Yucky situation

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An easy assumption to make.😉 He does not even have a green card! Nobody bothered to check when he applied to the job. My DH is not an American citizen either but went through the neccesary process. Believe me he looked into what he can do to help him become legal since he knows some lawyers with expierience in this, considered some loopholes like having him as a consultant instead of a full time employee ect.
 
petitfleur said:
He works in HR and volunteers his time as a board member for a local sports club.
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if he is a board member or an official of the association in any way he has an obligation to report what he knows to the board so they can take the appropriate action based on their bylaws and relevant civil law. This is a child protection issue as well. It is also unclear whether this is a paid employee or a volunteer. If he is a paid employee there is no question federal laws are being violated if there is no I-9 and other documentation. For a volunteer, a criminal background check is the bare minimum. What is the governing law in your area?
 
As much as I hate to look at this as a “CYA” situation, it sort of is for your husband. Leave the coaching credentials out of it – clearly the parents shelling out $1500 a year for coaching fees are satisfied with the coach’s methods, success, etc. The papers saying he has this expertise or that may impress parents but it’s meaningless in and of itself.

What does matter, really, is that your husband KNOWS this man is breaking the law. If he looks the other way (not saying he should or shouldn’t) and someone else finds out he knew the information and didn’t report it, what happens to your husband? The club may be fined thousands of dollars…is there any chance they would in turn sue your husband for not divulging the information he knew? What would happen to your husband’s reputation in the community, etc. Personally, I think your husband has a right to protect himself from any fall out this could cause.

As far as protecting the illegal immigrant and his family…you and your husband have no moral obligation to help this man break the law simply because he has children. Will it cause hardship for his family if the truth is known? Likely. That, however, is not your problem. I find it hard to believe this man (and presumably his wife) don’t know the consequences of being in the country illegally. They apparently decided coming here and staying illegally was worth whatever risks they were taking. I’m not saying your husband should or shouldn’t report this man; that’s entirely up to him. I am saying, however, that neither of you should carry any guilt for reporting him if it’s in YOUR family’s best interests to do so.
 
He is here illegally and has lied not only about his status and ability to work, but also his credentials. He should be called out for it. If I were you, I would report him. If he lies about his status and his credentials, you have NO CLUE what else he might be lying about. If I had children I would only want honest and upfront people coaching my children and being around them several hours a week. There are lots of people looking for work as coaches that would not lie to the parents, the children, and the organization. That guy is taking a job away from an honest person that probably wants a coaching job. I don’t care where he is from, if he lies about his status to get the job and then on top of all that lies about his credentials he needs to go.
 
Let’s also take a step back and look at the situation a different way. If a coach is here legally, and he lies about his credentials, he would get fired. Period. No one wants to keep a con on their payrolls. Now, if the person not only lies about his credentials but also his status he is especially fraudulent.

Allowing others to commit fraud is, in a sense, also committing fraud yourself because you are also not telling other parents that they are paying for something they aren’t getting. If you worked for a company that sold an actual, physical product and you knew that the company was giving customers something less or different than what they paid for you would have a moral obligation to call them out. It’s just the same for coaching. You can report these things anonymously and that would probably be the safest way to go about it.
 
Irish_Girl_68 said:
As much as I hate to look at this as a “CYA” situation, it sort of is for your husband. Leave the coaching credentials out of it – clearly the parents shelling out $1500 a year for coaching fees are satisfied with the coach’s methods, success, etc. The papers saying he has this expertise or that may impress parents but it’s meaningless in and of itself.

What does matter, really, is that your husband KNOWS this man is breaking the law. If he looks the other way (not saying he should or shouldn’t) and someone else finds out he knew the information and didn’t report it, what happens to your husband? The club may be fined thousands of dollars…is there any chance they would in turn sue your husband for not divulging the information he knew? What would happen to your husband’s reputation in the community, etc. Personally, I think your husband has a right to protect himself from any fall out this could cause.

As far as protecting the illegal immigrant and his family…you and your husband have no moral obligation to help this man break the law simply because he has children. Will it cause hardship for his family if the truth is known? Likely. That, however, is not your problem. I find it hard to believe this man (and presumably his wife) don’t know the consequences of being in the country illegally. They apparently decided coming here and staying illegally was worth whatever risks they were taking. I’m not saying your husband should or shouldn’t report this man; that’s entirely up to him. I am saying, however, that neither of you should carry any guilt for reporting him if it’s in YOUR family’s best interests to do so.
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The problem is that my husband has a concience and if the club was fined thousands of dollars and he could of done something about it, it would bother him. This is a small town not for profit sports organization, it might mean less money available for scholarships for other kids who want to play. His name is also attached to this organazation becuase he is a board member.
We know what we have to do- which is let the board know of the situation and let them decide what to do. It just seems like my husband always has to be the bad guy. Nobody is thinking of calling the police or immigration to have him deported!!!
 
petitfleur said:
Nobody is thinking of calling the police or immigration to have him deported!!!
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Why not? Is he not here illegally? Is he not also using a Social Security number that isn’t his? If he doesn’t have a green card but is being paid, what SS number is he using? Is he guilty of identity fraud? Is he paying taxes or is he also committing tax fraud?:bigyikes:

If what you say is true, this isn’t just a man that needs a job and has a family. This is a criminal. And he needs to be reported.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Oh I apologize greatly for the assumption!!! When you say “illegal” I assume it is from Mexico since other nations do not send millions of their citizens north to cross our southern border illegally.

Then I guess you don’t have to worry about identity theft…He must have had a green card at some point?:confused:

What a pity that he isn’t honest. If he’s a good coach, he could have obtained some certificate here. He shouldn’t have lied about having the credentials.
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Not neccessarily. Often people from Europe can come to the US as a tourist, and overstay their tourist visa.

Also, the Social Security admin issues numbers to foreigners often. You need a SS number to open a bank account. I do not recall the exact term of this card…but it prohibits working. But, it looke exactly the same as a regular SS card…so the average person would not know.

A green card takes a while to get, it depends what country one is coming from, and who is sponsering…usually sponsering a spouse is the quickest way.
 
I think what is really bothering me about this situation is that it is like a microcosm of what has been happening in my school district. We have had deficite spending for 10 plus years and none of us have really paid attention to the situation and let the board of education do what they want to do blindly trusting them.We are now millions of dollars in debt. In the past year the state demanded we balance our budget two schools have been closed many teachers fired , our taxes raised, art gym music and the gifted program have been cut and our class sizes have balloned form a 20 kid average to abou 30-35 kids in a classroom. Just when the dust settled and we start moving on we find there is a $400,000. discrepecy in the budget! and 16 more teachers have been cut. We cant keep turning a blind eye to things and hope they settle themselves. I wonder how many of the board members knew this wasnt right but just went along with the herd???
 
petitfleur said:
The problem is that my husband has a concience and if the club was fined thousands of dollars and he could of done something about it, it would bother him. This is a small town not for profit sports organization, it might mean less money available for scholarships for other kids who want to play. His name is also attached to this organazation becuase he is a board member.
We know what we have to do- which is let the board know of the situation and let them decide what to do. It just seems like my husband always has to be the bad guy. Nobody is thinking of calling the police or immigration to have him deported!!!
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This is not a WE problem. This is your HUSBANDS problem. Not yours.

I find it highly doubtful that your husband is the ONLY one who knows. Somehow magically in a small town on a tight knit board he’s the only one? It REALLY dosn’t add up.

He has two options if he dosn’t want to “be the bad guy”. He can excuse himself from the board. This protects his name, and also any information he’s gotten as to this man’s status. Simply put, take away the position and he no longer is in a place to act, EVEN with the information. They can’t come after him after the fact.

Second, he can stay on the board and write an anonmous tip to the head of the board. This way the entire board can address it. Your husband is not the “bad guy” and if the head of the board chooses to ignore it, then I’d suggest your husband remove himself from the board.

This is not as “yucky” as you are making it. This is not your husband’s employee, he never should of spoken to you about this…and you MAY be jumping to conclusions. This guy could be a foriegn national or even someone in witness protection. He could be on an extended visa, he could have a million other reasons why he dosn’t appear legal…but is. He could also be illegal without his knowlage…as in overstaying a visa and thinking marriage lets him stay automatically. As his background clearned becuase people WANTED it to and he hasn’t been questioned becuase people don’t ask. And in that case, your husband may soil the name of a good man.
 
petitfleur said:
It just seems like my husband always has to be the bad guy.
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If your husband is protecting the club that he is a board member of, then he is hardly the bad guy. Again, IMO, it’s not his job to protect someone who is breaking the law.

If your husband doesn’t want to report the man, then (as someone else mentioned) it would seem only fair that he resign his position. He isn’t required to say why.
 
Petitfluer,

Actually. This is your husband’s issue.

The bad guy here isn’t your husband. The bad guy is the individual who chose to break the law, lie about his credentials-- the guy who created this situation.

Now, your husband as a board member has legal and moral obligations to the sports organization. Not the bad guy who created this mess.

There may be more serious legal consequences for your husband than you’ve mentioned. Depending on your state, he could be held personally liable for the fines against the organization because of his awareness of the immigration status without revealing it. He could be considered an accomplice (there’s a legal term for someone who becomes aware of criminal activity without reporting it- basically assisting and abetting). This is particularly true in your husbands case because the organizaiton can be perceived as benefiting from the false representation- ie. fake credentials for the coach.

You mentioned these credentials are actually listed on the website. Your husband is now complicit in falsely advertising the qualifications of one of it’s members to the benefit of the organization.

Your husband has no legal or moral obligation to cover up for this man. The coach took the risks, broke the laws, and is risking damaging the organization. By cooperating in this mis-representation your husband is perpetuating it.

If I were in this situation, I would approach the coach and give him the opportunity to approach the board himself. Telling him he has one week to tell them or else I would. I would explain that the actions have put the organization at legal risk, and the board needs to decide how to resolve the issue.

Then let the board handle it. Again, you husband isn’t the bad guy, that’s the guy who created this situation for himself, his family, and the board.
 
SeaShoreGirl said:
This is not a WE problem. This is your HUSBANDS problem. Not yours.

I find it highly doubtful that your husband is the ONLY one who knows. Somehow magically in a small town on a tight knit board he’s the only one? It REALLY dosn’t add up.

He has two options if he dosn’t want to “be the bad guy”. He can excuse himself from the board. This protects his name, and also any information he’s gotten as to this man’s status. Simply put, take away the position and he no longer is in a place to act, EVEN with the information. They can’t come after him after the fact.

Second, he can stay on the board and write an anonmous tip to the head of the board. This way the entire board can address it. Your husband is not the “bad guy” and if the head of the board chooses to ignore it, then I’d suggest your husband remove himself from the board.

This is not as “yucky” as you are making it. This is not your husband’s employee, he never should of spoken to you about this…and you MAY be jumping to conclusions. This guy could be a foriegn national or even someone in witness protection. He could be on an extended visa, he could have a million other reasons why he dosn’t appear legal…but is. He could also be illegal without his knowlage…as in overstaying a visa and thinking marriage lets him stay automatically. As his background clearned becuase people WANTED it to and he hasn’t been questioned becuase people don’t ask. And in that case, your husband may soil the name of a good man.
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Why should my husband not discuss this with me??? He isnt a lawyer or a phychiatrist or a priest. There is no confidentiality agreements. I dont know if you are married or not but we are a partnership, we discuss things with one another and encourage one another …this coach actually told another guy who no longer coaches there that he isnt legal while out drinking. We are not “out to get him” as you suggest…why such venom? I did not want to go on and on making this an overly long post so did not go into lengthy boring detail, but he is definitly not legal and definitely lied about his credentials. I assure you my husband checked into things before “jumping to conclusions” - that isnt the issue- he is not taking this lightly which is why it feels so “icky”. All the people who found this out have quit…my husband has told one other person while they prepare to tell the rest of the board.
 
I agree with people who pointed out the following. Here is what we know about this guy.
  1. He is a liar.
  2. He is doing something illegal
Based on 1 and 2, he should be reported to the authorities and should lose his job.

I don’t really look at things as far as “he’s well liked” or “he’s a nice guy.” Based on being someone who is breaking the law and lied to get his job, he should be without a job and deported back to Europe.
 
petitfleur said:
Why should my husband not discuss this with me??? He isnt a lawyer or a phychiatrist or a priest. There is no confidentiality agreements. I dont know if you are married or not but we are a partnership, we discuss things with one another and encourage one another …this coach actually told another guy who no longer coaches there that he isnt legal while out drinking. We are not “out to get him” as you suggest…why such venom? I did not want to go on and on making this an overly long post so did not go into lengthy boring detail, but he is definitly not legal and definitely lied about his credentials. I assure you my husband checked into things before “jumping to conclusions” - that isnt the issue- he is not taking this lightly which is why it feels so “icky”. All the people who found this out have quit…my husband has told one other person while they prepare to tell the rest of the board.
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There’s no venom in my post, only commen sence.

Yes, marriage is an parternship, however, things like clubs usually do have cofidentality agreements, and as an HR person your husband should be even more acuetly aware of the danger in telling even someone he trusts such information. For the very reason that she might do something frivious…like run to a message board where anyone with a penchant for hunting out illegals and their defendors can find out where you are. It’s not smart. Sorry. Yes your husband should communicate…but this is none of YOUR business, certinally not enough to start a message on a forum.

Your evidence sounds more like heresay than ever “The coach told another coach while the were out drinking?” Then what? your husband dug through I-9’s and immigration records. And if the coach IS getting out and drinking enough to make him say such a thing they’res bigger problems and again, I’m sure more people know than your husband.

All the people have delt with it in the way they feel comfortable. Guess what? Maybe that IS the right way to deal with it. There’s certinally something fishy going on within this whole sceneriao and more likely your husband will have things blow up in his face. And by poking your nose in and putting your 2 cents in, things could get ugly for you, too.

He is SO worried about being liable for just “knowing”??? And when he’s called to testify and they ask “who else knew” and he mentions that he told you…I mean seriously. If I was married and my husband had information that he felt would get him in BIG trouble, I’d trust him not to tell me the details in order to protect MY freedom. If “knowing” is such a bad thing, then NO this is not part of communication.
 
So, we have this man here who:
  1. Is in the country illegally.
  2. Doesn’t have a coaching certificate
  3. Presented false papers to the club, or the club didn’t ask
The club is taking money from people to have them coached by a liar and a cheat. Even if the parents are only interested in winning at all costs, still, they would not be happy if they were being defrauded by the club.

petitfleur’s husband, an HR person, knows the situation. If confronted, he can’t simply mumble, “I didn’t know the law”, because, of course, he knows the law as an HR person.

So, to protect the club, the board has to be made aware of what he knows.

Let’s remember, the coach created this situation by his deceitful actions. petitfleur’s husband is innocent in this.
 
petitfleur said:
My DH is a member of a local sports association and it turns out the director of coaching is not only an illegal immigrant but lied about his coaching license and accredition. We have lost some good coaches becuase of him.
OTOH He has two young kids and another on the way…is a good coach and liked by the families he coaches. He has been here a long time and nobody on the board knew any of these things. My DH is sitting on this information for now not sure what to do next. I just hate that it is him who has to clean up other peoples messes, and potentially ruin another person’s life. Not to mention that desperate people do desparate things in desperate situations. This could get ugly. sigh I guess I just need some morale support!
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Sorry, I have to disagree with several people here who seemed to be suggesting you ignore this. There are many reasons not to:

First, if something were to happen to a child at this point, and this information came out, your DH may have some legal liability. (He could have prevented an incident, and did not.)

If someone came to work for you, and lied about their credentials, would you hold them in a high degree of trust? Would you look the other way? At many companies today, the person would be fired immediately, no questions asked. Trust is highly important, and forging credentials is not trustworthy.

DH did not create this issue. Now that he knows, DH does have a responsibility to address the issue.

If this coach is paid by the association, then now that your husband knows (I assume he is part of the association) then the association - and possibly your husband depending upon his position) is in violation of the law also. (It is illegal to employee illegal aliens.)

If this person is being paid, they would have had to falsify ID, social security records etc. This is identity theft.

This is a big deal. Your husband needs to report it and move on.
 
He is going tonight to discuss this with the board…there was never any question on what he should do really just a vent on an uncomfortable situation. He is legally responsible, and keeping this secret would eat away at him.The board can decide what to do.
Another problem with the lack of credentials is that the good teams who are good enough to play in the bigger tournaments require the coaches to present proof of certificates, and since he doesnt have them they cant play in them…which is a shame becuase these bigger tournaments are where college recruiters would go. the mess seems to get bigger and bigger. My husband said he is finishing the year out on this board then never joining another board again!!! He did try to quit before all these things came to light but they asked him to stay on becuase he managed to raise a lot of money for the club. They might regret that agter tonight!!!
So I ask for prayers for my husband and all the people involved including this coach and his family.
 
SeaShoreGirl said:
There’s no venom in my post, only commen sence.

Yes, marriage is an parternship, however, things like clubs usually do have cofidentality agreements, and as an HR person your husband should be even more acuetly aware of the danger in telling even someone he trusts such information. For the very reason that she might do something frivious…like run to a message board where anyone with a penchant for hunting out illegals and their defendors can find out where you are. It’s not smart. Sorry. Yes your husband should communicate…but this is none of YOUR business, certinally not enough to start a message on a forum.

Your evidence sounds more like heresay than ever “The coach told another coach while the were out drinking?” Then what? your husband dug through I-9’s and immigration records. And if the coach IS getting out and drinking enough to make him say such a thing they’res bigger problems and again, I’m sure more people know than your husband.

All the people have delt with it in the way they feel comfortable. Guess what? Maybe that IS the right way to deal with it. There’s certinally something fishy going on within this whole sceneriao and more likely your husband will have things blow up in his face. And by poking your nose in and putting your 2 cents in, things could get ugly for you, too.

He is SO worried about being liable for just “knowing”??? And when he’s called to testify and they ask “who else knew” and he mentions that he told you…I mean seriously. If I was married and my husband had information that he felt would get him in BIG trouble, I’d trust him not to tell me the details in order to protect MY freedom. If “knowing” is such a bad thing, then NO this is not part of communication.
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No he has no confidentiality agreement in this matter.This is a fact not an opinion. Despite the immigration, his dishonesty about his credentials are confirmed. If sombody is going through Catholic message boards hunting down illegals…and thier “defendors” have at it. I am not worried. I havent done anything wrong.You might think of me as some some “frivious” house wife blabbing away on anonymous message board, causing problems for illegals- thats your opinion.If you are right and this whole thing is just a misunderstanding on my husbands part then no real harm done.
 
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