Your thoughts on "Raising Hands" to the Lord for Prayer or Worship

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Lutheranteach said:
I’m a head bowed hands folded kind of guy.
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Me too. During prayers everyone around me could be doing the hokey pokey for all I care… MY eyes are closed and my head is bowed and everything else is tuned out. It’s just me & God at that moment.
 
4Squarebaby said:
I have to admit those provisions bothered me when I first heard about them. It suggest that those people who are allowed to dance, use other forms of music or do anything which the majority can’t are seen as backwards by the leadership thus can’t do things the right way so they make special allowances for them. As opposed to we have a standard and you must reach it:shrug:
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But the idea that a particular way of celebrating the liturgy is a “standard” and other people have to reach it is a total misunderstanding of the purpose of liturgy. And the Church is universal, not European.

To have a valid Eucharist there are actually only a few elements that are required. The rest of what is built around it is for the benefit of the people who are there. It does a number of things that are considered important and worthwhile. It instructs the people in the meaning of the Eucharist. It helps put us, both intellectually and emotionally, in a frame of mind that is appropriate for receiving the sacrament.

Because we are physical beings as well as rational ones, it is also ok to use physical props directed toward this end. Colours, music, vestments, visual arts, and even movement.

But in all cases, these things have to work toward the correct understanding of the Eucharist. With the arts, what works intellectually and psychologically may vary somewhat by culture.

I can easily imagine a culture where passing the peace by shaking hands might not work, if for example it is concidered liscentious for men and women to touch in public.

In any case, it is not true that there has been some unvarrying Catholic “standard”. The Church has always adopted what is good from cultures it encounters, because it is true to God’s nature that all that is good will be broiught into him. And even our European liturgy has adopted pre-Christian elements, and it has also varied within Europe. What you see in a Cathedral might be inappropriate at a local parish, and might be different again from a convent.
 
firstmode said:
Gabriel, thank you for responding.

I am not sure if you were trying to be defensive against Raising Hands, or defensive FOR bowing or prostrating, or not being defensive at all and just stating facts.

I hope you do not think I was belittling bowing or prostrating in any way. I just also see the raising of hands towards the Lord as a posture of reverance, honor, and worship. It is a physical action done to exalt God with all that we are, much like bowing.

“In the Catholic liturgy, we are never entertained by music or lifting of hands in worship.”

Going to church for protestants is not about entertainment. We experience great joy when worshipping the Lord and yes… there is an act of being entertained happening with the joy of worship. It is a very good time.

Look at all of those exclamation points! Look at all of that EXCITEMENT and ENTERTAINMENT in worshiping the Lord!!

I understand that the Mass has taken a form of reverentail quietness and silence. God loves that as well. I guess I do not understand how the reveratial act of Raising Hands to the Lord and the reverential act of playing CLASHING cymbals, lutes, harps, and flutes is seen as some sort of ENTERTAINMENT and LIVE SHOW.

I am confused by your statements Gabriel.
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Greetings firstmode; and peace be with you; I have taken no offense, and hope my commentary of the Mass does not offend you.

If you would allow me, I would like to clarify my position of Worship here not in a Catholic official capacity but, from a Catholic who practices the mysteries of God;

You mention “raising hands”, for me there is a time for this song and dance. I celebrate going in to worship with hands raised and dancing and after worship not during when Jesus is present to me body, blood, soul and divinity.

Let me explain what I mean using biblical analogies. The Catholic Mass is a wedding feast of the Lamb (Revelation19:1-16) we sing and dance during the celebration of the wedding feast, this takes place in community and ministries which prepares me (us) to enter into the wedding chamber where the wedding bride and her groom meet in the “Holy of Holies”, when the bride (Catholic Church) and her husband the groom (Jesus Christ) meet face to face in Mass, it is here why the bride celebrated in song and dance prior to communion with her husband in the “Apocalypsis”, or Revelations where the bride and groom unveil each other and become one body in Jesus Christ.

It is here where Jesus and his bride consumate the New and everlasting covenant in Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity in the secret place, where we are given the hidden manna. This is the Mass. There is no need to raise the hands in praise and worship when the bride groom is present before his bride and takes her into the wedding chamber, again where the two become one. Then after the wedding consumation has taken place in time from eternity, the bride leaves in song and dance.

So for me to raise hands while in the “True Presence of Jesus Christ” this is not a symbolic presence that is practiced by Catholics, is where “Love” abounds for God is Love, and when the bride and groom enter into this mystery of God, where both are present to each other, the hand raising celebration and dancing has ceased because the bride is in her lovers hands, where she remains still in his presence when “Love” becomes a reality from eternity in time.

I am not comparing types of worship, I am only revealing the Mass from a laymans perspective. I can assure all that I revealed here, is based on biblical “New Covenant” principles and Apostolic Traditional practice which dates back to Apostolic times before the bible was canonnized by the Catholic Church in 397 a.d.

This is why I stated “In the Catholic liturgy, we are never entertained by music or lifting of hands in worship.”
Because, the bride (Catholic Church) and her husband (Jesus Christ) are no longer celebrating in song and dance (this is done before the Mass and after the Mass in community), but are consumating the wedding feast **when both become One flesh **in the Mass celebration of consumation.

There is much more to expand in the mysteries of God from the Mass. The biblical analogy that Jesus teaches about the “King who gave a wedding for his son” from Matthew 22:1-14. The interesting thing about Jesus teaching about his Kingdom is that you have to wear a wedding garment in order to enter the wedding feast, this white garment that scripture reveals is baptism where “many are invited but few are chosen”.

peace be with you
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Greetings firstmode; and peace be with you; I have taken no offense, and hope my commentary of the Mass does not offend you.

If you would allow me, I would like to clarify my position of Worship here not in a Catholic official capacity but, from a Catholic who practices the mysteries of God;

You mention “raising hands”, for me there is a time for this song and dance. I celebrate going in to worship with hands raised and dancing and after worship not during when Jesus is present to me body, blood, soul and divinity.

Let me explain what I mean using biblical analogies. The Catholic Mass is a wedding feast of the Lamb (Revelation19:1-16) we sing and dance during the celebration of the wedding feast, this takes place in community and ministries which prepares me (us) to enter into the wedding chamber where the wedding bride and her groom meet in the “Holy of Holies”, when the bride (Catholic Church) and her husband the groom (Jesus Christ) meet face to face in Mass, it is here why the bride celebrated in song and dance prior to communion with her husband in the “Apocalypsis”, or Revelations where the bride and groom unveil each other and become one body in Jesus Christ.

It is here where Jesus and his bride consumate the New and everlasting covenant in Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity in the secret place, where we are given the hidden manna. This is the Mass. There is no need to raise the hands in praise and worship when the bride groom is present before his bride and takes her into the wedding chamber, again where the two become one. Then after the wedding consumation has taken place in time from eternity, the bride leaves in song and dance.

So for me to raise hands while in the “True Presence of Jesus Christ” this is not a symbolic presence that is practiced by Catholics, is where “Love” abounds for God is Love, and when the bride and groom enter into this mystery of God, where both are present to each other, the hand raising celebration and dancing has ceased because the bride is in her lovers hands, where she remains still in his presence when “Love” becomes a reality from eternity in time.

I am not comparing types of worship, I am only revealing the Mass from a laymans perspective. I can assure all that I revealed here, is based on biblical “New Covenant” principles and Apostolic Traditional practice which dates back to Apostolic times before the bible was canonnized by the Catholic Church in 397 a.d.

This is why I stated “In the Catholic liturgy, we are never entertained by music or lifting of hands in worship.”
Because, the bride (Catholic Church) and her husband (Jesus Christ) are no longer celebrating in song and dance (this is done before the Mass and after the Mass in community), but are consumating the wedding feast **when both become One flesh **in the Mass celebration of consumation.

There is much more to expand in the mysteries of God from the Mass. The biblical analogy that Jesus teaches about the “King who gave a wedding for his son” from Matthew 22:1-14. The interesting thing about Jesus teaching about his Kingdom is that you have to wear a wedding garment in order to enter the wedding feast, this white garment that scripture reveals is baptism where “many are invited but few are chosen”.

peace be with you
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A wonderful book that was written on this very subject-by a biblical scholar-after observing the Mass (which led him to enter the Catholic Church, is called “The Lambs Supper”
by Dr.Scott Hahn. I believe it is the perfect read for our protestant brethren and many Catholics who don’t understand the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the sublime gift of the Eucharist.
 
Dr Scott said Catholics in Western culture come to liturgy last in their understanding whereas the Jews in ancient times had their lives revolve around the liturgy…

I studied pastoral theology parttime through my family for 5.5 years…liturgy was my last class, and it ended up being the most creative, dynamic and life-giving…so much to learn all the time…
 
I had never even heard of holding-hands OR raising-hands during mass, until I moved from the Midwest to the Southwest in 2002…

At first, I took a strong dislike to it, as I thought it took ones attention from the mass. But as I have adapted -I now find my self embracing it just as much or even more than most other parishioners…

Now Last Sunday (in the bulletin), Father suggested that Catholics switch from the “Act of Contrition” to the “Perfect Act of Contrition”, which means I will have to relearn something else that I have done for the past 20 years or so as well. So you know what, I’m gonna go ahead and memorize the “Perfect Act of Contrition” by my next confession. 😉
 
Really what is wrong with it?
Should we just sit, stand, or kneel there without any type of emotion, without being enthused about being in the presence of our Lord?
If you want to clap while singing praises to our Lord then do it.
If you want to raise your hands then do it.
If you want to bow your head while praying then do it.
If you want to raise your hands while praying then do it.
If you want to shout AMEN then do it.
 
You should go to the South American Masses…or the African Masses…

It is all about the culture
 
BernadetteM said:
The orans position of the hands is only appropriate for the priest during Mass. The laity are not suppose to raise their hands in this position. There is a long post on this under the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.

All worship must be done by the guidelines of the Church. If anyone is interested they can find the post on the orans position on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum dated around November 26. Fr. Davis explains the rules for laity and the priest.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Upon what do you base this bolded sentence? The GIRM and canon law have not reserved the Orans position of prayer solely to the priest. The article I found in the Liturgy section pretty much supports my position on this as well.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Upon what do you base this bolded sentence? The GIRM and canon law have not reserved the Orans position of prayer solely to the priest. The article I found in the Liturgy section pretty much supports my position on this as well.
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If you go to page 8 under the title of “Raising hands with the priest in Mass, what is latest official teaching”.

Fr. David96 quotes Romes dictates on what the priest is to do and what the laity are to do during Mass. I will take a priest’s understanding of the appropriate positions during the liturgy over a laypersons any day,

Just because something has been done for years does not mean it is correct. I don’t know what posters support your viewpoint, but as I said I will follow what a priest says is appropriate over laypeople.

There are Catholics that are used to doing things their way in Mass and since they like holding hands etc., I guess they expect everyone to also.

In our parish no one holds hands during the Our Father nor do they shake each others hands. There are maybe a very few that raise their hands.

As Father David96 says it is up to the Pastor to inform the people of what is correct and what is not. Please read all the posts on the Liturgy forum under the above title.

I understand that some people didn’t want to accept Father David’s advice and his documentation.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
My pastor said…

Bernadette, the laity does not do the same gestures as the priest.

That is correct. But we are referring to saying the Our Father and alot of us do not like holding hands during the Our Father, myself included. It goes back to the 1970’s…my parish back then had us all sway back and forth when we sang, ‘Peace Like a River’…think that the title, and I thought it was embarrassing…prudish ol’ me.

So my pastor, to steer many of us who privately do not like holding hands but probably went to him quietly about it, finally had the swine flu season…and we were told if we wanted to continue to hold hands after the season we could…but he should us the ‘orans’ position to use in reciting the Our Father as probably the ‘correct’ way if you go back to earliest Christian times. So we are all holding our hands in orans position for that part of the Mass…
 
rev_kevin said:
Really what is wrong with it?
Should we just sit, stand, or kneel there without any type of emotion, without being enthused about being in the presence of our Lord?
If you want to clap while singing praises to our Lord then do it.
If you want to raise your hands then do it.
If you want to bow your head while praying then do it.
If you want to raise your hands while praying then do it.
If you want to shout AMEN then do it.
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When I talked to our Priest he said if you want to do these things then do them. And I do when I am moved to do so.
 
Sure…

The only thing is that you start following your emotions at Mass with impromtu expressions, you will be the only one…and then the pastor will pull you aside after Mass and tell you to follow the rubrics of the Mass because you are bringing attention to yourself and not the Lord.
 
rev_kevin said:
Really what is wrong with it?
Should we just sit, stand, or kneel there without any type of emotion, without being enthused about being in the presence of our Lord?
If you want to clap while singing praises to our Lord then do it.
If you want to raise your hands then do it.
If you want to bow your head while praying then do it.
If you want to raise your hands while praying then do it.
If you want to shout AMEN then do it.
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With respect, dear friend in Christ,
What if someone in your congregation decides that*** he wants*** to get up and shout while you are preaching because he doesn’t want to hear from you?** “JUST DO IT”** is** Nike**'s motto-(perhaps Tiger Woods would have been better influenced by the Catholic Church’s teaching on submitting to a Higher Authority.) Protocol is appropriate when we’re dealing with "the world, the flesh and the devil..", and all three somehow find their way into Sunday church services-wouldn’t you agree?
 
Gabriella_San_S said:
With respect, dear friend in Christ,
What if someone in your congregation decides that*** he wants*** to get up and shout while you are preaching because he doesn’t want to hear from you?** “JUST DO IT”** is** Nike**'s motto-(perhaps Tiger Woods would have been better influenced by the Catholic Church’s teaching on submitting to a Higher Authority.) Protocol is appropriate when we’re dealing with "the world, the flesh and the devil..", and all three somehow find their way into Sunday church services-wouldn’t you agree?
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With all do respect to you my friend.
I"m not talking about “disrupting” the services or not wanting to hear from me. What I’m saying is if you say something and they want to say AMEN to what you said, I see nothing wrong with that. So lets not take things to the extreme like many do here.
I gather you don’t like Nike and I could care less. But I wasn’t thinking about Nike when I said “JUST DO IT.” I also gather you don’t like Tiger Woods eather and being influenced by the Catholic Church’s teachings has nothing to do with what he did. Believe it or not Catholics also sin so to say that he wouldn’t do what he did if he was influenced by the Catholic churches teaching on submitting to a Higher Authority is no guarentee.
Who’s protocol is appropriate? Who’s to say your’s is right and ours is wrong? Who’s to say ours is right and yours is wrong? We all have different ways of worship. What may be right for you may not be right for others.
 
The Lord made us all different…it is challenge to everyone to recognize the rights of others to express themselves the way they want…just so long as they are not disruptive…

We have Catholic Charismatic meetings where people have alot of freedom to be more expressive in their praise.
 
Our Lord is one of order and not chaos…

I came out of the late 60’s and can’t stand the music…brings back memories…
 
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