

Which comes first…desire or marriage? The desire of a man for a woman in love is a natural, God-given desire. The only place for actual sex is in marriage, but the desire is something inate to the nature of man. This is not Freudian. Please read some of the articles on Theology of the Body. You are accusing me of saying things that are not in line with Church teaching. It is only fair that you read the material I am providing in my defense, before making more accusations.

 

[Mapi]

I’m sorry, but what in the world is the CITY supposed to do about this? Yes, they did commit sacrelige by receiving the Sacrament outside of the state of grace (and they ARE Catholics - just not obedient ones).

That is not a job for the government to enforce, it’s the Church’s job. If you want the State to enforce what happens in a church, then you have to go all the way and accept a state church you might not agree with. Chances are, an American state church would be violently anti-Catholic.

Better to not go down that road.

I wasn’t talking about the city; I was wondering why the Church didn’t do anything about it!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Well, here is the video youtube.com/watch?v=MrDbgjLKoxU

Personally, I find the Archbishop’s excuses a bit hard to swallow.

As for San Francisco, my 7 year old daughter and I spent a week travelling all over the city a few weeks ago. We used all different forms of public transportation and hit most of the areas of city. We had a fabulous time and found the folks there to be overall more hospitable and helpful to strangers than we found Boston last year. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

Yep! If you avoid Market Street between Church and Castro Streets, you probably won’t see too much of the “gay community.” I’m going to spend a day there with my best friend and my niece sometime during the week of Thanksgiving and we’re going to park at a BART station outside the City and take BART and Muni around.

 

[LittleDeb]

rlg, you are doing an excellent job of trying to explain Church teaching. Agangbern’s misunderstanding of Church teaching stems from misunderstanding the definition of “disordered desire.” Since both homosexuality and lust are disordered desires he/she believes they are the same form of disorder.

Perhaps for him or her to understand that gluttony is also a form of disordered desire might help in communication?

Blessings as you continue to spread Truth rlg94086!

 

[KarenNC]

I would be remiss if I did not say that I resent, with my entire being, using Our Lord’s name in this thread on this topic.

He is the Second Person in the Holy Trinity and His name is bandied about on a subject that reeks with perversity. It is blashemous. This thread should be renamed “Da Vinci Anything Goes.”

His Holy Name must never be used in context with a subject as devious as this one.

Unbelievers are not banned on this Forum but they have to comply within the guidelines. This topic has become a topic from Hell.

Catholic people, retake control of YOUR Forum.

Sorry, John, but as far as I can tell the folks talking about Jesus in this context are the Catholics, not the “unbelievers” (check their public profiles).

 

[rlg94086]

Sorry, John, but as far as I can tell the folks talking about Jesus in this context are the Catholics, not the “unbelievers” (check their public profiles).

Since it is unclear why Johnn thinks the Lord’s name can’t be used in discussing Church teaching on homosexuality, it really was a non-sensical complaint.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Sorry, John, but as far as I can tell the folks talking about Jesus in this context are the Catholics, not the “unbelievers” (check their public profiles).

If they are “Catholics” they should revere the Name of Jesus and not soil it in this perverse thread.

 

[rlg94086]

If they are “Catholics” they should revere the Name of Jesus and not soil it in this perverse thread.

Can you please directly state what you have a problem with? Revering Jesus would seem to include bringing His teaching and His humanity into a discussion about morality. A lot of His message while he was on earth was in regards to sin and how we deal with it.

Also, the thread is not perverse…it is neutral. If there is a perverse comment that you object to, then state so directly. Generalizations and beating around the bush are not helpful to discussion.

 

[Fitswimmer]

If they are “Catholics” they should revere the Name of Jesus and not soil it in this perverse thread.

If you are offended by the topic, you do have the choice not to read it. Nobody is forcing you to involve yourself in something that you believe is perverse.

 

[Fitswimmer]

rlg, you are doing an excellent job of trying to explain Church teaching. Agangbern’s misunderstanding of Church teaching stems from misunderstanding the definition of “disordered desire.” Since both homosexuality and lust are disordered desires he/she believes they are the same form of disorder.

Perhaps for him or her to understand that gluttony is also a form of disordered desire might help in communication?

Blessings as you continue to spread Truth rlg94086!

That is how my Priest explained it to me-that there are many “disordered” desires-they’re called the 7 deadly sins.

As for the idea of orientation-I have questions for the heterosexuals posting here. When did you first know that you were attracted to the opposite sex? Did someone teach you how to be attracted to the opposite sex? Did you model your behavior on your parents?
I was brought up in a traditional home, my parents will soon be married for 50 years. As far as I know, there are no people with SSA in my genetic history, nor did I interact with any as I was growing up.
So,where did my disordered desire come from when I reached puberty?

 

[rlg94086]

That is how my Priest explained it to me-that there are many “disordered” desires-they’re called the 7 deadly sins.

As for the idea of orientation-I have questions for the heterosexuals posting here. When did you first know that you were attracted to the opposite sex? Did someone teach you how to be attracted to the opposite sex? Did you model your behavior on your parents?
I was brought up in a traditional home, my parents will soon be married for 50 years. As far as I know, there are no people with SSA in my genetic history, nor did I interact with any as I was growing up.
So,where did my disordered desire come from when I reached puberty?

I have no idea.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Show the whole 2351 here and you will see what it really means.

2351 has been shown to prove you wrong.

Attraction for what? Attraction for sex! Desire for sex with the same sex. What else? Is that sexual desire not disordered? It is disordered because it is sought for itself isolated from any procreative purpose.

No not attraction for sex but attraction for another person. I don’t know if you are capable or not but many of us are capable of being attracted to another without sexual desire being brought into the picture. For example, when I look at my wife I am always attracted, but it is not always sexual.

If you are not capable of such do not assume everyone else is not.

The sexual desire toward same sex itself is disordered sexual desire. It exists in the heart. There is no need for overt acts to make it disordered. It is itself disordered sexual desire.

I’ve shown you word for word the CCC’s statements on the difference between SSA and homosexual acts. The fact that you disagree with catholic teaching on the subject proves only that you fail to obey the teachings of the one true church.

Whether you like it or not, you are against papal teachings and therefore, not in agreement with the catholic faith.

I continue to pray for you.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

If you are offended by the topic, you do have the choice not to read it. Nobody is forcing you to involve yourself in something that you believe is perverse.

This is a Catholic Forum with definite rules and guidlines. One rule is that posts have a degree of spirituality and in that vein we glorify God.

Please, this is not an X-rated movie that one has to choose to see or not to see.

This is a Forum that is grounded in the faith for the betterment of all so that we can come to strengthen as individuals.

This NOT a PPV XXX-rated movie.

The choice you put to me should actually be REVERSED…if YOU do not think Our Lord should be praised in this Forum then YOU should not be a part of it.

 

[LittleDeb]

As for the idea of orientation-I have questions for the heterosexuals posting here. When did you first know that you were attracted to the opposite sex? Did someone teach you how to be attracted to the opposite sex? Did you model your behavior on your parents?
I was brought up in a traditional home, my parents will soon be married for 50 years. As far as I know, there are no people with SSA in my genetic history, nor did I interact with any as I was growing up.
So,where did my disordered desire come from when I reached puberty?

You know, this is actually an interesting question that I have been asked by friends from theatre who are homosexual. We have discussed it off and on. I actually do have a memory of understanding I was attracted to the opposite sex.

At around 9 years old I started to see that boys were “cute.” At the same time I started to see grown women as attractive. As I developed positive relationships with grown women I had identified as beautiful I found that I was not attracted to them in a sexual way, but instead wanted to be like them. My friends who had SSA found that at a similar age they never had strong positive relationships with adults of their same sex. Even if they didn’t report a negative relationship, they still couldn’t identify someone of the same sex that they “idolized” and were close to like I was describing. They could only identify being rejected if they had someone like that in their lives.

From my many frank discussions on sexuality, especially through studying Theology of the Body, I have come to believe it is both nature and nurture. We are fallen. We now have imperfect nature and imperfect nurture. Someone with an alcoholic inclination, yet raised in an environment with a healthy attitude towards alcohol may be able to drink in moderation for life. While another with the same inclination might have one single defining moment that triggers alcoholism.

There are some interesting studies on defining moments and how they can flip a switch in our nature. I worked on identifying my own that triggered the promiscuity in my past. So then my question, similar to fitswimmer’s, “When did I become promiscuous? I grew up in a traditional home, my parents soon to be married 45 years modeled a good solid marriage. As far as I know there are no promiscuous people in my genetic history. So when did my promiscuity develop? Do I have an inclination that I chose to act on? Is promiscuous just the way God made me?”

(PS. Just to be clear I have completely overcome that part of my past. I have no desires toward that behavior any more.)

 

[Elric]

This is a Catholic Forum with definite rules and guidlines. One rule is that posts have a degree of spirituality and in that vein we glorify God.

Please, this is not an X-rated movie that one has to choose to see or not to see.

This is a Forum that is grounded in the faith for the betterment of all so that we can come to strengthen as individuals.

This NOT a PPV XXX-rated movie.

The choice you put to me should actually be REVERSED…if YOU do not think Our Lord should be praised in this Forum then YOU should not be a part of it.

Steady on, its all right.

Nobody has dissed God and there is certainly no attempt to turn this thread into an X-rated movie.

Dont forget that these are open forums where non-cathloics are invited to join and participate, which will mean that they wont have the same opinions as you do (I think someone pointed out eariler that it was cathloics who brought Gods name/title into the discussion).

Fitswimmer is actually right with what they said, but you also have the option of taking the offence that you have to a moderator. Perhaps you should do that if you are so offended by people using Gods name/title in this thread.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Homosexuality is an atrocity.

 

[blessedtoo]

Homosexuality is an atrocity.

That’s a helpful contribution to the conversation.

 

[blessedtoo]

That is how my Priest explained it to me-that there are many “disordered” desires-they’re called the 7 deadly sins.

As for the idea of orientation-I have questions for the heterosexuals posting here. When did you first know that you were attracted to the opposite sex? Did someone teach you how to be attracted to the opposite sex? Did you model your behavior on your parents?
I was brought up in a traditional home, my parents will soon be married for 50 years. As far as I know, there are no people with SSA in my genetic history, nor did I interact with any as I was growing up.
So,where did my disordered desire come from when I reached puberty?

Thank you for that question and all your thoughful posts on CAF.

I remember being very “drawn” to my best friend when I was eight years old. As the youngest girl of three girls in a devout Catholic family, I had only the most traditional examples of family life to emulate. Growing up in the early 60’s, in an Italian Catholic family and neighborhood and being taught by the sisters, there would have been no outside influences for me to draw on. However, due to several sexually inappropriate incidents when I was 6, I believe I was oversexualized at a young age. Consequently, I began to look toward other little girls because that was what was available and it seemed less threatening. Thankfully, my mom discovered this inappropriate behavior and intervened effectively. Later, into my twenties, I returned to this form of expression for a few years but I know now it was mostly the result of feminist influence and the rebellion of youth.

My point: I think that many, if not most, children experience feelings of confusion as they are growing up. In my case, I believe what I really wanted was to BE like the other girls, but I expressed that by thinking I WANTED the other girls. Also, in my case, it was a very effective way to lash out at what I saw as the oppressive rules and regulations of my family and the culture at the time. Today, kids as young as 8 are being encouraged to pursue these feelings of confusion and in fact, are being pressured to label themselves homosexual long before they have actually reached full maturity. How can a 14 year old possibly know something like this? Their brains are still developing, their hormones are overwhelming them.

When I experienced this confusion, I had no student groups on campus to push me toward the gay lifestyle. There were no TV shows to glorify homosexuality or movie stars “coming out” publicly. It was still considered a “disorder” and so a youngin’ still had a chance to nurture and develop proper gender identity with the support of parents, teachers, clergy. Today, confused kids are told if they have feelings for a member of their own gender, they MUST be gay. I thank God I was born and raised when I was, and that I had a mother who wasn’t afraid to call a sin by it’s name.

 

[goofyjim]

Thank you for that question and all your thoughful posts on CAF.

I remember being very “drawn” to my best friend when I was eight years old. As the youngest girl of three girls in a devout Catholic family, I had only the most traditional examples of family life to emulate. Growing up in the early 60’s, in an Italian Catholic family and neighborhood and being taught by the sisters, there would have been no outside influences for me to draw on. However, due to several sexually inappropriate incidents when I was 6, I believe I was oversexualized at a young age. Consequently, I began to look toward other little girls because that was what was available and it seemed less threatening. Thankfully, my mom discovered this inappropriate behavior and intervened effectively. Later, into my twenties, I returned to this form of expression for a few years but I know now it was mostly the result of feminist influence and the rebellion of youth.

My point: I think that many, if not most, children experience feelings of confusion as they are growing up. In my case, I believe what I really wanted was to BE like the other girls, but I expressed that by thinking I WANTED the other girls. Also, in my case, it was a very effective way to lash out at what I saw as the oppressive rules and regulations of my family and the culture at the time. Today, kids as young as 8 are being encouraged to pursue these feelings of confusion and in fact, are being pressured to label themselves homosexual long before they have actually reached full maturity. How can a 14 year old possibly know something like this? Their brains are still developing, their hormones are overwhelming them.

When I experienced this confusion, I had no student groups on campus to push me toward the gay lifestyle. There were no TV shows to glorify homosexuality or movie stars “coming out” publicly. It was still considered a “disorder” and so a youngin’ still had a chance to nurture and develop proper gender identity with the support of parents, teachers, clergy. Today, confused kids are told if they have feelings for a member of their own gender, they MUST be gay. I thank God I was born and raised when I was, and that I had a mother who wasn’t afraid to call a sin by it’s name.

A 14 year old can’t know but when it persists into adult life then you know. And the orientation is not a sin. It is also not a sin to be happy with yourself. In my book gay still means happy. I am not afraid to say I am gay.