your opinions on gays

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gingerfish
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
rlg94086 said:
The problem with that reasoning is twofold. First of all, the idea that it is a genetic issue is only a guess. There is no evidence.
Click to expand...
The evidence abounds, and yet its not enough for a solid conclusion.

The pure guesswork is the idea that homosexuality is learned. There is just ZERO evidence for that. Nada. Zilch.
rlg94086 said:
The second problem is that I don’t think you would excuse any other “disgusting” acts, if they were found to be genetic. For example, if they find that pedophilia or bestiality is a genetic disposition, would you just “learn to tolerate it?”
Click to expand...
simply put, anything that harms another without full consent is intolerable. thats why rape is intolerable even though heterosexual sexual urges are genetic.
 
AgnosTheist said:
The evidence abounds, and yet its not enough for a solid conclusion.

The pure guesswork is the idea that homosexuality is learned. There is just ZERO evidence for that. Nada. Zilch.
Click to expand...
Agreed…which is why the Church does not say homosexuality is learned.
40.png
AgnosTheist:
simply put, anything that harms another without full consent is intolerable. thats why rape is intolerable even though heterosexual sexual urges are genetic.
Click to expand...
That is fine for someone with a relativistic, secular viewpoint, but not for a Catholic.
 
rlg94086 said:
That is fine for someone with a relativistic, secular viewpoint, but not for a Catholic.
Click to expand...
I dont get it, are you saying that the catholic church does not agree with the idea that “anything that harms another without full consent is intolerable”?
 
AgnosTheist said:
I dont get it, are you saying that the catholic church does not agree with the idea that “anything that harms another without full consent is intolerable”?
Click to expand...
No. What I am saying is that it is not limited to that. IOW…there are things like homosexual acts, adultery, etc. that are beyond the “full consent” requirement that the secular world accepts as gospel.
 
rlg94086 said:
No. What I am saying is that it is not limited to that. IOW…there are things like homosexual acts, adultery, etc. that are beyond the “full consent” requirement that the secular world accepts as gospel.
Click to expand...
Hey even the secular world sees adultery as wrong. For adultery harms the person thats been cheated. And yet both catholics & secular people give in to it.

But with homosexual acts who is being harmed? The God who made them that way? And yet your arguments against it can only rely on religious grounds.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Hey even the secular world sees adultery as wrong. For adultery harms the person thats been cheated. And yet both catholics & secular people give in to it.

But with homosexual acts who is being harmed? The God who made them that way? And yet your arguments against it can only rely on religious grounds.
Click to expand...
Gee, I’m sorry. Who said I can’t make religous arguments against homosexuality on a Catholic Forum? 🤷 😛

The title of this thread is “your opinion on gays.” My opinion is formed based on the teaching of the Catholic Church, including the Bible and the Magisterium.

Regarding adultery…okay, point taken - I used a poor example. There are plenty of others…fornication, masturbation, etc…that are completely acceptable from a secular viewpoint. I would offer my “religious grounds” against those as well.
 
AgnosTheist said:
The evidence abounds, and yet its not enough for a solid conclusion.

The pure guesswork is the idea that homosexuality is learned. There is just ZERO evidence for that. Nada. Zilch.

simply put, anything that harms another without full consent is intolerable. thats why rape is intolerable even though heterosexual sexual urges are genetic.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding? The evidence “abounds”? I think not, my friend. There is speculation abounding, that I’ll grant you. But in terms of learned behavior, there is more “evidence” of this being a greater influence than any “gay gene”.

Why don’t you post some of this “abounding” evidence?
 
East_and_West said:
Look buddy. I struggle with homosexual attaction every day. But one thing I do know. Being tempted to lust is one thing and actually lusting is another thing!! I am offended by your posts on this forum. Everyday I struggle to confrom my sexuality to God’s will and its hard. The fact is that people like you push away other homosexuals from trying to live a chaste life. LORD have mercy!!!
Click to expand...
Praise God! You are a true witness to all who struggle with sinful inclinations (which is all of us!).
 
blessedtoo said:
Are you kidding? The evidence “abounds”? I think not, my friend. There is speculation abounding, that I’ll grant you. But in terms of learned behavior, there is more “evidence” of this being a greater influence than any “gay gene”.

Why don’t you post some of this “abounding” evidence?
Click to expand...
I dont mean any disrespect but, are you serious???

Learned behavior, where exactly do they learn it from?
 
AgnosTheist said:
But with homosexual acts who is being harmed? The God who made them that way? And yet your arguments against it can only rely on religious grounds.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the Lord God was the one who made the person a homosexual?
 
AgnosTheist said:
its all in here complete with references:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Biological_explanations
Click to expand...
First, it’s Wikipedia. Hardly a reliable source. But let’s use it anyway.

All of the “evidence” is collected under the heading:
**
Theories on homosexuality
Click to expand...
**
****The ****American Academy of Pediatrics has stated, “Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences.”[72] The American Psychological Association has stated that “there are probably many reasons for a person’s sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people”.

In 1993, Dean Hamer found the genetic marker Xq28 on the X chromosome. Hamer’s study found a link between the Xq28 marker and male homosexuality,[75]** but the original study’s results have been disputed.**
Click to expand...
**
**In addition, all the other “proofs” provided do not indicate that any genetic “cause” has been isolated. The correlations between brain size, left-handed-ness, etc., certainly do not prove anything. Regarding the study of twins, check this out:

everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1513353
Sociobiological theories, on the other hand, concentrate on genetic mechanisms for the transmission of homosexuality, while accepting that such mechanisms may operate by influencing the environment which an individual experiences during development. The gestational neurohormonal theory allows for significant control from both genetic and environmental factors.

The sociobiology of homosexuality lies more in the realm of the hypothetical than the proven, and neurohormonal theories still require much corroboratory research.
tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/theories.html#wic
Click to expand...
Identical twins have identical genes. If homosexuality was a biological condition produced inescapably by the genes (e.g. eye color), then if one identical twin was homosexual, in 100% of the cases his brother would be too. But we know that only about 38% of the time is the identical twin brother homosexual.
narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html
Click to expand...
 
blessedtoo said:
In addition, all the other “proofs” provided do not indicate that any genetic “cause” has been isolated. The correlations between brain size, left-handed-ness, etc., certainly do not prove anything. Regarding the study of twins, check this out:
Click to expand...
ahem:

“Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences.”

Though we cant p(name removed by moderator)oint the exact cause, it is evident that genes have some role in it.
blessedtoo said:
narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html
Click to expand...
what can you expect from an association for the ‘therapy of homosexuality’. please use a neutral source, friend. 🙂
 
blessedtoo said:
Identical twins have identical genes. If homosexuality was a biological condition produced inescapably by the genes (e.g. eye color), then if one identical twin was homosexual, in 100% of the cases his brother would be too. But we know that only about 38% of the time is the identical twin brother homosexual.
narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html
Click to expand...
38% is a heck of alot higher than 3-4% the level of homosexuality that occurs in non-twin brothers. I love how everyone totally ignores that part. This correlation holds even if they don’t live together, ie: adopted by separate foster families.

Also, NARTH is hardly an unbiased source, if I could sue them for what they did to me as a child I would. I am traumatized to this day physically and mentally by their ‘therapies’. I am unable to hug my own father without having a panic attack, in fact touching any male relative sparks the same reaction, all created by the mental scars of their damage to me. I fight it to this day, finally having gotten to the point where I no longer need medication, but it’s still a struggle.
 
I’m not interested in the “battle of the links” to prove the origin of homosexual inclinations. The “cause” is irrelevent because the actions themselves are always voluntary.

The brains of alcoholics have been found to be larger than those of non-alcoholics. Yet a definitive genetic cause is still considered theoretical. One thing is for sure: if such a genetic cause were indisputably discovered, it would not change the way we view alcoholic drinking. We would not encourage alcoholics to drink to excess because they were “born that way”.

Alzheimer’s patients have been found to have different brain size as well. We consider this an abnormality, not something to be celebrated or used as validation that this disorder is good. In both examples, genetic theories only reinforce the concept that such people require help to overcome this anomaly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top