Youth that feel we don't need marriage certificates in Marriage?

[PHILTHEO]

“I’m not impressed. I’m also starting to be suspicious that a lot of these new accounts are the same person, repeats of old banned members, or otherwise trolls. We’ve had a huge influx of anti marriage “catholics” the last few months and the posts and arguments are all the same.”

And I’m not impressed by people who attack the knowledge of other board members without proving their arguments false. Also, if you’d note my first post, I came to this board for very different reasons. Also, I am very, very, very, very pro marriage. But based on my experience civil marriage has gone down the tubes. It saddens me. Rest assured I will find a way to protect my future wife with everything I have.

“Divorce laws are not gendered. Child support is not oppressive, and women do not walk away from divorce wealthy while a man has nothing. Women by and large lose more financially than men in divorce, and the post divorce poverty rates of men and women are very different. If you want specifics, do some unbiased research. Or just look back on these boards. The last time this tired issue came up, a regular poster, MaryMary1975 broke a lot down and provided a wealth of information. (She’s an attorney). But I’m not going to do your learning for you. I spend my days surrounded by law as it is.”

The study on women losing money is divorce was debunked ages ago and repeatedly. I wont even bother posting the links. To use your line, I wont bother educating you either since you seem to just ignore what you disagree with. This is a Catholic Forum, and even though you are not a Catholic you should not have made a personal attack out of this. I started by stating facts only (none of which you could comment on without the use of strawmen). There is no need for a debate to be acrimonious.

 

[SerbCath]

“I’m not impressed. I’m also starting to be suspicious that a lot of these new accounts are the same person, repeats of old banned members, or otherwise trolls. We’ve had a huge influx of anti marriage “catholics” the last few months and the posts and arguments are all the same.”

And I’m not impressed by people who attack the knowledge of other board members without proving their arguments false. Also, if you’d note my first post, I came to this board for very different reasons. Also, I am very, very, very, very pro marriage. But based on my experience civil marriage has gone down the tubes. It saddens me. Rest assured I will find a way to protect my future wife with everything I have.

“Divorce laws are not gendered. Child support is not oppressive, and women do not walk away from divorce wealthy while a man has nothing. Women by and large lose more financially than men in divorce, and the post divorce poverty rates of men and women are very different. If you want specifics, do some unbiased research. Or just look back on these boards. The last time this tired issue came up, a regular poster, MaryMary1975 broke a lot down and provided a wealth of information. (She’s an attorney). But I’m not going to do your learning for you. I spend my days surrounded by law as it is.”

The study on women losing money is divorce was debunked ages ago and repeatedly. I wont even bother posting the links. To use your line, I wont bother educating you either since you seem to just ignore what you disagree with. This is a Catholic Forum, and even though you are not a Catholic you should not have made a personal attack out of this. I started by stating facts only (none of which you could comment on without the use of strawmen). There is no need for a debate to be acrimonious.

It is par for the course, even on a Catholic website to have the truly pro marriage position mischaracterized, sir.

My wife and I run a website devoted entirely to salvaging sacramental marriage by trying to restore the lost art and tradition of courtship.

What we don’t support is a system where one gender can unilaterally blow up the marriage, ripping fathers from their homes, leaving their children with a huge weight of fatherlessness tied around their neck when they are not happy anymore–that the statistics overwhelmingly show to be true.

Big difference.

It truly is telling isn’t it? To simply offer an alternative hypothesis as to why young people are running from marriage in droves gets you accused of not being a Christian, being selfish, all the rest of it.

 

[PHILTHEO]

You Rock SerbCath.

I think I’ll be fine since I am well informed on all of the messy legal issues. I also know God will bring me a wonderful Catholic girl someday who I can trust

The people I feel bad for are those who are just working Joes who don’t have the leisure of researching due to the stresses of life. If they make a mistake or get conned by a woman using marriage for money all of the legal cards are against them.

(I would post a heartbreaking story that I recently came into contact on, but it is so unique it would spoil the man’s identity)

At least the issue is hitting the media these days. Most states have abolished the absurdity of permanent alimony as well. There is hope, but the best thing you can do is to educate. I will look up your website if I can find it lol.

 

[SerbCath]

You Rock SerbCath.

I think I’ll be fine since I am well informed on all of the messy legal issues. I also know God will bring me a wonderful Catholic girl someday who I can trust

The people I feel bad for are those who are just working Joes who don’t have the leisure of researching due to the stresses of life. If they make a mistake or get conned by a woman using marriage for money all of the legal cards are against them.

(I would post a heartbreaking story that I recently came into contact on, but it is so unique it would spoil the man’s identity)

At least the issue is hitting the media these days. Most states have abolished the absurdity of permanent alimony as well. There is hope, but the best thing you can do is to educate. I will look up your website if I can find it lol.

Keep praying, keep going to church and focus on making yourself husband material. The rest will work itself out if it is Gods will.

www.courtshippledge.com

 

[EasterJoy]

Non sequitur

Attacking an argument not posited (too good to wash someone’s feet). Therefore, all scripture that follows is not relevant.

Oh…do explain what the “house husband” crack you made about her husband was supposed to mean, since you are so against personal attacks.

You owe her an apology.

Ad hominem and too general. Filled with fluff but no engagement with the actual concerns about civil marriage.

Also an interesting use of personal attack while simultaneously calling my Christian faith into question.

You flippantly throw around the idea that marriage should be abandoned because it is too risky, and then you are defensive when *that flippant remark *is renounced as being outside the faith? Are you for real?

What do you mean talking out of both sides of my mouth? I simply posted his words and said it was his words because i found it an interesting view…

or is it because I brought up Jewish history and the ten commandments of honoring parents, the original root of Christianity (Judaism)??

Both sides of your mouth is that you say your beliefs are traditional and yet you say that it is wrong to allow people to marry without getting their parents’ opinions on the matter. You think it is an “interesting” view? It is not interesting; it is incorrect.

The Church has never prohibited Catholics who are free to marry from doing so because the parents of the bride or the groom object, let alone because one of the bridal couple elected to make the decision without consulting parents. Parents may help their children find suitable spouses, but that does not mean that they get to decide who their children marry. Certain cultures have enforced the sort of tribalism where women are not allowed to choose their own husbands, but this is not from the New Testament. According to Gaudium et Spes, “For in truth it must still be regretted that fundamental personal rights are still not being universally honored. Such is the case of a woman who is denied the right to choose a husband freely…”

 

[SerbCath]

that flippant remark

is renounced as being outside the faith? Are you for real?

Well, since you have misrepresented my position several times, I will assume it is intentional. But for anyone reading–I have made the distinction between “civil marriage” and “sacramental marriage” over and over. My remark about everyone staying home was a hyperbolic device, taking the current state of things to it’s logical conclusion to show how absurd it is. You know it, and you keep obfuscating it.

No matter how many times you try to combine the two kinds of marriage and then attribute that position to me, it isn’t true.

 

[Demetra2]

Yes, Living together is the new normal, sadly. It offers very little in terms of true love and devotion and reaps very little good fruit. But people of all ages are so messed up and selfish that they can’t allow themselves to truly belong to someone else through the sacrament of marriage or even civil marriage.
Something in our culture is very wrong.

 

[SerbCath]

I’ll just leave with this, and get on with life.

You see, my wife and I see sacramental marriage as a patient dying on the table. We are desperately trying to breathe life into it, while other folks keep injecting deadly poison (the states rules) into it’s veins. They think “this poison is almost working. Just a little more will do the trick!”

After my first comment on this thread last night, my website lit up with activity. About 200 new hits in an hour. I got several emails through the contact page from people (some of them women! GASP!) wanting to know more. Heck, at least two people here openly expressed interest and, with an open mind came over.

Who knows how many silent lurkers there are?

That’s how you convince people of your position–by having superior arguments. Not by insulting them and insinuating that they aren’t Christians.

So, I think some good came from this. Even if just one person takes a look at this issue and has a second thought or a pause.

God bless!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I’ll just leave with this, and get on with life.

You see, my wife and I see sacramental marriage as a patient dying on the table. We are desperately trying to breathe life into it, while other folks keep injecting deadly poison (the states rules) into it’s veins. They think “this poison is almost working. Just a little more will do the trick!”

After my first comment on this thread last night, my website lit up with activity. About 200 new hits in an hour. I got several emails through the contact page from people (some of them women! GASP!) wanting to know more. Heck, at least two people here openly expressed interest and, with an open mind came over.

Who knows how many silent lurkers there are?

That’s how you convince people of your position–by having superior arguments. Not by insulting them and insinuating that they aren’t Christians.

So, I think some good came from this. Even if just one person takes a look at this issue and has a second thought or a pause.

God bless!

I think we have our answer.

If I had to guess, I would say that all of the trial accounts on this thread were created specifically to cause a “controversy”, as a way to promote some guys courtship site and get more hits.

 

[Prov31HelpMeet]

I think we have our answer.

If I had to guess, I would say that all of the trial accounts on this thread were created specifically to cause a “controversy”, as a way to promote some guys courtship site and get more hits.

What a brilliant observation! /sarcasm off.

Look at his post history. He has been posting and commenting since March on topics such as: hermeneutic principles, the death penalty, having a bi-ritual home, Orthodox/Catholic unity. You really figured it out. It was all a ruse for 4 months just waiting to drop the website plug!

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Both sides of your mouth is that you say your beliefs are traditional and yet you say that it is wrong to allow people to marry without getting their parents’ opinions on the matter. You think it is an “interesting” view? It is not interesting; it is incorrect.

The Church has never prohibited Catholics who are free to marry from doing so because the parents of the bride or the groom object, let alone because one of the bridal couple elected to make the decision without consulting parents. Parents may help their children find suitable spouses, but that does not mean that they get to decide who their children marry. Certain cultures have enforced the sort of tribalism where women are not allowed to choose their own husbands, but this is not from the New Testament. According to Gaudium et Spes, “For in truth it must still be regretted that fundamental personal rights are still not being universally honored. Such is the case of a woman who is denied the right to choose a husband freely…”

Never claimed to believe traditional. For you it may not be interesting but for me it is. I like to consider all and have an open mind so correction or confirmation can be made on personal beliefs (which is why I brought it up). Getting an opinion from parents to fulfill honoring them is wise. Not necessarily wrong unless you look at it through the ten commandments and Jewish history, As I stated before (never said I believed it was wrong. Everything is circumstantial). I pointed out honoring parents just like that one guys words because it is what alot of people think and believe out there. Just wanted to hear what you had to say. Perhaps I was not clear enough on the matter it was not my own words. Thanks for sharing your view on the matter. I do appreciate it honestly. God Bless

 

[PHILTHEO]

@Blue Eyed Lady:
I know you are a hardcore atheist, but you are very cynical even for an atheist.

I am me and no one else on this forum. Just based on my professional history I know a lot more than most people on this very messy topic so I feel that education in this sphere is good for people.

And since the laws are changing (slowly and slightly) obviously there was bias or there would be nothing to change -_- Logic needs to apply to all debates. Attacks solve nothing.

 

[WilT]

I do feel that if married, one needs to know, by paper, that the other person intends to stick around till death do us part. God wants us happy and content, not always wondering if so and so will leave us if and when we have a serious argument. So I think the contract reminds us of our commitment to one another in marriage.