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Valke2
Guest
I consider myself a great jew and I’m zionist.
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b_justb
Guest
Hey! You can’t call yourself Great. Someone else has to call you Great.
I dub upon thee the title of Great.
There. Now you can be called Great by yourself and any and all else. Carry on.
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Yerusalyim
Guest
OK,
I’m not even going to read the rest of this…I stop here with this:
So many time throughout the last 50 years all the “Palestinians” had to do was decide that A) Israel has the right to exist and B) they want to live in peace with Israel, and peace would be acheived.
The Arabs (because, face it, there is no such thing as a "palestinian) rejected the partition plan posed by the UN that was HIGHLY favorable to the Arabs. Has Israeli methods been harsh? Yes, but why? Why was the West Bank and Gaza occupied in 1967? Because the Arabs were using these as staging basis to launch attacks against Israel…the same with the war in Lebenon…etc, etc etc…
If the Palestinians would reject terror and violence and embrace peace…there would be peace…
And as to the MORONIC notion that Israel represents democracy only for the Jews needs to go to talk to the Arab Israeli citizens that vote and the Arab Israeli members of the Kinneset.
I’m not even going to read the rest of this…I stop here with this:
No, The PALESTINIANS and their “brother Arabs” are responsible for the occupation of, the backwardness of the and repression of the “people of palestine.”
So many time throughout the last 50 years all the “Palestinians” had to do was decide that A) Israel has the right to exist and B) they want to live in peace with Israel, and peace would be acheived.
The Arabs (because, face it, there is no such thing as a "palestinian) rejected the partition plan posed by the UN that was HIGHLY favorable to the Arabs. Has Israeli methods been harsh? Yes, but why? Why was the West Bank and Gaza occupied in 1967? Because the Arabs were using these as staging basis to launch attacks against Israel…the same with the war in Lebenon…etc, etc etc…
If the Palestinians would reject terror and violence and embrace peace…there would be peace…
And as to the MORONIC notion that Israel represents democracy only for the Jews needs to go to talk to the Arab Israeli citizens that vote and the Arab Israeli members of the Kinneset.
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meedo
Guest
I think you are in denial . The partition plan highly favoured the arabs!!!
democracy isnt only about a vote and a member of parliment ( especially if the member of parliment is in exile fir fear of imprisonment )
Can you tell me sir why ONLY jews are allowed to immigrate and get citizenships in Israel ? Can you tell me why funds allocated for education and for infrastructure is far less than jewish neighborhoods?
Can you tell me what do you make of Millions of palestinians in the occupied terretories? where is the democracy for them? are they allowed to vote also ?
Lets talk about peace shall we . Egypt has been at peace with Israel for 30 years with no problems on condiction that it got its land back . Arabs have offered a comprehensive peace plan to Israel since 2002 based on peace for withdrawal of occupied terretories ?
what we got was deafning silence.
No democracy is an occupier mister .
salam
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Petergee
Guest
Jordanian forces were ejected from Palestine in 1967 and in about 1980 Jordan abandoned any claim to any part of Palestine.
Referring to the Jews’ return from Babylon in the 6th century BC.
Jesus has already come out of Zion (the ancient Israelites). At His second coming He will come on the clouds of heaven.
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Petergee
Guest
European Jews were only a minority of them. The majority were Asian, African, American and Australian Jews.
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Petergee
Guest
Modern day Christian Egyptians still use the Coptic language in their Masses and liturgies - essentially the same language used by the pharoahs, and which was the language of Egypt until Moslem soldiers from Arabia conquered this ancient Christian country which has produced so many holy saints and doctors of the Church, and forced the Moslem religion and the Arabic language on the people.
So I guess it would be OK for Christians to take back Anatolia (Turkey) which the Moslems conquered only 500 years ago? Or for the Christians, Hindus, animists and Confucians to take back Malaysia and Indonesia?
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MelanieAnne
Guest
OK, there is a lot of fallacious dialog here. First, there is this big fat LIE that keeps getting repeated until many people believe it’s true and that LIE is that Israel is “occupying” anything. They are not. Israel is a country. They do not “occupy” another country.
The FACTS are that, 40 years ago, the (legally valid) State of Israel was attacked by many neighboring countries. Israel defeated all of them and ADVANCED their territorial position. THEY WON. THEY CONQUERED TERRITORY. There is no OCCUPATION of anything. Israel merely expanded their boundaries as a result of their success in war after being ATTACKED.
If the attackers had not wanted to create this scenario, they should have declined to attack. But they, in their ego, went ahead. They LOST. It was a gamble and they LOST. Now they want to PRETEND that Israel is “occupying” territory illegally, but that is false. Israel OWNS the territory conquered.
The lesson here is that neighbors should think it through before attacking any country. It is NOT that Israel is “occupying” Palestinian lands. The entire concept of “Israeli occupation” is a fiction perpetrated by those who want to ignore the truth. The attackers LOST, Israel WON. END OF STORY. There is NO OCCUPATION.
Since the 1967 defeat, neighboring countries have done NOTHING to help the people living in the so-called “Palestinian” territories. They have left them there in squalor for propaganda purposes. THEY are the ones that should be ashamed, not Israel. They have chosen to perpetuate the problem. Aid has been sent to these places and it is all stolen by corrupt Palestinian leaders. Nothing gets to the people.
Unless and until people start viewing this situation as it really is, instead of the fictional way that Palestinians and others want it to be portrayed, so that they can falsely show themselves as “victims”, there can be no progress.
Zionism is not a heresy. It is not a political ideology. It is a fiction perpetrated by those who would prefer to revise history rather than deal with reality. The first step is to discard the lie of “Israeli occupation”. Until that happens, it’s obvious the players are not dealing in reality, they are dealing in fiction.
The FACTS are that, 40 years ago, the (legally valid) State of Israel was attacked by many neighboring countries. Israel defeated all of them and ADVANCED their territorial position. THEY WON. THEY CONQUERED TERRITORY. There is no OCCUPATION of anything. Israel merely expanded their boundaries as a result of their success in war after being ATTACKED.
If the attackers had not wanted to create this scenario, they should have declined to attack. But they, in their ego, went ahead. They LOST. It was a gamble and they LOST. Now they want to PRETEND that Israel is “occupying” territory illegally, but that is false. Israel OWNS the territory conquered.
The lesson here is that neighbors should think it through before attacking any country. It is NOT that Israel is “occupying” Palestinian lands. The entire concept of “Israeli occupation” is a fiction perpetrated by those who want to ignore the truth. The attackers LOST, Israel WON. END OF STORY. There is NO OCCUPATION.
Since the 1967 defeat, neighboring countries have done NOTHING to help the people living in the so-called “Palestinian” territories. They have left them there in squalor for propaganda purposes. THEY are the ones that should be ashamed, not Israel. They have chosen to perpetuate the problem. Aid has been sent to these places and it is all stolen by corrupt Palestinian leaders. Nothing gets to the people.
Unless and until people start viewing this situation as it really is, instead of the fictional way that Palestinians and others want it to be portrayed, so that they can falsely show themselves as “victims”, there can be no progress.
Zionism is not a heresy. It is not a political ideology. It is a fiction perpetrated by those who would prefer to revise history rather than deal with reality. The first step is to discard the lie of “Israeli occupation”. Until that happens, it’s obvious the players are not dealing in reality, they are dealing in fiction.
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mark_a
Guest
Now why did you have to state the facts?
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MelanieAnne
Guest
It’s this sickness I have. Or syndrome. Or something like that. Anyway, I’m allergic to hypocrisy.
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Petergee
Guest
60-odd years ago, Germany and Japan illegally made war on France, Britain etc. They LOST. Britain, France etc OCCUPIED Germany and Japan. Then guess what? When they had restored peace they GAVE THESE COUNTRIES BACK to the people who lived in them and owned them. Israel should do the same. If it doesn’t think it’s peaceful and secure enough to do so YET, fine, then keep working towards peace. But to deny the obvious fact that they are occupying the Palestinian territories is stupid.
You’re dealing in fiction yourself. Surely you don’t seriously believe this nonsense?
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MelanieAnne
Guest
I see the truth is hard for you to grasp. That’s unfortunate. Years of propaganda, years of the lie being told over and over doesn’t change the truth. As long as you continue to believe there is an “occupation” you are perpetuating the lie that has been told for all these years.
There is no occupation. Israel won, the Arab aggressors that attacked them lost. There is no occupation.
Israel may give the conquered land back at some point in the future. It’s their choice. They don’t have to. They were the ones that were attacked. Unlike Germany and Japan, Israel was not the attacker, they were attacked by others. Your analogy is flawed and is therefore not pertinent.
Argue the issue if you must, but argue facts, not propaganda. The notion of “Israeli occupation” is propaganda, it’s a lie, it’s a device used to portray Israel as “bad” and Palestinians as “poor victims”. It’s not factual. A lie told repeatedly does not make that lie the truth.
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Petergee
Guest
Good Lord, I don’t believe this.
My analogy stated that Germany and Japan, like the arabs, were the attackers and lost, then they were occupied. I never accused Israel of being the attacker, take a deep breath and look at what I said.
I make no allocations of “Good” and “bad”, I merely stated the facts. The Palestinians were and are living in the palestine territories. The Israeli army is occupying these territories. This is not anyone’s “propaganda”, it is simple fact. If you don’t believe it why don’t you ask the commander of the Israeli army where his troops are, apart from in Israel itself. You’re unbelievable.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
There is no Israeli occupation. No matter how many times you say it, you cannot change the facts. Israel is not “occupying” Palestinian territories. Israelis may be using their military to maintain peace and order, but it is THEIR COUNTRY, the land you are talking about is land that they CONQUERED after being attacked by several other countries. Israel has every right to maintain peace and order in their own country.
The notion of “occupation” is a fraud perpetrated by those who wish to revise history to suit their needs.
I realize it is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been duped into believing a lie. That the lie continues to be repeated over and over to this day makes it more difficult. But that doesn’t change the fact that the notion of “occupation” is a lie. There is no occupation.
The notion of “occupation” is a fraud perpetrated by those who wish to revise history to suit their needs.
I realize it is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been duped into believing a lie. That the lie continues to be repeated over and over to this day makes it more difficult. But that doesn’t change the fact that the notion of “occupation” is a lie. There is no occupation.
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Petergee
Guest
So how come when we conquered the territories of Germany and Japan, they didn’t become OUR country instead of theirs? We won it fair and square!
How come when the US attacked Britain in 1812 and the British fought back and conquered washington, they didn’t get to keep it?
Maybe you’d better give the good folks at jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html and israel.org/MFA/Facts%20About%20Israel/State/ZIONISM-%20Background
the stunning news you’ve discovered, that Zionism is “fiction”. Or maybe you think the Jewish Library and the Israeli government have also been “duped” by the “lie”!
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Petergee
Guest
And oh dear, it looks like the Israeli government has also been “duped” into believing the “lie” that the occupied Palestinian territories have not become “THEIR OWN COUNTRY” but remain the Palestinians’ country :
israel.org/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/Population+in+Millions.htm
israel.org/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/Population+in+Millions.htm
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meedo
Guest
here is just a fresh evidence of discrimination aganst arabs in Israel
islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1184649498441&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout
''OCCUPIED JERUSALEM — Waking up to bulldozers pulverizing her home into rubble, British mother Jessica Barhum got a glimpse of what Israel has being doing with Palestinians for decades.
“You can’t believe a country like this would make a law against its own citizens,” tearful Barhum told Agence France-Presse (AFP).
The 32-year-old mother and her Israeli Arab husband woke up in shock at 5:00 AM to two Israeli bulldozers tearing down their two-bedroom house in the village of Ein Rafa, west of al-Quds (occupied East Jerusalem).
Pregnant Barhum was given just five minutes to vacate before implementing a demolition order against the house her husband Moussa spent eight years building on land owned by his family.
“I can’t believe that it’s lawful, that this law exists,” said Barhum, who grew up in the southern British city of Salisbury but moved to Al-Quds after marrying.
In 2005, Moussa was given legal notice he had 18 months to secure an Israeli permit to build the home or have it bulldozed. Up until the deadline, he was unable to get the hard-to-win permit.
For decades, Israel has been adopting a series of oppressive measures to force Palestinians out of the holy city, including systematic demolition of their homes.
Israeli authorities do not issue building permissions for Palestinians who are also banned from renovating their house unless with an Israeli permit, which they rarely get.
In 1968, Israel enacted a law allowing “illegal” houses to be razed even if permits are pending in the bureaucratic pipeline.
The law is disproportionately used against the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs rather than Jewish Israelis, according to AFP.
Last year, some 850 houses were demolished, most of them in the Arab sector, according to the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD).
And since 1967, 18,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the occupied territories, including Al-Quds.
ICAHD field coordinator Meir Margalit said Jewish homes are never demolished on the permit pretext under the 1968 law.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
Simple, we chose not to.
I’ll leave you to that which you seem to need to believe. It’s pointless to continue.
God Bless
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Petergee
Guest
Translation: You can’t produce one whit of evidence to support your outrageous and absurd assertions and wild conspiracy theories, which are flatly contradicted by the Israeli government and by universally respected Jewish authorities, so you’re going to just shuffle away and suck your thumb because you don’t have the guts and humility to say “Sorry, I was wrong”. How sad to see this, especially in a professed Catholic who claims to have the desire “to learn every day”.
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Maskill
Guest
I don’t really think it was choice that makes them different. If you look at the UN charter "It’s inadmissible to acquire territory by war"
-Maskill
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