Your top 3 things Islam should do to change it's image.

[Hospitaller]

Faith101:

Ofcourse it varies, because people vary. Some people wake up at 3 am and pray for 1 hour. Some people do the basics. Some people are able to understand the Quran at a much deeper level while others skim the surface.

What is your point? In Islam, we are given clear direction on how to behave and how not to behave. On what is pleasing to God and what is not.

Please, elaborate on your statement.

My point is that interpretation, without a central teaching authority, is then left up in the air, and it seems to me that the most “faithful” Muslims are those following the historical precedent of carrying out war against the non-believers.

Now, I’m hoping that Joe Monahan doesn’t use that statement as a pretext to make good on his threat to ban me, but looking at historical Islamic teachings, it seems to me that there’s quite a strong precedent set for violence.

For example, according to Abu Dawud, a captured enemy may be chained as a slave, tortured to extract information or killed out of hand, modern examples of which we’ve seen enacted in Iraq.

Faith101:

lol.

Its ok to critizise your countries foreign policy you know.

I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t happen to be *my *country’s foreign policy, although I support it.

Faith101:

Agreeing to everythign your country does is un-ameican and un-patriotic…it makes nodding cowards of us all.

I thought this seemed appropriate:

“It may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you like a thing that is bad for you.”

 

[Edris]

1- fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih004/index.htm

2- beliefnet.com/story/114/story_11460.htm

3- leaderu.com/ftissues/ft0206/opinion/johnson.html

 

[Edris]

this link works

2- beliefnet.com/story/114/story_11460.html

 

[Hospitaller]

Edris:

this link works

2- beliefnet.com/story/114/story_11460.html

Reminds me of the old saying: “There ain’t nothin’ so peaceful as a dead man”.

The article does rightly point out that Moses killed his fair share of people, but the comparison ends there. The Israelites confined themselves to the Holy Land. Mohammed clearly intended his followers to spread Islam all over the earth.

 

[Franze]

Faith101:

Actual examples of people? Those dont make the news.

In my own personal life, i know many pious Muslims, who are practicing Islam to the utmost of their abilities. If you live in the area, i dont mind introducing you to them and you can see for yourself.

Faith 101, comprehend me, when islam is in live, like in Malaysia, with the apostate woman or others, you have said me that they aren´t good muslims and I want to know good public exemples. Because if islam is a religion and their members aren´t good muslims, any of them, any misinterpreted it, Islam is a defeat, because nonw can follow the True Islam.
For example the members of the caliphate that killed all the omeya family, in Damasco, were they good muslims? or the sultan that ordered the siege of Constatinople, was he a good muslim?
Please answer me.

 

[Faith101]

I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t happen to be *my *country’s foreign policy, although I support it.

why, where do you live?

I thought this seemed appropriate:

“It may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you like a thing that is bad for you.”

What exactly are you referring to?

 

[Faith101]

Faith 101, comprehend me, when islam is in live, like in Malaysia, with the apostate woman or others, you have said me that they aren´t good muslims and I want to know good public exemples

Franze. lets start

muslim DOES NOT EQUAL Islam. That being said, you can not point at something and be like “look at Islam”

Is it not true that the BEST of your religion, those that are supposedly most knowledgble about Christianity AND preach it to others, are involved in child molestation trials as we speak (write)? Arent these men the ones that represent your faith? Would it be right if i critized CHRISTIANITY for the actions of some of its “most pious” members?

I know Christianity does not stand for that. At the same time, i can critizise the BELIEFS of the Christians (trinity, original sin, God having a son, god being torutured, etc) without having to point fingers and blame the religion for some of its adherants.

Do you know what i mean?

Because if islam is a religion and their members aren´t good muslims, any of them, any misinterpreted it, Islam is a defeat, because nonw can follow the True Islam.

you only see TV muslims. the ones who make the news arent the best example.

The MAJORITY of Muslims are good, pious people who try to please Allah in what they do.
If what you know about Muslims comes from your TV screen, then i honestly dont expect you to understand Islam.

Go out in real life and meet them, again if you live in the area i will introduce you or find a brother to introduce you if you are male.

For example the members of the caliphate that killed all the omeya family, in Damasco, were they good muslims? or the sultan that ordered the siege of Constatinople, was he a good muslim?
Please answer me

inshAllah, i will get back to you.

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

I know Christianity does not stand for that. At the same time, i can critizise the BELIEFS of the Christians (trinity, original sin, God having a son, god being torutured, etc) without having to point fingers and blame the religion for some of its adherants.

inshAllah, i will get back to you.

Faith, just as you can disagree with our beliefs, so can we disagree with yours (we don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet or that the Quran is the word of God).

Why do you always threaten us with : “Do you believe in Hell?” as you did to me once, or say “Fear God” any time that we disagree with Islam or anything it teaches?

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

Faith, just as you can disagree with our beliefs, so can we disagree with yours (we don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet or that the Quran is the word of God).

We expect that. We are told in the Quran that not everyone will accept and there will be rejectors of the truth.

What i am saying is dont say “i saw on my tv that a muslim did this…so i conclude islam is a bad religion”

Why do you always threaten us with : “Do you believe in Hell?” as you did to me once, or say “Fear God” any time that we disagree with Islam or anything it teaches?

You dont even know how many times PER DAY i tell myself “fear God”…to remind myself that hell DOES exist and it WILL have inhabitants…and to remind myself that i DONT WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM.

I asked you once do you believe in hell, because yu may have said soemthing like “god loves the sinner, hates the sin” which i find totally bogus. its the sinner (and NOT the sin) that gets punished for eternity. Why would God tell someone He loves them when He intends on putting them in hell?

I said “if you donthave proof (which he wont), then fear God”

You can tell me “if you dont have proof that Jesus is not god, then fear God in what you say” Because if i dont have proof, i shouldnt be saying things that i dont know about.

And if i DO have proof than i am essentially already fearing God and following the path i believe to be is correct.

i know i babble, i hope that made sense to you. if not, i will gladly re-explain.

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

We expect that. We are told in the Quran that not everyone will accept and there will be rejectors of the truth.E]

Jesus told us the same thing in the Bible!

You dont even know how many times PER DAY i tell myself “fear God”…to remind myself that hell DOES exist and it WILL have inhabitants…and to remind myself that i DONT WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM.

I asked you once do you believe in hell, because yu may have said soemthing like “god loves the sinner, hates the sin” which i find totally bogus. its the sinner (and NOT the sin) that gets punished for eternity. Why would God tell someone He loves them when He intends on putting them in hell?

I said “if you donthave proof (which he wont), then fear God”

You can tell me “if you dont have proof that Jesus is not god, then fear God in what you say” Because if i dont have proof, i shouldnt be saying things that i dont know about.

And if i DO have proof than i am essentially already fearing God and following the path i believe to be is correct.

i know i babble, i hope that made sense to you. if not, i will gladly re-explain.

Why do you find “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin” bogus? God loves us even when we sin, and is always ready to forgive the repentant sinner. I don’t understand why you take exception to that. I know I’m not very good at explaining.

Anyway, I understand why you said “Fear God” and all that. Thanks for the explanation!

Vickie

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

Jesus told us the same thing in the Bible!

Why do you find “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin” bogus? God loves us even when we sin, and is always ready to forgive the repentant sinner. I don’t understand why you take exception to that. I know I’m not very good at explaining.

If a sinner who is intent on committing that sin and doesnt care if it displeases God…then where will this person go after death?(ofcourse there is the mercy of God, but lets just talk outside of that for the sake of this conversation)

Its just that i have been used to, from reading the Quran, of God’s straightforwardness with us. He tells us exactly the QUALITIES of a person he does not love, for example

Allah does not bless usury, and He causes charitable deeds to prosper, and Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner. (Chapter #2, Verse #276)

And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust. (Chapter #3, Verse #57)

And do not plead on behalf of those who act unfaithfully to their souls; surely Allah does not love him who is treacherous, sinful; (Chapter #4, Verse #107)

**Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech ** unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing. (Chapter #4, Verse #148)

It is clear, concise. At the same time the gates of mercy are wide open during our life time as Allah tells us

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Chapter #39, Verse #53)

…For **Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly ** and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean. (Chapter #2, Verse #222)

…verily Allah loves those **who act aright ** (3:76)

For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).

Allah loves those who are fair (and just

font=Comic Sans MS]Anyway, I understand why you said “Fear God” and all that. Thanks for the explanation!

Vickie/

No problem. I know sometimes we use words differently, and i should explain them before i use them. I’ll try to remember that next time, inshAllah!

 

[Lance]

Please stay on topic. This is not a thread about whether Islam is good or bad. It is about how Islam can change it’s image. GregoryPalamas and jcas had very good replies. That was what I was looking for when I started the thread.

 

[Faith101]

Lance:

Please stay on topic. This is not a thread about whether Islam is good or bad. It is about how Islam can change it’s image. GregoryPalamas and jcas had very good replies. That was what I was looking for when I started the thread.

i apologize.

my reply: Muslims can change their image, by going back to the teachings of the Quran and of the Prophet peace be upon him.

other than that, NOTHING that we do will be truly succesful.

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

The main thing that Islam should do to change it’s image is for the Moslem clergy to condemn suicide bombing and the killing of innocent people.

The clergy should make it very clear, that suicide bombers will not go to heaven when they die. They should clearly state that suicide bombers will go to hell.

 

[Hospitaller]

Faith101:

why, where do you live?

Close.

Faith101:

What exactly are you referring to?

U.S. foreign policy.

 

[jcaz]

Chris Jacobsen:

The main thing that Islam should do to change it’s image is for the Moslem clergy to condemn suicide bombing and the killing of innocent people.

The clergy should make it very clear, that suicide bombers will not go to heaven when they die. They should clearly state that suicide bombers will go to hell.

Chris, if the Muslim religious leaders were not doing what you suggested, you would be correct in your statement. However, Muslims religious leaders, the KNOWN religious leaders have done nothing EXCEPT condemn these crimes. There is only clearity in their statements and no room for confusion.

Here’s a post a made on another thread. There are several links to just one website where the major scholars of Islaam are giving fatwas explaining this impermissiblity of such actions.

jcaz:

Here are several links (all on www.fatwa-online.com) with the statements of several true/accepted scholars regarding suicide attacks for your reference:
Haram Imams Denounce Terrorist Attacks
“Don’t Abuse the Concept of Jihaad” - Grand Mufti
Imams of Makkah and Madeenah condemn “heinous crime”
Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh says suicide bombings are un-Islaamic…
Attacking the enemy by blowing oneself up in a car
Regarding suicide bombings
Concerning suicide bombings
Saudis Stand United Against Terrorism
Regarding WTC 9/11 attacks: Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh says attacks are an “oppression, injustice and tyranny”…
Hijacking planes and kidnapping
Grand Mufti condemns attack on U.S. consulate

Okay, at this point, I have to stop, as I have spent the last eight minutes simply cutting and pasting these links, AND THIS IS JUST FROM ONE SITE!

NOTE: the speaker in many of the links is the GRAND MUFTI of saudi arabia, who is one of the most accepted religious figures within Islaam.

 

[Hospitaller]

jcaz:

Here’s a post a made on another thread. There are several links to just one website where the major scholars of Islaam are giving fatwas explaining this impermissiblity of such actions.

Curious. Judging from the Koran alone, there seems to be a precedent for such actions.

 

[MrS]

Faith101:

Yes, you have been misinformed. Innocent people are just that: those not guilty of a crime, be they jews christians hindus whatever.

If you dont understand a certain verse and would like to discuss it, please bring it up. thanks

So, if I proclaim to you that I accept and worship Jesus as God, the 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity (the One, and the Only God), and that I must therefore reject Allah… am I quilty of a crime, or am I still innocent according to the Quran??

If I proclaim the Bible as the inerrant and inspired Word of God, and therefore reject the Quran as the error filled work of a man named Muhammed… am I guilty of a crime or am I still innocent according to the Quran??

 

[Contarini]

Hospitaller:

Curious. Judging from the Koran alone, there seems to be a precedent for such actions.

And judging from the Bible, there’s a precedent for even more horrific actions.

I think it’s a good thing that Osama bin Laden didn’t grow up reading the Book of Joshua, or we’d probably see even more carnage.

Edwin, a Christian fed up with double standards

 

[MrS]

Contarini:

And judging from the Bible, there’s a precedent for even more horrific actions.

I think it’s a good thing that Osama bin Laden didn’t grow up reading the Book of Joshua, or we’d probably see even more carnage.

Edwin, a Christian fed up with double standards

I could only hope you mean double standards of men.

True Christianity has no double standards for that would imply that God has double standards.