Your thoughts on "Raising Hands" to the Lord for Prayer or Worship

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firstmode said:
Gabriel, thank you for responding.

I am not sure if you were trying to be defensive against Raising Hands, or defensive FOR bowing or prostrating, or not being defensive at all and just stating facts.

I hope you do not think I was belittling bowing or prostrating in any way. I just also see the raising of hands towards the Lord as a posture of reverance, honor, and worship. It is a physical action done to exalt God with all that we are, much like bowing.

“In the Catholic liturgy, we are never entertained by music or lifting of hands in worship.”

Going to church for protestants is not about entertainment. We experience great joy when worshipping the Lord and yes… there is an act of being entertained happening with the joy of worship. It is a very good time.

Lifting up hands in worship is a scriptural form of reverence for the Lord God almighty!

Psalm 134:1-3 (New King James Version)

Psalm 134

A Song of Ascents.

1 Behold, bless the LORD,
All you servants of the LORD,
Who by night stand in the house of the LORD!

2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary,
And bless the LORD.

3 The LORD who made heaven and earth
Bless you from Zion!

Psalm 150 (New King James Version)

Psalm 150

Let All Things Praise the LORD
1 Praise the LORD!
Code: 
     Praise God in **His sanctuary**; 
     Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
2 Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!

3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!

4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!

5 Praise Him with loud cymbals;
**Praise Him with clashing cymbals! **

6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Code: 
     **Praise the LORD! **
Look at all of those exclamation points! Look at all of that EXCITEMENT and ENTERTAINMENT in worshiping the Lord!!

I understand that the Mass has taken a form of reverentail quietness and silence. God loves that as well. I guess I do not understand how the reveratial act of Raising Hands to the Lord and the reverential act of playing CLASHING cymbals, lutes, harps, and flutes is seen as some sort of ENTERTAINMENT and LIVE SHOW.

I am confused by your statements Gabriel.
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Psalms 150 even mentions DANCING! as a form of worship to God. DANCING!!!
 
NHInsider said:
I don’t think there is anything liturgically incorrect with raising the hands in prayer, but like Kalt, I think in places where it is uncommon it becomes a problem because it is distracting. I think it is more acceptable in a prayer/praise meeting than at Mass, unless you are in a place where culturally people are accustomed to the raised hands and so not distracted by it (and I’ve never been to a Mass where this is the case, but certainly in my years as a Baptist there were churches where it was commonplace).

Hand-holding during the Lord’s Prayer is a banned topic. . . .
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I didn’t see it listed in the banned topics list.???
 
I work hard with my hands in paint and grease. (boat repair)
No matter how hard I scrub them they are stained and very calloused.
I’ll keep my hands folded in prayer, thank you very much.😃
 
Dancing is allowed in African and certain Asian countries in Catholic worship, but not in the rest of the world because it leads to different connotations that don’t reflect our beliefs.
 
KathleenGee said:
Dancing is allowed in African and certain Asian countries in Catholic worship, but not in the rest of the world because it leads to different connotations that don’t reflect our beliefs.
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I have to admit those provisions bothered me when I first heard about them. It suggest that those people who are allowed to dance, use other forms of music or do anything which the majority can’t are seen as backwards by the leadership thus can’t do things the right way so they make special allowances for them. As opposed to we have a standard and you must reach it:shrug:
 
firstmode said:
Hey Guys, just wanted to start a peaceful discussion on “Raising Hands” to the Lord for various reasons.

I do not think it is a requirement, but like prostrating oneself before the Lord on your knees, with a simple bow, or prostrating ones self before the Lord on your knees bowing your head to touch the floor, I see it as a worshipful and reverential position.

What are your guys thoughts on this?
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It’s biblical.
Therefore it’s Catholic.
It has it’s place.

Raising hands unto the Lord
youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4tEFPuhYI

Prostration
liturgy.co.nz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ordination-08-66.jpg
 
KathleenGee said:
Because of the swine flu, we were told not to hold hands at Mass, etc.

Our pastor added this was the opportunity to discuss the work of hands at Mass.

He said the traditional way was the use of hands at the Our Father…in the Orans position, hands lifted up at our sides open, inside hand out and pointing outward.
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At the Cathedral in town they now have installed hand sanitizer to squirt on yourself before you dip into the holy water font.:rolleyes:
 
4Squarebaby…

You have to bring Christ to people where they are at…and inculturate Christ…ongoing work.

Dancing is so much a part of Africa and some parts of Asia…they are very communal and integrated in their social relationships whereas we are more individualistic and independent.

The West tends to fall into the profane with dance at liturgy…people tend to focus on the dancer in a different way…
 
Graceandglory,

Yes we have the sanitizers as well…and then a short while ago, a lady who does alot of work in the parish, very healthy, came down with swine flu…so as of last night…we are not allowed to do so except with our own approximates.
 
KathleenGee said:
4Squarebaby…

You have to bring Christ to people where they are at…and inculturate Christ…ongoing work.

Dancing is so much a part of Africa and some parts of Asia…they are very communal and integrated in their social relationships whereas we are more individualistic and independent.

The West tends to fall into the profane with dance at liturgy…people tend to focus on the dancer in a different way…
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Unfortunately we have let the presuppositions and effects of our culture rob us of a way to worship God that is biblical. Very sad.

I dance when I am by myself, I believe God loves it as I do it to praise music in worship of Him.

I am not saying all of these things are appropriate for your Mass, all I am saying is that they are valid ways of worshiping the Lord and showing reverence to him.
 
firstmode said:
Unfortunately we have let the presuppositions and effects of our culture rob us of a way to worship God that is biblical. Very sad.
.
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Just curious,
was dance a part of TEMPLE worship in the Old Testament?
 
graceandglory said:
Just curious,
was dance a part of TEMPLE worship in the Old Testament?
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I did my own research.

No. It was never in reference to temple worship or congregational worship in the Old Testament.

I just went and read all the passages in Scripture that talk about dance. In each case it was either related to false idol worship or festival celebrations, or as a result of some amazing occasion in Israel’s history, like after the parting of the Red Sea. In every biblical occurrence of dancing before the Lord, this was an individual response, not a prescription for temple worship.

According to the Old Testament, dance is a part of celebrating the Feast Days, and sometimes unto the Lord, but there is no biblical reference to dancing being done as a part of “corporate worship” or “Temple worship” or Church.
 
firstmode said:
Unfortunately we have let the presuppositions and effects of our culture rob us of a way to worship God that is biblical. Very sad.
**
I dance when I am by myself,** I believe God loves it as I do it to praise music in worship of Him.

I am not saying all of these things are appropriate for your Mass, all I am saying is that they are valid ways of worshiping the Lord and showing reverence to him.
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I think that is how it is pre-scribed in the Old Testament. Something to do by yourself, not in Church.
**
Protestant article from Christianity Today**
Did the early Christians Dance in Church?
christianitytoday.com/ch/asktheexpert/apr29.html
(Saint) Cyprian, though, writing about a decade later (about 250 AD) , makes some distinction between godly and ungodly dance: “The fact that David led the dances in the presence of God is no sanction for faithful Christians to occupy seats in the public theater. For David did not twist his limbs about in obscene movements. He did not depict in his dancing the story of Grecian lust.”***
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**
Catholic Encyclopedia: Dancing**
newadvent.org/cathen/04618b.htm
 
SteveVH said:
Is anyone old enough to remember when holding hands during the Our Father was new? I have to agree, depending upon the parish you are in, that raising you hands in prayer could be distracting if it is not in common practice. We should never draw attention away from our Lord during Mass. However, I have also been in parishes that really encourage it (especially youth Masses) and it is the norm rather than the exception. When that is the case it is a beautiful thing to worship with your entire being, including your body. If you look at the early Church, it is very Catholic.
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I’m old enough to remember when holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer wasn’t done at all. I’m still not a big fan of it but sometimes join in. I prefer the Orans (hands raised) position for that prayer…liturgically it’s “more correct” than holding hands. I’m a Catholic Charismatic and have been to many Charismatic masses where the orans position of prayer is standard.
 
The orans position of the hands is only appropriate for the priest during Mass. The laity are not suppose to raise their hands in this position. There is a long post on this under the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.

I believe raising the hands and holding hands during the Our Father came from the Charismatic movement. If you think about it, it is a very protestant tradition of non liturgical churches.

I used to attend Charismatic prayer meetings and some Masses and found inappropriate jestures taking place during the Mass. At a prayer meeting it is a very different thing to raise your hands or pray for others. I prefer that a priest who has the gift of healing pray over me. I think that my experience has left me with some misgivings about the movement.

If one wants to just place their hands palms us where it is not obvious to anyone I suppose that would be fine, but when someone is raising their hands during Mass, to me it is very disruptive, it takes the focus off the priest and onto the the person.

I have no problem with Charismatic groups as long as they are led by an orthodox priest. The one I belonged to was very large and the lay leader of it left the Church and took at least 100 members with him to start his own church. This is my problem with the movement. There are people who like power and use it to lead people astray.

I have told my daughter if she goes to a bible study it must be a Catholic one, and if something doesn’t sound orthodox and non Catholic in the teachings she should not attend.

My friend has attended some type of group in her Catholic parish which is teaching very non Catholic teachings.

All worship must be done by the guidelines of the Church. If anyone is interested they can find the post on the orans position on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum dated around November 26. Fr. Davis explains the rules for laity and the priest.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
BernadetteM said:
The orans position of the hands is only appropriate for the priest during Mass. The laity are not suppose to raise their hands in this position. There is a long post on this under the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.

I believe raising the hands and holding hands during the Our Father came from the Charismatic movement. If you think about it, it is a very protestant tradition of non liturgical churches.

I used to attend Charismatic prayer meetings and some Masses and found inappropriate jestures taking place during the Mass. At a prayer meeting it is a very different thing to raise your hands or pray for others. I prefer that a priest who has the gift of healing pray over me. I think that my experience has left me with some misgivings about the movement.

If one wants to just place their hands palms us where it is not obvious to anyone I suppose that would be fine, but when someone is raising their hands during Mass, to me it is very disruptive, it takes the focus off the priest and onto the the person.

I have no problem with Charismatic groups as long as they are led by an orthodox priest. The one I belonged to was very large and the lay leader of it left the Church and took at least 100 members with him to start his own church. This is my problem with the movement. There are people who like power and use it to lead people astray.

I have told my daughter if she goes to a bible study it must be a Catholic one, and if something doesn’t sound orthodox and non Catholic in the teachings she should not attend.

My friend has attended some type of group in her Catholic parish which is teaching very non Catholic teachings.

All worship must be done by the guidelines of the Church. If anyone is interested they can find the post on the orans position on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum dated around November 26. Fr. Davis explains the rules for laity and the priest.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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With regard to the section in bold, it fulfills my thoughts on the subject.
 
It is not very sad that African and some Asian countries can combine dancing into the certain parts of the liturgy.

You have to know the liturgy of the Mass to understand the perspective.

Most of us don’t even want to dance as many of us are of 2,000 years of Western culture…we come in the spirit of Adoration. The Mass is where all come to worship the Lord and we are all on different levels, so it is only right and proper that we have a standard that includes all.

We have prayer meetings where people can pray more openly with praise and emotions.

The orens is the posture of the priests’ hands during Mass, but he told us that is how Christians in the past used their hands, rather than the recent holding of hands at the Our Father…
 
BernadetteM said:
The orans position of the hands is only appropriate for the priest during Mass. The laity are not suppose to raise their hands in this position. There is a long post on this under the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.

I believe raising the hands and holding hands during the Our Father came from the Charismatic movement. If you think about it, it is a very protestant tradition of non liturgical churches.

I used to attend Charismatic prayer meetings and some Masses and found inappropriate jestures taking place during the Mass. At a prayer meeting it is a very different thing to raise your hands or pray for others. I prefer that a priest who has the gift of healing pray over me. I think that my experience has left me with some misgivings about the movement.

If one wants to just place their hands palms us where it is not obvious to anyone I suppose that would be fine, but when someone is raising their hands during Mass, to me it is very disruptive, it takes the focus off the priest and onto the the person.

I have no problem with Charismatic groups as long as they are led by an orthodox priest. The one I belonged to was very large and the lay leader of it left the Church and took at least 100 members with him to start his own church. This is my problem with the movement. There are people who like power and use it to lead people astray.

I have told my daughter if she goes to a bible study it must be a Catholic one, and if something doesn’t sound orthodox and non Catholic in the teachings she should not attend.

My friend has attended some type of group in her Catholic parish which is teaching very non Catholic teachings.

All worship must be done by the guidelines of the Church. If anyone is interested they can find the post on the orans position on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum dated around November 26. Fr. Davis explains the rules for laity and the priest.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Bernadette:

I’m sorry but you are very mistaken. Yes, we are not to duplicate the positions of the priest at Mass; that is for him alone. But the orans position is not protestant, but was the common position of hands in the early Church. It may not be appropriate in certain parishes if it draws attention away from the Mass, as has been stated in prior posts, but that is completely a cultural thing. There are many times when it can be appropriate depending on the local culture of your parish, such as while singing and praying the Our Father.

In my diocese, (Diocese of Pueblo, Colorado) we have been directed to actually use the orans position in place of holding hands, but it is to be a slow transition and one we have yet to make. In other words, the “guidlines of the Church” can and do change when speaking about rubrics.

God bless you.
 
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