Zimbabwe Changed My Mind: Guns Are A Human Right

[aimee]

gilliam:

What about to save your kid’s life?

I’d do it. Many southerners own guns …and can use them.

I wouldn’t mind having a taser for protection…but I’m not so sure the public can buy them

 

[gilliam]

Shinobu:

If I’m up against a squad of soldiers I don’t think a gun is going to take them all out. Should we all own semi-automatic rifles?

Zimbabwe has alot more problems then that.

A neighborhood of people with guns can hold off a squad or a gang. One man with a gun can hold of a group off thugs. A tazer ain’t going to do it. Tazers are good for one on one situations, but little else.

If it comes to having to own semi-automatic rifles, sure. It is your right to live. You and your family have certain God given rights that are part of Natural Law. They include the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Gee… where did I hear that before?

Guns are not intrinsically evil, any more than any other tool is.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Shinobu:

Use a tazer or use mace. Why do you guys assume that we must kill the person? There is a myriad of tools we can use that DON’T kill a person.

The most effective tool that doesn’t kill a person is a gun. Again and again, it has been shown that in more than 90% of the cases when a gun is used defensively, it isn’t fired.

Being armed prevents you from having to kill in most cases.

 

[HagiaSophia]

catsrus:

So now it’s my DUTY as a Catholic to to use force because it’s a “holy” thing to do so? Well, off I go to Confession for not doing my DUTY to protect me and mine because I refuse to have WMDs under my roof.
And, BTW, owning a gun is NOT a “human right”. Last I understood, it’s an American right by way of the 2nd ammendment.

You know, it is perfectly fine to disagree - but there is no need to twist what is being said.

No one has said you are being forced to do anything…if you will reread the posts in the thread, you are taking them out of context.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Why are some of you equating guns with killing? Guns allow you to disable someone at a distance. And then run away. Hand to hand combat is not something I look forward to even though I am trained. There are too many people out there that are bigger than I am and much more highly trained. Having said all that, I don’t know how to use a gun. Carrying a gun in Canada would be a paradigm change. And to tell you the truth, I am afraid.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by HagiaSophia
You know, it is perfectly fine to disagree - but there is no need to twist what is being said.

No one has said you are being forced to do anything…if you will reread the posts in the thread, you are taking them out of context.

Yes I know it’s fine to disagree and I do. I twisted nothing. I am aware no one used the word “force”; the word “duty” was used and in the context of the remark it was implied that one who is not willing to do that “duty” is remiss as a Catholic. That is insulting at the least and arrogant. Further, I stand by my declaration that a gun is not a “human right”.
The type of comments made to a person who disagrees is exactly why I seldom participate in this particular forum. Opinions outside the box are never given any merit or credibility, only derision.

 

[vern_humphrey]

catsrus:

Yes I know it’s fine to disagree and I do. I twisted nothing. I am aware no one used the word “force”; the word “duty” was used and in the context of the remark it was implied that one who is not willing to do that “duty” is remiss as a Catholic.

The Church disagrees with you:

[2265](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2265.htm’) Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

You are responsible for your family – and that includes defending them against unjust attackers.

catsrus:

That is insulting at the least and arrogant. Further, I stand by my declaration that a gun is not a “human right”.

The right to life is most certainly a human right. The right to self-defense is inherent in the right to life. Therefore the means for self defense are a human right.

catsrus:

The type of comments made to a person who disagrees is exactly why I seldom participate in this particular forum. Opinions outside the box are never given any merit or credibility, only derision.

You’re projecting.

 

[tcay584]

Ani Ibi:

Why are some of you equating guns with killing? Guns allow you to disable someone at a distance. And then run away. Hand to hand combat is not something I look forward to even though I am trained. There are too many people out there that are bigger than I am and much more highly trained. Having said all that, I don’t know how to use a gun. Carrying a gun in Canada would be a paradigm change. And to tell you the truth, I am afraid.

That’s a great point Ani! I don’t know if I’d ever be able to shoot to kill someone…but I’m pretty sure I could shoot and hurt them enough to make them stop coming after me or mine. No one says “You must aim for the head, heart, lungs, or stomach”. What about just popping them in the leg or foot, then calling an ambulance as you’re removing yourself from the situation? I don’t see gun holders as a bunch of marauding miscreants…just regular people who see what’s going on around them and don’t want their wife, daughter, or self to become another statistic.
On a lighter note…my hubby has a lovely scar on his booty where a farmer shot him with a bow and arrow b/c he and his brother were trying to make off with a watermelon from his farm. Not so funny at the time…but I sure laughed when he told me the story! No, I am not advocating bow and arrow violence…but you don’t have to have a gun to make your point!

 

[vern_humphrey]

tcay584:

That’s a great point Ani! I don’t know if I’d ever be able to shoot to kill someone…but I’m pretty sure I could shoot and hurt them enough to make them stop coming after me or mine. No one says “You must aim for the head, heart, lungs, or stomach”. What about just popping them in the leg or foot, then calling an ambulance as you’re removing yourself from the situation?

If you carry a gun, you should be trained in its use. Many who have no familiarity with guns have some strange ideas (no offense meant.)

First of all, being armed has one distinct advantage – YOU know you can defend yourself, and that comes through in your body language. Phil Shoemaker (who is a sourdough’s sourdough) discussed this point in an article on defending yourself from bear attacks – being armed gives you the confidence to behave properly, and not look like prey to the bear.

Second, in the vast majority of the cases, you will not have to fire. Very few criminals will press the attack when they know you are armed.

Third, actually shooting a firearm is using deadly force, regardless of where you aim. Therefore when you shoot, you MUST have justification for using deadly force. When you say you would shoot at an arm or a leg, you are admitting you did NOT have justification for shooting at all.

Fourth, shooting is a difficult skill to master. To shoot a handgun accurately under stress, often in bad light, takes all the skill you can muster. Under those circumstances, experienced people will tell you to shoot for “center of mass.” Only in the old Western movies could someone shoot a gun out of a bad guy’s hand.

I carry a gun so I WON’T need one – being armed is the best way to avoid getting caught in a life-threatening situation.

 

[aimee]

vern humphrey:

If you carry a gun, you should be trained in its use. Many who have no familiarity with guns have some strange ideas (no offense meant.)

First of all, being armed has one distinct advantage – YOU know you can defend yourself, and that comes through in your body language. Phil Shoemaker (who is a sourdough’s sourdough) discussed this point in an article on defending yourself from bear attacks – being armed gives you the confidence to behave properly, and not look like prey to the bear.

Second, in the vast majority of the cases, you will not have to fire. Very few criminals will press the attack when they know you are armed.

Third, actually shooting a firearm is using deadly force, regardless of where you aim. Therefore when you shoot, you MUST have justification for using deadly force. When you say you would shoot at an arm or a leg, you are admitting you did NOT have justification for shooting at all.

Fourth, shooting is a difficult skill to master. To shoot a handgun accurately under stress, often in bad light, takes all the skill you can muster. Under those circumstances, experienced people will tell you to shoot for “center of mass.” Only in the old Western movies could someone shoot a gun out of a bad guy’s hand.

I carry a gun so I WON’T need one – being armed is the best way to avoid getting caught in a life-threatening situation.

I grew up around guns and my father was a gun collector and hunter. He had all types of guns…as you say …he also talked gun safety . Isn’t that common in the south?

 

[vern_humphrey]

aimee:

I grew up around guns and my father was a gun collector and hunter. He had all types of guns…as you say …he also talked gun safety . Isn’t that common in the south?

Yes, indeed. Right now, my wife and I live on a pretty remote farm in the Ozarks – if we need protection, we have to provide it ourselves.

At the same time, we live in a paradise of wild game – from bear to squirrels and everything in between.

So guns and gun safety are part of our way of life.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

vern humphrey:

Yes, indeed. Right now, my wife and I live on a pretty remote farm in the Ozarks – if we need protection, we have to provide it ourselves.

At the same time, we live in a paradise of wild game – from bear to squirrels and everything in between.

So guns and gun safety are part of our way of life.

My grandparents lived out on a farm. When Pawpaw was away (he was a county commissioner), Grandmother slept with a stout pistol under the bed. She knew how to use it, too. Any fool who had accosted my sweet gran would have only done it once.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

Third, actually shooting a firearm is using deadly force, regardless of where you aim. Therefore when you shoot, you MUST have justification for using deadly force. When you say you would shoot at an arm or a leg, you are admitting you did NOT have justification for shooting at all.

You’re right Vern. I just get tired of explaining this to people. The day I found out I could use deadly force was the day I stopped needing to.
vern humphrey:

experienced people will tell you to shoot for “center of mass.” Only in the old Western movies could someone shoot a gun out of a bad guy’s hand.

You’re right again, Vern. If the person I just shot can get up, then I didn’t aim right.

 

[jsk]

This is always such a sad subject for me. I am an avid gun owner, I shoot competition with both handgun and shotgun. I own and use my guns for pleasure, and have no desire to hurt anyone.

If my family were threatened, I would not hesitate to use deadly force, but the objective would not be to kill the guilty, but to protect the innocent.

 

[vern_humphrey]

jsk:

This is always such a sad subject for me. I am an avid gun owner, I shoot competition with both handgun and shotgun. I own and use my guns for pleasure, and have no desire to hurt anyone.

If my family were threatened, I would not hesitate to use deadly force, but the objective would not be to kill the guilty, but to protect the innocent.

You’re absolutely correct – one does not have a right to kill, nor an intention to do so. One uses deadly force only when there is no other choice, to stop an unjust attacker from killing or greviously injuring an innocent person.

I notice one thing, a matter I’ve discussed with a lot of other people who carry guns. Going armed affects your reactions to a lot of situations. In cases where you’d normally angry, you tend to be calmer – because you’re aware of the responsibility that goes with going armed. You tend to be more alert, more intent on avoiding trouble, and less likely to allow your emotions to rule your behavior.