Your thoughts on Planned Parenthood?

[estesbob]

Not based on the documentary I saw. Do you want me to send you some links?

I have seen the cartoons, Context, context , context. The cartoons were much like the Movie Play “The Producers”. If you take the tune"Springtime for Hitler and Germany" by itself one could conclude Mel Brooks supported Hitler.

 

[littlepaperstar]

I have seen the cartoons, Context, context , context. The cartoons were much like the Movie Play “The Producers”. If you take the tune"Springtime for Hitler and Germany" by itself one could conclude Mel Brooks supported Hitler.

Okay, but I was going on based what the documentary said, which was the opposite. But I have heard wrong info on tv before so it wouldn’t be the first time.

Cheers

Jen

 

[Mirdath]

Well, I kind of guessed that you are pro-choice. Well, I once was too. But let me ask you since you didn’t answer because it was in you opinion a loaded question. Do you disagree with the idea of the killing on the child or is it because you don’t believe it is a child?

To put it briefly (and this will answer Rand’s question too) I believe that while life begins at conception (and I fully agree with calling out people who say otherwise – cell is the basic unit of life and all that), humanity begins at birth. And further I consider the mother more important than the unborn child; she is already a contributing member of society, while the fetus can make no such claim.

 

[st_lucy]

To put it briefly (and this will answer Rand’s question too) I believe that while life begins at conception (and I fully agree with calling out people who say otherwise – cell is the basic unit of life and all that), humanity begins at birth. And further I consider the mother more important than the unborn child; she is already a contributing member of society, while the fetus can make no such claim.

Mirdath,

First of all thank you replying. You stated that the Mother is already a contributing member of society and the fetus is not. With this do you believe that a five year old is not a contributing member of society? Or how about someone who is mentally or even physically disabled are they not contributing members. And if not what should we do to these non-contributors?

I look forward to hear back from you.

 

[Bennie_P]

To put it briefly (and this will answer Rand’s question too) I believe that while life begins at conception (and I fully agree with calling out people who say otherwise – cell is the basic unit of life and all that), humanity begins at birth. And further I consider the mother more important than the unborn child; she is already a contributing member of society, while the fetus can make no such claim.

So your definition of humanity is based on one’s ongoing contribution to Society?

Those that fail to contribute, are subject for elimination?

Such as the handicap? The elderly? prisoners? cronic unemployed?

 

[estesbob]

To put it briefly (and this will answer Rand’s question too) I believe that while life begins at conception (and I fully agree with calling out people who say otherwise – cell is the basic unit of life and all that), humanity begins at birth. And further I consider the mother more important than the unborn child; she is already a contributing member of society, while the fetus can make no such claim.

Of course the Mother having value or the belief she is more imortant than her child has nothing whatsoever to do with whether she has the right to kill her chid. But like I said, euphanism after euphanism but never adress the horror you support. Note to all that the garndady of all euphansims has now entered the discussion-after all the child is JUST a “fetus”.

 

[estesbob]

So your definition of humanity is based on one’s ongoing contribution to Society?

Those that fail to contribute, are subject for elimination?

Such as the handicap? The elderly? prisoners? cronic unemployed?

Only if you get to call them fetuses frst.

 

[Mirdath]

Mirdath,

First of all thank you replying. You stated that the Mother is already a contributing member of society and the fetus is not. With this do you believe that a five year old is not a contributing member of society? Or how about someone who is mentally or even physically disabled are they not contributing members. And if not what should we do to these non-contributors?

I look forward to hear back from you.

‘At birth’ is pretty clear, no? Even an infant has made some independent contributions, as have the disabled. It is at birth that one becomes a member of society, not before.
BennieP:

So your definition of humanity is based on one’s ongoing contribution to Society?

Yes, but I don’t think you think it means what I think it means. It’s ongoing and evolving – after all, I doubt even you would consider giving toddlers full adult rights – and not necessarily measurable by any statistic like wage or IQ.

 

[Bennie_P]

‘At birth’ is pretty clear, no? Even an infant has made some independent contributions, as have the disabled. It is at birth that one becomes a member of society, not before…

75% percent of the Blind are unemployed. If it is known before birth that a child was going to be born blind, then should that child be aborted?

Yes, but I don’t think you think it means what I think it means. It’s ongoing and evolving – after all, I doubt even you would consider giving toddlers full adult rights – and not necessarily measurable by any statistic like wage or IQ.

So life is a full right only for adults?

 

[st_lucy]

‘At birth’ is pretty clear, no? Even an infant has made some independent contributions, as have the disabled. It is at birth that one becomes a member of society, not before.

I guess I must be a little slow here but can you explain to me what a one month old can contribute that he couldn’t contribute when he was unborn. We are both in agreement that his life did began at conception right per what you stated here:

I believe that while life begins at conception (and I fully agree with calling out people who say otherwise – cell is the basic unit of life and all that), humanity begins at birth.

So maybe if you can explain what constitutes contribution to society.

Again thank you for your reply.

 

[Mirdath]

75% percent of the Blind are unemployed. If it is known before birth that a child was going to be born blind, then should that child be aborted?

No.

So life is a full right only for adults?

It’s not even a ‘full right’ for adults: the state can remove it if it so chooses (though I’ll note that I’m generally anti-death penalty).
st lucy:

I guess I must be a little slow here but can you explain to me what a one month old can contribute that he couldn’t contribute when he was unborn.

Be visible, give and respond to affection, breathe, pump his or her own blood?

Let me say here that I don’t like abortion and don’t know of anyone who does. It’s not something one does on a slow weekend to liven things up a bit. It’s a response to emotional, physical, or societal distress, and while it is not necessarily always the most desirable answer, in some situations it’s the only one.

You’re not even going to be able to begin eliminating abortion unless and until you solve the problem of abandoned pregnant women – whether abandoned by men, by their family, or by society in general. Since most people here seem so in favor of the death penalty for certain high crimes, why not make it the punishment for abandoning a pregnant woman? That’d get results.

 

[estesbob]

You’re not even going to be able to begin eliminating abortion unless and until you solve the problem of abandoned pregnant women – whether abandoned by men, by their family, or by society in general. Since most people here seem so in favor of the death penalty for certain high crimes, why not make it the punishment for abandoning a pregnant woman? That’d get results.

Another strawman . I have counseled hundreds of prgannt women along with, in many cases their significant others.-what you say is simpy not true.

Note we now see another comon ploy of those trying to defend the indefensible. Having played the euphanism card, the better dead than underfed card, the "its all our cruel societies fault card you now embark on the "pro-lifers who support the death penalty are hypocrites card. I am sure we will soon see the "we cant offord all those kids card and of course the bogus science card-you kow the "child is just a “mindlesss clump of cells” or the child is a “parasite”, or the child is part of the Mothers Body.

12,000 children have been dismembered and thrown out with the garbage since this thread started.

 

[st_lucy]

Be visible, give and respond to affection, breathe, pump his or her own blood?

1. Be visible - What about shut ins or those who have a phobia of people and there for are not visible to the outside world?
2. Affection - What about those who are unable to show affection (and just for the record my son in utro would kick like crazy when his sister was audibly visible)
3. pump his own blood - correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure a heart start to pump around week 6 or 8.

Let me say here that I don’t like abortion and don’t know of anyone who does. It’s not something one does on a slow weekend to liven things up a bit.

Lets hope that most don’t feel joy to abort. Although I have heard a radio station who was giving prizes for those who have had the most abortion. Let me just say it was sickening to hear those who called in rather proud of their numbers.

It’s a response to emotional, physical, or societal distress, and while it is not necessarily always the most desirable answer, in some situations it’s the only one.

I agree, but having abortion on demand does not help the emotional, physical or societal distress. Until we address the actual results of abortion and not hide it under the carpet we will never stop or be able to help the millions of women who are scared by abortion.

You’re not even going to be able to begin eliminating abortion unless and until you solve the problem of abandoned pregnant women – whether abandoned by men, by their family, or by society in general.

agreed. But we as a society also need to address the importance of life at all stages not only those that are beneficial or noticeable.

Since most people here seem so in favor of the death penalty for certain high crimes, why not make it the punishment for abandoning a pregnant woman? That’d get results.

I agree, I am against all aspects of the culture of death. And again until we as a society address the importance of life we will only than began to see less abandoned pregnant women.

Again thank you for your reply.

 

[Bennie_P]

You’re not even going to be able to begin eliminating abortion unless and until you solve the problem of abandoned pregnant women – whether abandoned by men, by their family, or by society in general. Since most people here seem so in favor of the death penalty for certain high crimes, why not make it the punishment for abandoning a pregnant woman? That’d get results.

I don’t believe you understand Catholic teaching at all.
Myself I’m pro-life from conception to natural death, as the Church teaches. That means not only am I pro-life for the unborn, I opoose war, euthansia, and the death penalty.

Being pro-family and pro-life, I believe men have the responsibilty to take care of the children they father, in marrage or out.
In my parish we have had several women that have had children out or wedlock, their children are cuddled, hug and kissed just as much as the children born under the idea situation of having mothers and fathers that are married. We support each other in the good situations and the bad. We don’t shun unwed mothers, but actually praise them for choosing life, despite the mistakes or other bad chooses they may have made.

We teach our children to embrass a chaste life, to keep themselves pure until they are married, but if they don’t live up to what we see as the idea, we welcome them back with love, and support as they struggle in their consequences from making bad choices. We don’t shun them, as we are accused of by those of secular world. For we know that we all fall very short to the idea of perfection and we are not saints.

What makes a good Catholic is realizing that we are sinners and not using our shortcomings and those of others as an excuss to live in our sins of selfisness, but with the Grace of God, try to overcome them.

We are optimists, we believe in a better world that in the long run will not choose death as a way to happiness. For we believe in the One that choose death in order to give us life. By His example, we learn to grow in love.

Planned Parenthood and those that don’t believe have sacrificed millions in the name of choice, but accuse the Church and those of us that make up the body of Christ being uncaring, but that is a lie, far from the truth.

May God bless you, hope to see you in heaven.

 

[hasikelee]

‘At birth’ is pretty clear, no? Even an infant has made some independent contributions, as have the disabled. It is at birth that one becomes a member of society, not before.

This has always been an interesting speculation for me. I wonder, when you say at birth, do you mean when the mother begins to experience contractions? If so, what about contractions that start and stop, or early contractions?

And, further, by birth do you mean vaginal or cesarean? If the preborn human is halfway through the canal, does that count? What if only the head is inside the woman, such as in the early form of infanticide where they deliver the baby breech and stab the baby in the skull? According to your vague “birth” definition, is that not killing a person?

What if the baby is almost born all the way, but one toe is still inside? Does that mean the baby is not born yet?

Exactly what did you decide constitutes as born? Does the placenta have to be eliminated as well? Does the umbilical cord need to be cut?

What if the baby is completely born but not breathing yet?

Or is a baby born when he or she begins to cry?

And what about pre-term babies born at for example, 28 weeks?

How about twins? What if one baby is completely delivered and the other baby is still in the womb or the canal? Does that make one an independent contributing member of society and one a human not yet person? Why?

I am also interested in your opinion of a contributing member of society. Does one have to be a certain race or gender to contribute? How exactly does a baby born for 2 seconds contribute more than a baby just about to go down the birth canal?

 

[whatevergirl]

The only thing good about Planned Parenthood is that they offer free or low cost health care to women. But really I can’t say that this is really that much of a good thing because there are other clinics that do just the same thing without providing abortions! I also don’t like the distribution of abortifacient birth control. Giving out free condoms and spermicide is one thing but giving out abortifacient birth control is just wrong.

The problem with Planned Parenthood is that they don’t give balanced advice. They are more apt to coaxing a woman to have an abortion, than share with her other alternatives. Also–they don’t share the stats for what happens to a woman’s body, emotions, spirituality, etc…after she has an abortion. If they started giving out more balanced info…and allowed women to make INFORMED decisions, their abortion ‘sales’ would decline. They are all about the almighty dollar, sadly enough. Not a thing to do with women’s health.

 

[estesbob]

The problem with Planned Parenthood is that they don’t give balanced advice. They are more apt to coaxing a woman to have an abortion, than share with her other alternatives. Also–they don’t share the stats for what happens to a woman’s body, emotions, spirituality, etc…after she has an abortion. If they started giving out more balanced info…and allowed women to make INFORMED decisions, their abortion ‘sales’ would decline. They are all about the almighty dollar, sadly enough. Not a thing to do with women’s health.

They clam to be pro-choice but the oinly choice they support is killing the child.

 

[TheApologist]

I don’t believe you understand Catholic teaching at all.
Myself I’m pro-life from conception to natural death, as the Church teaches. That means not only am I pro-life for the unborn, I opoose war, euthansia, and the death penalty.

Just a side note…I oppose UNJUST war. Also, the Church teaches the death penalty is acceptable in the very, very limited circumstance that the criminal is a threat to society even in prison(note: very rare).

Also don’t forget…no extraordinary life-extension means!

 

[whatevergirl]

They clam to be pro-choice but the oinly choice they support is killing the child.

exactly…

It’s fascinating how we can twist words in this society to make something appear…ethical. It’s not murder, it’s a choice. I have a friend who is “pro-choice” but she is thinks that eating meat is sinful. “Killing a cow is worse than killing a human being” I asked her, and she replied…well I don’t look at it that way. Hmmm…how does she look at it?

Bottom line…it’s *convenient *to not eat meat. Doesn’t require a whole heck of a lot of effort, except perhaps some changes in meal choices, and will power. It doesn’t inconvenience my friend to defend cows, whales, etc…but her reply infers that if she had to deal with an unplanned pregnancy–that would inconvenience her. We are a society of convenience. That’s why women are easily convinced to make this terrible choice. They are convinced that the baby will be nothing more than an inconvenience, etc…Simply put, it’s easy to stand up for causes that don’t involve our personal lives.