Youth and the Extraordinary Form

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Some of you may have seen this article entitled,“The Rise of Latin Youth” on the Real Clear Religion Website. It counters the myth that the Latin Mass (EF) is populated by old ladies in veils. In reality, the EF is very popular with young people and young families.

realclearreligion.org/articles/2013/01/03/the_rise_of_latin_youth.html

This has also been my own experience in attending the traditional Latin Mass. In fact I have seen several studies that show the group that is most attracted to the traditional Latin Mass is young adult men - the one group that you normally can’t drag into a church.
We have a large number of youth assisting at the FSSP parish (two churches) in my Archdiocese.
As I assist at both an FSSP parish and my local parish which offers only the vernacular O.F. mass, I find it interesting to note that there are many families at my FSSP parish with large numbers of children in each family, while at my O.F. parish, very small families seem to be the norm. I wonder if these trends might be showing up in other parishes as well and if this might play into the trend posited in the original post? 🙂

(On a side note, perhaps the reason that people feel comfortable linking their concerns about strong arguments in favor of or in opposition to certain mass forms to posts made by Floresco is tied to the high degree of charity encountered in those posts. I have been following the thread since the initial post and very much appreciate such charity.👍)

May God bless us and our youth and may we all be ever more strongly drawn to His Holy Mass. Amen.
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

This is a Roman Catholic Forum…


If you cannot say what the Holy Father wants you to say about the Holy Mass in both forms, then don’t say it. We’re not here to bash the mass, nor are we here to contradict the Pontiff.

This is an interesting subject if you limit yourself to speaking about your experiences with youth and the Extraordinary Form. You need not compare the Ordinary Form to anything other than what the Holy Father compares it to.

If this is a problem, contact me via PM or find another thread where you can stay out of trouble.

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
We have a large number of youth assisting at the FSSP parish (two churches) in my Archdiocese.
As I assist at both an FSSP parish and my local parish which offers only the vernacular O.F. mass, I find it interesting to note that there are many families at my FSSP parish with large numbers of children in each family, while at my O.F. parish, very small families seem to be the norm. I wonder if these trends might be showing up in other parishes as well and if this might play into the trend posited in the original post? 🙂

(On a side note, perhaps the reason that people feel comfortable linking their concerns about strong arguments in favor of or in opposition to certain mass forms to posts made by Floresco is tied to the high degree of charity encountered in those posts. I have been following the thread since the initial post and very much appreciate such charity.👍)

May God bless us and our youth and may we all be ever more strongly drawn to His Holy Mass. Amen.
We have huge families at the Tridentine Latin Mass in Seattle - some taking most of a row of the pews. If you look at the parking lot, it is full of “Catholic Assault Vehicles” (Mega-vans so they can pack all the kids in). Anyone with less than 4 children feels out of place at this parish. We have a whole platoon of altar servers and another platoon of torchbearer (jr. altar servers).

Among the adult singles the most interesting thing is that there seems to be a preponderance of single men at the Tridentine Latin Mass. As a single women, I might have a difficult time staying unmarried here. 😉
 
We have huge families at the Tridentine Latin Mass in Seattle - some taking most of a row of the pews. If you look at the parking lot, it is full of “Catholic Assault Vehicles” (Mega-vans so they can pack all the kids in). Anyone with less than 4 children feels out of place at this parish. We have a whole platoon of altar servers and another platoon of torchbearer (jr. altar servers).

Among the adult singles the most interesting thing is that there seems to be a preponderance of single men at the Tridentine Latin Mass. As a single women, I might have a difficult time staying unmarried here. 😉
You can’t possibly mean that the way it sounded.

Or do you really mean that families with fewer than 4 children are not made to feel welcome?
 
There are people who have serious concerns about the OF even though they acknowledge it as a valid Catholic Mass. It is common for the men who are attracted to the FSSP to be like this. For example, if a priest thinks that the EF is a far superior expression of Catholic theology, he might feel like saying the OF is giving God second best. I can imagine myself being very distressed if I were in such a situation.
A good priest should not be thinking and making comparisons in that manner.
 
Let’s get something understood here.

First of all, many times guitars are used because there is no pianist or organist available.

**Second, let’s be very clear–the guitar folk music is not being done to attract teenagers to church. It’s being done to attract boomers like me. **

Baby boomers are the largest population group in the United States. We grew up with guitar music, folk and rock music, and most of us like it very much. I agree that most teens do NOT like boomer music, but boomers do.

And many boomers grew up rebelling against “square” music, and even though we are Christians, there is still that little spark of dislike for “traditions” and “old-fashioned stuff”.

It’s embarrassing for us to admit it, but many of us still consider ourselves “the young generation.” Frankly, I think for a lot of boomers, childhood never happened because we were born into a world dominated by the Viet Nam war, LSD and other drugs, hippies, free love, rebellion against authority (“Don’t trust anyone over 30”), rejection of religion, rejection of traditional values and morals (“Do your own thing”), and constantly-changing styles of pop/rock music that attempted to express all of this angst.

We saw fellow students shot at Kent State. We lived through four assassinations of beloved leaders, and an attempted assassination of a controversial leader (Gov. George Wallace).

Our world teetered and tottered, and many of us didn’t live through our youth.

But many of us did, and we’re still trying to find our way back to something “real.”

True, the Mass music isn’t about our personal preferences. But it’s also true that Holy Mother Church does allow Mass music of different styles and instruments other than the pipe organ. So why not use music in the Mass that will appeal to various groups of people, including boomers?

And true, rebellion is the sin that felled Lucifer the angel. But in order to get people to a place where they will recognize and repent of their sin, we first have to get them to Mass, and if the boomer music helps to do that, then why not use it?

Our boomer folk/rock Mass on Sunday mornings is probably the most crowded Mass at our parish, and it’s full of boomers. The music is provided by the “folk choir,” and accompanied by guitars and various hand-held percussion instruments. I personally do not like this kind of music, but obviously many others do.

I hope this post kind of explains boomer thinking and attitudes to those of you who are young.

**We Boomers need Jesus, too! And I see nothing wrong and EVERYTHING good about providing Mass music that will draw the very large population of boomers, many of whom have good jobs (the last generation to be able to get good jobs) and therefore have money to give, back to God. **

Also, many boomers have children and grandchildren, and sadly, many of the boomer children/grandchildren have never attended any church at all. At the school my children grew up in, very few children and teens attended any church. For many, their first church experience happened when they were in high school and one of their classmates was killed in a car accident, and the students attended his funeral at a church.

So it’s possible that bringing the boomers back to church will also result in their children coming to God. So those guitars are doing double duty!

I do agree that it’s quite unfortunate if this kind of “boomer” music is the only music used at parishes. I think it is good when parishes can provide different styles of music at their various Masses, so that everyone will find something that appeals to their heart and soul.
Well said.👍
 
We have huge families at the Tridentine Latin Mass in Seattle - some taking most of a row of the pews. If you look at the parking lot, it is full of “Catholic Assault Vehicles” (Mega-vans so they can pack all the kids in). Anyone with less than 4 children feels out of place at this parish. We have a whole platoon of altar servers and another platoon of torchbearer (jr. altar servers).

Among the adult singles the most interesting thing is that there seems to be a preponderance of single men at the Tridentine Latin Mass. As a single women, I might have a difficult time staying unmarried here. 😉
I assume your second paragraph was written jokingly.

Why would anyone with anyone with with less than 4 children feel out of place?
 
You can’t possibly mean that the way it sounded.

Or do you really mean that families with fewer than 4 children are not made to feel welcome?
Of course not. I just meant that a small family would look unusual, because all the families are so large. I was using a somewhat theatrical expression. I forgot how humorless a place this was.

But thanks for pointing out a small point that the anti-Latin Mass crowd could spin into a negative.
 
I keep getting the feeling that I am being held responsible for every trad who has ever behaved like a jerk. People respond to my posts to make points they have argued about with other trads that have little or nothing to do with what I said. It is as if, once I have called myself a trad, I have ceased to be an individual.
That reminds me of something was in the Summorum Pontificum of Pope Benedict XVI:
…there have been exaggerations and at times social aspects unduly linked to the attitude of the faithful attached to the ancient Latin liturgical tradition.
Even His Holiness recognizes that those who prefer the Latin Mass have all kinds of unjust thing attributed to them, people prejudging our views etc.
 
Of course not. I just meant that a small family would look unusual, because all the families are so large. I was using a somewhat theatrical expression. I forgot how humorless a place this was.

But thanks for pointing out a small point that the anti-Latin Mass crowd could spin into a negative.
10thCrusader, I believe we are in the same parish, and I will back you up on the less than 4 kids comment. I have less than four, but they are all grown, but when mine were little, I was made to feel out of place in other parishes, because I had more than two!

I love seeing all the kids there. It reminds me of my home parish when I was a kid, in the dark ages, with whole pews being taken up by one family!
 
10thCrusader, I believe we are in the same parish, and I will back you up on the less than 4 kids comment. I have less than four, but they are all grown, but when mine were little, I was made to feel out of place in other parishes, because I had more than two!

I love seeing all the kids there. It reminds me of my home parish when I was a kid, in the dark ages, with whole pews being taken up by one family!
Yes Peggy, I’m sure we are, unless you’re going to the Tacoma Latin Mass. The Latin Mass in Seattle (North American Martyrs) definitely has the big families, but nobody minds all the babies crying. It just means the parish is full of life, so don’t think the priests mind either.
 
Yes Peggy, I’m sure we are, unless you’re going to the Tacoma Latin Mass. The Latin Mass in Seattle (North American Martyrs) definitely has the big families, but nobody minds all the babies crying. It just means the parish is full of life, so don’t think the priests mind either.
I think Fr. S and Fr. H are tickled pink!

I miss my grandkids, as they live far far away, and I feel like I have a huge family of grandkids whenever I’m at Mass! In fact, I love sitting in the back with all the babies!

Just look at all the future Catholics. Makes me sure that our parish will be around for years to come. And, you’ll come to my funeral, when that time comes, because as Yogi Berra said, if you don’t go to your friends’ funerals, they won’t come to yours!😉
 
I think Fr. S and Fr. H are tickled pink!

I miss my grandkids, as they live far far away, and I feel like I have a huge family of grandkids whenever I’m at Mass! In fact, I love sitting in the back with all the babies!

Just look at all the future Catholics. Makes me sure that our parish will be around for years to come. And, you’ll come to my funeral, when that time comes, because as Yogi Berra said, if you don’t go to your friends’ funerals, they won’t come to yours!😉
I think it will be interesting to see how may of the little ones will stick with the Latin Mass when they get older. Hopefully the catechesis will be excellent and they truly will be “future Catholics.”

Yes, teenagers/young people who are old enough to make up their own minds and arrange their own transportation are making the choice, in some dioceses and cities, to attend the EF rather than the OF of the Mass.

But what will happen when children raised in the EF grow up to be young people/teenagers?

Sadly, attrition by youth is an issue in all Christian churches, Catholic and otherwise, and we must open our eyes and be ever-mindful of this *without becoming defensive when people like me bring up the uncomfortable facts. *

One of the best books I’ve ever read is called Exit Interviews. It’s all about how many Christians leave the church through “the back door.” We really need to guard our “back doors” and not be naive about attrition, especially attrition by young people.

Like I said, proper catechesis is vital. But from what I have been told over and over on this forum, in the past, Catholic catechesis was amazing (Baltimore catechism, nuns and priests doing the teaching, etc.–remember, I wasn’t raised Catholic, so I am basing this on what Catholics, especially Catholics on CAF, have told me).

Yet, many of the Catholics who were raised with the Latin Mass and this excellent catechesis are among the most vociferous opponents of the EF of the Mass. I personally have met many elderly people who tell me that they would quit being Catholic if they had to return to the Latin Mass–kind of takes my breath away when I hear this kind of talk from those who were raised in an age that some consider “the best years of the Catholic Church.”

Personally, I have found over the years that when even “good” teenagers are “forced” or “obligated” to do anything, they will rebel, but when they are given freedom, they will often make the right choice if they have been trained well by good parents. There’s something about being “required” to do something that makes us humans resist doing it–think about dieting! The instant we are told that we can’t eat something anymore, we start craving it! The instant we are told that we can have as much as we want of it, we often stop craving it.

I think this is why “church” often becomes a point of rebellion in many families, and Catholic Mass in particular–“church” is “required,” and therefore teenagers feel compelled, by our perverse human nature, to rebel against church attendance. This is so heartbreaking for parents and grandparents who hoped to see a family dynasty in their church.

Over the years here on CAF, when I hear about youth and the EF (this topic has come up many times), I wonder how many of those young people stick with it. Young people are notorious for seeking “novelty.” For that matter, adults are constantly seeking "novelty, too. Perhaps it’s my Protestant background that makes me a skeptic, but I can’t help but think that once the luster and the newness of the EF wears off, how many people depart for yet another “church novelty.”

Traditional-leaning Catholics and others, please forgive me for being a skeptic, but like I said, I saw a great deal of “bandwagon Christianity” while I was Evangelical Protestant and it has definitely caused me to be come suspicious of anything “new” (or in the case of the EF, something “old!”).

Christians never seem to be able to just “settle”. There’s always a “new church” or a “new pastor” or a “new method of studying the Bible” or a “new spirituality”–always something new. I’m not criticizing the desire of Christians to grow in their faith–that’s good. But I’m weary of Christians who wander about and never seem to be able to dig in and accept what they have and strive/work/pray to make it better.

I hope this post is* helpful* and not hurtful.
 
Traditional-leaning Catholics and others, please forgive me for being a skeptic, but like I said, I saw a great deal of “bandwagon Christianity” while I was Evangelical Protestant and it has definitely caused me to be come suspicious of anything “new” (or in the case of the EF, something “old!”).

Christians never seem to be able to just “settle”. There’s always a “new church” or a “new pastor” or a “new method of studying the Bible” or a “new spirituality”–always something new. I’m not criticizing the desire of Christians to grow in their faith–that’s good. But I’m weary of Christians who wander about and never seem to be able to dig in and accept what they have and strive/work/pray to make it better.

I hope this post is* helpful* and not hurtful.
I all fairness, your experience is with modern fads, right?

I think a rite that has existed in more or less the same form for 1,500 years is not a fad.

I am confident that unless the Church suppresses it again, the Latin Mass will outlive everything else.
 
Of course not. I just meant that a small family would look unusual, because all the families are so large. I was using a somewhat theatrical expression. I forgot how humorless a place this was.

But thanks for pointing out a small point that the anti-Latin Mass crowd could spin into a negative.
Very interesting.

Instead of defending your statement, you: claim it was a joke (but not really, because a small family really would look out of place.) then attack me as anti-Latin Mass.

👍👍 Way to defend your point. 👍👍👍

Whenever the thought hits me to try the EF, I try to squash it pretty quick. Having only one child and being married to someone that isn’t Catholic, I know, from CAF that I wouldn’t be very welcome at an EF. Thankfully, my son and I can attend our local OF Mass, without anyone giving us the evil eye.

(If you ever wonder why there aren’t more small families at your local EF, you might look at how you treat us. )
 
Whenever the thought hits me to try the EF, I try to squash it pretty quick. Having only one child and being married to someone that isn’t Catholic, I know, from CAF that I wouldn’t be very welcome at an EF.
Okay, but how would they know this if you didn’t tell them?
 
Whenever the thought hits me to try the EF, I try to squash it pretty quick. Having only one child and being married to someone that isn’t Catholic, I know, from CAF that I wouldn’t be very welcome at an EF. Thankfully, my son and I can attend our local OF Mass, without anyone giving us the evil eye.

(If you ever wonder why there aren’t more small families at your local EF, you might look at how you treat us. )
I believe my reply to the question was “Of course not.”

As far as squashing your interest in attending the EF - What was my mother used to say?: “Don’t say no until you’ve tried it.”

Unless your interest in the EF Mass was just a joke too.
 
Okay, but how would they know this if you didn’t tell them?
Well, I wouldn’t use a “Catholic Assault Vehicle” to arrive. I would arrive with one child and no husband. And we wouldn’t take up an entire pew.
I believe my reply to the question was “Of course not.”
With the qualifier of “I just meant that a small family would look unusual.”
As far as squashing your interest in attending the EF - What was my mother used to say?: “Don’t say no until you’ve tried it.”
Unless your interest in the EF Mass was just a joke too.
Now? It is a joke. Before? Not so much. I used to think it would be interesting to attend the Mass of my mother, my grandmother. That thought has been squashed many times here.
 
This thread is so sad. 😦

We started out with what should have been good news - a report about youth (young adults) attending Mass in good numbers.

It has now descended into a squabble about whose parish has the most people - especially children. And is causing division within the church family. :mad:

Everyone posting here is a faithful Catholic who attends Mass regularly. Why are we arguing about what each other’s parish demographics look like??

Can we not rejoice that the Church is growing in many areas and through the many different expressions of the Catholic faith. :dancing::signofcross:
 
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