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rlg94086
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Mastery of self refers to how we react to natural inclinations. I’m not sure why you don’t get that. Sin requires action on our part.
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agangbern
Guest
Desiring is also an action, even if it is internally. I am also not sure why you don’t get that.
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rlg94086
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I do get that, but inclination is not desire - even according to the definition you gave.
Desire is the action of entertaining the thoughts that pop up in your head due to your inclination. If you reject those thoughts immediately, then they don’t become desire, and you haven’t sinned. If you are able to keep thoughts from popping into your head than you have powers that no other humans I know have.
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defenderoftruth
Guest
I agree, where does “attraction/temptation/inclination” end and “desire/thoughts” begin?
When someone has an attraction/temptation to covet are they also not desiring or potentially dwelling on it?
It comes down to whether they dwell on the thoughts. Now it sounds like a certain poster on here believes that the attraction/temptation and thoughts (if I’m not wrong) are ok as long as they don’t actually commit homosexual acts (physical).
I would say that’s an incorrect view of what the church says. I mean really do you think the Pope would agree with the last paragraph assessment? He said didn’t he that men who have had attractions (homosexual, cannot be priests, unless it’s been years since they’ve had it) This, “I can just dwell on it, it’s not wrong to have the attraction at all in fact it’s perfectly fine and normal, as long as I don’t act on it” is just wrong. It’s sodomy and or lesbianism vile and nasty! (that’s what the attraction is in truth) I’ve seen Mormon men that do that on their “church’s” teachings on homosexuality, one guy actually attends pro homosexual meetings, hugs men and had a picture of himself with his hand on another man’s leg, but…he never commits sodomy. (there was some program about this on tv one night) Ugh…
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pathia
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No, gay men are quite happy being men. Homosexual men are attracted to the male gender, they do not reject being males. I think you are confused here. Transsexuals and Homosexuals are not the same thing. A transsexual might also be a homosexual, but not all homosexuals are transsexuals.
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rlg94086
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Exactly. Therefore, the inclination is not a sin, but dwelling on the thoughts is…that’s where it turns into desire, because you are exercising your will. We should not equate homosexual inclination with desire, because they are not the same thing.
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defenderoftruth
Guest
So someone that has an attraction to children, animals, stealing or fornication or adultery doesn’t need to overcome that?
Just a question goofyJim do you think that the thoughts that go with homosexual “attraction” are ok? I don’t want to misquote you. I’m not trying to be nosy but you say “SSA” is ok but don’t come right out and say the thoughts aren’t. Thinking about sodomy is wrong don’t you think? (homosexaulity)
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agangbern
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“Desire is the action of entertaining the thoughts…?” Where did you get that definition too?
Yes, inclination is not desire when applied to non-rational beings. That is why they are excused of whatever inclinations they make.When a person is inclined to killing people, it’s ok with him for so long as he does not actually kill someone. If he is inclined to raping boys, it’s just as ok too.
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rlg94086
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From every pastoral instruction on sin that I have ever received.
This statement has no meaning…
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rlg94086
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You edited, so I will make additional comments…
First, since you like dictionaries, here is the Webster entry for desire -
I bolded “conscious” because that is important. When thoughts pop up in our heads they are sub-conscious and based upon our inclinations. How we react to them is important.
In your other examples (murder, rape), the situation is the same. If you entertain the angry/violent sub-conscious impulse, you are still sinning. Jesus taught us this. However, the inclination itself is just the cross of temptation we have to bear.
Here is an example of the sort of pastoral counsel I have received:
saint-mike.org/Apologetics/QA/Answers/Spiritual_Warfare/s0402040026.html
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agangbern
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It is pitiful when a rational being would not see the meaning of that statement. “The inclination of the electric post in front our house is 20 degrees.” There, inclination is applied to a non-rational being. And there, surely, it is not desire. It has nothing to do with desire
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rlg94086
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Hahaha…well, yeah…that meaning of the word inclination has absolutely no purpose in the conversation whatsoever.
I thought you meant an inclination toward something that is a non-rational being (i.e. I have an inclination to buy a BMW
).Btw…“pitiful” is a pretty strong word, don’t you think?
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Elric
Guest
No, they accept that they are male (lets not forget that females can be gay as well), they are simply attracted to other males. Which is where the “homo” part of homosexual comes into play.
Im not sure, but are you questioning what I experienced?
Also are you suggesting that homosexuals are inferior to other human beings?
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blackiron1
Guest
Some of you with a few bucks might be interested in this book.
“The Right of Sodomy: Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church” by Randy Engel
rightofsodomy.com
“The Right of Sodomy: Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church” by Randy Engel
rightofsodomy.com
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blackiron1
Guest
Some of you with some $64.00 to spare might be interested in this book.
The Right of Sodomy: Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church by Randy Engel
riteofsodomy.com
The Right of Sodomy: Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church by Randy Engel
riteofsodomy.com
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Gottle_of_Geer
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goofyjim
Guest
As has been pointed out time and time again homosexual attraction does not mean we are spending 24 hours a day in lust. Since we do not know what causes the attraction we cannot say it is a sin. We can say it is not in God’s original design but that means a slight disorder not a sin. For something to be a sin there must be a willful turning away from God. That is just not the case with who you find attractive. It is not chosen.
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agangbern
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To help you remember, here is the actual occurrence:
Originally Posted by Elric View Post
I have experienced the worst (accusations of discrimination over nothing) I have experienced some uncomfortable moments (some have tried to pick me up/proposition me in pubs, one sexually harrassed me at work to the point of where I had to physically confront him and tell him to stop because management did nothing to stop him even after I complained several times)
To that, agangbern replied as follows:
Human rights are natural rights of every man. Recognizing this natural law, the civil law categorically says, “Every person must, in the exercise of this rights and in the performance of his duties, act with justice, give everyone his due, and observe honesty and good faith.” Therefore, in every instance where one’s right is violated, he has always a right to seek redress. That is equal to all. No need of a special law for non-special people.
Is the reply questioning your experience? And is that suggesting that homosexuals are inferior human beings? The answer is very obvious.
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agangbern
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Before I end my participation in this thread, may I know your answer to the following:
- What makes a homosexual a homosexual?
- What is the inclination of a homosexual?
- Is your answer to no. 2) not also true to heterosexuals?
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