Zionism: A heresy or a political ideology?

[murtad]

Assalam alaikum to brothers and sisters in Christ.

There exist some Christians who are mostly Arabic-speaking claiming that Zionism is a heresy even without knowing what heresy means.

Within the Catholic Church, only an Ecumenical Council can declare something heretical. Arianism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism (a.k.a. Miaphysitism), Monothelitism and Iconoclastism are Christian heresies as these belief-systems alter Christian theology. However, Zionism is a secular political ideology that is neither anti Christian nor anti Catholic. None of the Ecumenical Councils, from Nicea to Vatican II have condemned Zionism as a heresy.

The CCC allows Christians to hold diverse political ideologies, regardless Liberalism, Socialism, Conservativism, or Nationalism. With regards to Zionism, I observe that it is very like Arabism. The former is Hebrew-speaking nationalism, while the latter is Arabic-speaking nationalism. Both are secular ideologies and both seek to unite human beings regardless of race and religion under one language.

Many devout Christians are proud to be Zionists because they see Hebrew language as a very beautiful language. While I am fluent in Arabic due to my Muslim background, I freely confess that Arabic is a language of Islamic propaganda. I am able to confess the Nicene Creed in the Hebrew language and I love mass in Hebrew.

IMV, the reason why the Arab world hates Zionism so much is due to the overhelming Muslim hatred for multi culturalism. What is needed archieve a pro-Christian Middle East is promoting multi culturalism in both Egypt and Jordan so everyone regardless Christian or Muslim has freedom of speech, which is the right to speak or not speak any language! If Egyptians (or Jordanians) prefer to speak Hebrew or French instead of Arabic, this is their right! The freedom of identity is the freedom to be Catholics

I pray for the day all nationalities in particular Islamic states will respect the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights and accord equal treatment to all adherents of every faith, language and race.

In Christ our Lord.

An Apostate Muslim.

 

[Kaninchen]

Pakistan came into existence in 1947 out of the desire of Muslims in India to have a state of their own. Partition brought chaos to both Pakistan and India, huge numbers (about 14-15 million) were displaced, nearly half a million died. Pakistan has been notable for political corruption, numerous military coups, civil war, social backwardness and repression . . . .

Israel came into existence in 1948 . . . . . .

 

[meedo]

Pakistan came into existence in 1947 out of the desire of Muslims in India to have a state of their own. Partition brought chaos to both Pakistan and India, huge numbers (about 14-15 million) were displaced, nearly half a million died. Pakistan has been notable for political corruption, numerous military coups, civil war, social backwardness and repression . . . .

Israel came into existence in 1948 . . . . . .

and since then has been responsible for the occupation , backwardness and repression of the people of palestine.

 

[Petergee]

Zionism (the idea that those of Jewish descent should have a homeland in the Holy Land) is a secular political ideology. Especially in its early years it was aggressively secular and anti-religious. It is a form of nationalism. Although nationalism per se is not condemned by the Church, she does warn of the danger of putting one’s nation or anything else above God.

In recent years some Christians have seen some religious significance about the establishment of the modern republic of Israel. The Church does NOT endorse this view, although I wouldn’t call it “heresy” unless it was taken to the extremes that some do, eg asserting that the existence of the state of Israel means that the end of the world is nigh, and/or that Christians have a religious duty to support (or alternatively a *religious *duty to oppose) the state of Israel, etc.

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

all of the great jews are anti-zionist.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

and since then has been responsible for the occupation , backwardness and repression of the people of palestine.

israel came into existence for the same reason that pakistan did. religious motivations…

and since the creation of pakistan it has been responsible for the death of numerous hindus, foreigners, christians, non-muslims, and muslims.

also has been responsible for a large majority of the drug trade along with afghanistan.

 

[Lev23]

and since then has been responsible for the occupation , backwardness and repression of the people of palestine.

Still, despite all those who hate Israel for all it stands for, it is the only democracy in that region. Since these “palestineans” wish for the Israelis to stop occupying their land, why stop there, why not demand the same from Jordan?

There is nothing wrong with zionism, its in scripture. The idea of the Jews coming back into the land is not 150 years old, but was written by the hebrew prophets. Yeah, it might not be pretty right now, but what is in this world? St.Paul said all Israel will be saved when the deliverer will come out of Zion. At Jesus’ second coming, there will be of course a remnant of Israel saved in his church, but all those who look upon him when he returns to the Mount of Olives will be saved, hence all Israel will be saved.

You might say Israel today has nothing in common with ancient Israel, you are right. Why do you think they have to be saved when the deliverer comes out of Zion? But they are not the terrorist state people make them out to be.

 

[meedo]

israel came into existence for the same reason that pakistan did. religious motivations…

and since the creation of pakistan it has been responsible for the death of numerous hindus, foreigners, christians, non-muslims, and muslims.

also has been responsible for a large majority of the drug trade along with afghanistan.

I ma sorry there is a big difference. Israel came into eistance by a rapid collonialisation of europeans jews that didnt live in this land nor owned it. This occured while the original people of the land where occupied by the british .

The people of pakistan didnt migrate to pakistan . THEY ARE the people who ave been living there all the time. The Creation of pakistan didnt mean another identity or a different set of people.

As for drug trade and civil war. Much worse have happened in Christian countries .

I am not against Jews or Judaism , i am against colonialisation and opression of the original people of the land. There are non zionist jews to which i have all respect and admiration . But zionism proved to be bad for jews as well for palestinians. How can one believe that you van go and colonialize a country and a people and expect that all the neighbours of these people will love you or be at peace with you . Israel is in the middle of overwhelmingly Muslim arab identity. They are doing insjustice to those palestinians whom the whole arab world call brothers .

what future of peace does this policy hold?

I have no problem in jews coming to my country to flee from holocaust and become part of the society. But to take it over and one ends up beng opressed then this wouldnt hold any future for peace.

May we have peace and justice for us all , Amen

Meedo

 

[Lev23]

May we have peace and justice for us all , Amen

Meedo

Only when the King of Israel, Jesus, the prince of Peace comes back here to Earth.

 

[Lev23]

I have no problem in jews coming to my country to flee from holocaust and become part of the society. But to take it over and one ends up beng opressed then this wouldnt hold any future for peace.

Meedo

At least when those Jews came back to the land of their ancestors, they could dig up evidence of their heritage, as well as burial grounds, the Temple Mount, etc. Not only that, the land there is now flourishing, go there some time to see it. Ever read how Mark Twain described the land when he visited there?

As far as your comment on the Jews becoming a part of soceity and taking it over, hasn’t the muslim religion done the same thing to many Arab countries?

 

[meedo]

Still, despite all those who hate Israel for all it stands for, it is the only democracy in that region. Since these “palestineans” wish for the Israelis to stop occupying their land, why stop there, why not demand the same from Jordan?

There is nothing wrong with zionism, its in scripture. The idea of the Jews coming back into the land is not 150 years old, but was written by the hebrew prophets. Yeah, it might not be pretty right now, but what is in this world? St.Paul said all Israel will be saved when the deliverer will come out of Zion. At Jesus’ second coming, there will be of course a remnant of Israel saved in his church, but all those who look upon him when he returns to the Mount of Olives will be saved, hence all Israel will be saved.

You might say Israel today has nothing in common with ancient Israel, you are right. Why do you think they have to be saved when the deliverer comes out of Zion? But they are not the terrorist state people make them out to be.

Israel is a democracy for the jews only. an opressor for palestinians . Same was south africa racist system. A thief can run a gang democractically . Still he is a thief .

The palestinians are the arabs of the Modern borders of the state of israel and the refugees that fled to other neighbouring arab countries like Jordan. Their orginal land is not Jordan But palestine.

Western Christianity beief system has no right to impose its interpretation of the bible on the Eastern Christians and muslims and non zionist jews . I can counter your religious validation with another religious validation and it would never end . The Point is that this is someone elses land . If you want to come and be part of it is totally different from coming and occupying it.

Nobody says all israelis are monsters or terrorists many of them which justice to the palestinians but zionist elements are in the way . But it is all fair to say that the policy and the condictions and the deprevaion of rights of the palestinian people is nothing bt a policy of state terror.

Peace

Meedo

 

[b_justb]

Meedo,

Do you feel this strong about the lands in Africa held by the French? Do you also speak out against the French occupation of the lands they were given after WW2?

Israel is a democracy for the jews only. an opressor for palestinians . Same was south africa racist system. A thief can run a gang democractically . Still he is a thief .

The palestinians are the arabs of the Modern borders of the state of israel and the refugees that fled to other neighbouring arab countries like Jordan. Their orginal land is not Jordan But palestine.

Western Christianity beief system has no right to impose its interpretation of the bible on the Eastern Christians and muslims and non zionist jews . I can counter your religious validation with another religious validation and it would never end . The Point is that this is someone elses land . If you want to come and be part of it is totally different from coming and occupying it.

Nobody says all israelis are monsters or terrorists many of them which justice to the palestinians but zionist elements are in the way . But it is all fair to say that the policy and the condictions and the deprevaion of rights of the palestinian people is nothing bt a policy of state terror.

Peace

Meedo

 

[Lev23]

Israel is a democracy for the jews only. an opressor for palestinians . Same was south africa racist system. A thief can run a gang democractically . Still he is a thief .

Meedo

Paa–leeeassse! You need to get your information from sources other than youtube. Every citizen of Israel, Jewish, Arab, Druze, Circassian, or anyone else can vote.

Arabs can and do serve in the Knesset, either in the major parties (Likud, Labor) or in their own exclusivist parties. Arabs can and do sit on the Supreme Court. Arabs can and do play on the Israeli national soccer team (and become the heros of the country when they score a last minute goal to keep Israel in World Cup qualifying!!). Arabs can and do partake in all aspects of Israeli social and political life.

Arab countires round a-bout would benefit greatly from Israel’s technological genius, and Israel would be gracious enough to work with them.

Instead, the whole world wants Israel to give back land so the nation is about the size of Auschwitz.

 

[meedo]

At least when those Jews came back to the land of their ancestors, they could dig up evidence of their heritage, as well as burial grounds, the Temple Mount, etc. Not only that, the land there is now flourishing, go there some time to see it. Ever read how Mark Twain described the land when he visited there?

As far as your comment on the Jews becoming a part of soceity and taking it over, hasn’t the muslim religion done the same thing to many Arab countries?

When you dig up across Egypt you will find pharonic monuments all over the place. However the pharoughts have ceased to exist since thousands of years ago. Modern day Egyptians are not pharous nor they talk pharounic nor they wish to be pharounic again. And someone who trace his ancestry to Ramses has no right to come and claim Egypt as his own . Same with the jews .

As for the land flourishing, it is a subjective decription. and it was flourishing and beautiful before the europeans came as well.

As for the Muslim conquests that was more than a thousand years ago. The jews also conquested palestine in the begning and it wasnt their own . We can go back before Judaism even and claim that they took it from the orihginal people.

Imagine having a communist state in the middle of the american midwest. It just doesnt work. Same as a European colonial identity in the middle of eastern arab land. It just doesnt work. Even jews themselves have called it a mistake .

salam

 

[meedo]

Meedo,

Do you feel this strong about the lands in Africa held by the French? Do you also speak out against the French occupation of the lands they were given after WW2?

The concept is the same . And the soloution should be the same. As for me feelig the same , not quite as strong ofcourse because i share so much with palestinians as we speak the same language and we are neighbours and nearly share the same culture. But i do feel strong ofcourse. .

 

[Lev23]

When you dig up across Egypt you will find pharonic monuments all over the place. However the pharoughts have ceased to exist since thousands of years ago. Modern day Egyptians are not pharous nor they talk pharounic nor they wish to be pharounic again. And someone who trace his ancestry to Ramses has no right to come and claim Egypt as his own . Same with the jews .

salam

Thats the amazing thing about the Jews, they speak the same language, worship the same God, and get this, they celebrate the same Passover God gave to them thousands of years ago when God delivered them from same ancient Egypt you speak of.

 

[meedo]

Paa–leeeassse! You need to get your information from sources other than youtube. Every citizen of Israel, Jewish, Arab, Druze, Circassian, or anyone else can vote.

Arabs can and do serve in the Knesset, either in the major parties (Likud, Labor) or in their own exclusivist parties. Arabs can and do sit on the Supreme Court. Arabs can and do play on the Israeli national soccer team (and become the heros of the country when they score a last minute goal to keep Israel in World Cup qualifying!!). Arabs can and do partake in all aspects of Israeli social and political life.

Arab countires round a-bout would benefit greatly from Israel’s technological genius, and Israel would be gracious enough to work with them.

Instead, the whole world wants Israel to give back land so the nation is about the size of Auschwitz.

Every citizen can vote, thats easy, to hear that the Internal Intelligence Unit ‘‘AMAAN’’ say that the vote wouldnt matter any way if it risk the jewishness of israel then thats an obsolete meaningless vote .

Every citizen can vote: speacially eductaed citizens , when the amounts of funds allocated to arab education is same as the amount goven to jews then e can see about the turnouts .

Jews have the right to be citizens of Israel even if they havent set foot . Arabs who lived in whats now israel and are refgees and have keys to their homes cant set foot there !

Arab players in the israeli football team feel weaird when they salute a national anthem that is directed to Jews and talks about the jewish state and mentions the following:

''As long as the **Jewish **spirit is yearning deep in the heart,

With eyes turned toward the East, looking toward Zion,

Then our hope - the two-thousand-year-old hope - will not be lost:

To be a free people in our land,

The land of Zion and Jerusalem.
‘’

Arab Israeli football teams are hurled racials slurs against them by zionist when even playing in the name of teh state of israel.

Arabs doesnt need the technological genius of israel. When we get rid of the american pampered dictators who keep corupting every aspect of our lives we will be capable enough of surpassing any goal we set.

BTH aswhitz happened on the hands of the most advanced and industrial country in europe . germany . Still that didnt stop them from commiting genocide against jews . israle might be technologically advanced. Doesnt really give any slight indictaion aout them bieng morally right.

Technological Progress doesnt elevate humanity. you and me are not more human or worthy of respect than a beduin in the desert because we chat on the internet .

Arabs have excelled numerous times in the past when the circumstances were adequte. we ca n do it again and lead the world in science when the circumstances becomes again adequate.

thanks for your reply.

salam

 

[Lev23]

As for the land flourishing, it is a subjective decription. and it was flourishing and beautiful before the europeans came as well.

Sure it was, if you consider marshland flourishing. I heard of those who saw the western wall pre '67 that said it was part of a back-ally, was dirty, and smelled like a latrine. No spacious plaza for tourists or worship at the western wall before Israel took it over.

And at least these “Europeans” are bringing in Jews from all countries, for example, Ethiopian Jews. Like I said in another post, other than Israel, what country actually brought in black Africans to live in their country freely and not for slavery?

 

[estesbob]

and since then has been responsible for the occupation , backwardness and repression of the people of palestine.

The territories you claim are occupied were under Arab control for the first 20 years of Israels existnec. Why werent they given to the Palestinians then?

The truh of the matter is that the Palestinians have been treatd worse by Arabsa that they have by Jews.

 

[meedo]

Sure it was, if you consider marshland flourishing. I heard of those who saw the western wall pre '67 that said it was part of a back-ally, was dirty, and smelled like a latrine. No spacious plaza for tourists or worship at the western wall before Israel took it over.

And at least these “Europeans” are bringing in Jews from all countries, for example, Ethiopian Jews. Like I said in another post, other than Israel, what country actually brought in black Africans to live in their country freely and not for slavery?

I conisder the nature as God created it flourishing. I am sorry that you consider flourishing to be a spacious plaza for tourists. But let me tell you that the alleys are what is left of ancient jerusalem. Just because they are dusty then it doesnt mean they are dirty. .

let me tell you that the Ethiopian jews ARE discriminated against in Israel . Ad let me tell you that they are by european standards were not considered real jews , same was yemenite jews are hurled ‘’ arabs’’ against them because they have arab culture .

racism is rife in israel as any eropean country. The scandal of the blood donated by the ethiopian jews that were thrown in the garbage for fear of aids is ewll known. yemenite jews had No place in jewish society untill teh 80s when famous yemenite jewish singer Ophrah Khazah became phamous. Yemenite jews were forced to shed their gowns at ben Gurion airport and were given shorts and t shirst to look mroe european and still they were segregated in separate ghettos IN israel .

As for any other country then let me tell you that my own country Egypt comprises of all colours .

The nubians in the south are black coloured as you can get and are considered th most kind hearted people of Egypt . and companies race to hire them for their loyalty and for their ethics.

when i used to work as an accountant in an accounting firm a nubian would lead us in prayers all the time and he have the most beautiful voice. in recitation.

Thats more than enough to say about Israel

salam