‘A Catholic case for same-sex marriage’

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DaddyGirl said:
This is not true at all.
The gay people I know have intrinsically known that they were gay since early childhood.
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Yes - from early childhood, but not a birth. There is no gay gene. If you have a source show it.
 
Iron_Donkey said:
Perhaps, but neither does “from early child hood” indicate from birth.

And neither makes any difference as to the morality of the committing the acts.
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Very true

Indeed, the etiology of the attractions is irrelevant regarding the morality of the actions.

A pertinent quote
Hadrianus said:
I agree that terms must be carefully defined, and that some usages of “orientation” are incompatible with Catholic doctrine. This does not, however, mean that the Church condemns the term, properly understood. I agree with much of what you say above, apart from your opinion that the possibility of a biological cause for homosexual inclinations ( am taking the liberty of thinking that your use of ‘genetic’ also includes biology) is somehow contrary to Roman Catholic moral theology. As long ago as the 1930’s the idea was already being considered by moral theologians, and the authoritative Dictonary of Catholic Moral Theology, published under the auspices of Cardinal Palazzini in the reign of Pius XII considers it possible. I can cite it if you would like.

The idea, almost exclusively North American, that a disordered sexuality could not be inborn stems ultimately from a Pelagian conception of Original Sin. The orthodox Catholic position is that concupiscence, or disordered sexual desire, is one of the consequences of the Fall and is present in all people in different degrees and forms. A sexual attraction to members of the same sex is merely one form of this. Without the aid of sanctifying grace it is not possible to bring the disordered human passions under the control of right reason. Furthermore, in the present state of fallen humanity the vast majority of individuals are morally incapable of following or recognizing all of the precepts of the Natural Law without the aid of Revelation (cf Catholic Encyclopedia, article Natural Law, as well as the Catechism of the Council of Trent).

Thus the primary necessity of guiding all sinners to truth is to bring about their conversion to the Catholic Faith. Arguments about the etiology of homosexuality or debates concerning terminology are of academic interest but are secondary.

By all means if some individuals with SSA wish to try therapy as a means to help them with their condition they should be free to do so, but the Roman Catholic Church nowhere
requires this, whatever individuals may say to the contrary. Some fundamentalist groups give a distorted enough presentation of the demands of Christianity as things stand, we needn’t add to this.
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aprilfloyd said:
I have replied to this before, it is correct English to use god as in Greek gods, modern gods, etc. God is used when using it as the name for a specific god - the Christian god
It has always been confusing, the obvious way around it would be to say Catholic God to distinguish from other gods. I use god as I am talking in the noun sense and not the name. Hope that makes sense.🙂
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It is also correct in the Catholic sense to capitalize the word “God” as a sign of respect, and it is also the correct English to do so in a Catholic context.

Since you’re unwilling to do even this small thing for us, I’m afraid I can’t take anything you have to say very seriously, and consider you just another example of anti-religious bigotry.
 
Daddy

**This is not true at all.
The gay people I know have intrinsically known that they were gay since early childhood. **

There is no proof of a gay gene. If there is, cite it.

What these gay people remember is that their first sexual connection was with someone of their sex. Boys naturally play with other boys rather than girls when they can. And then there are all those adult men who like to play with little boys.
 
Lochias
**
Since you’re unwilling to do even this small thing for us, I’m afraid I can’t take anything you have to say very seriously, and consider you just another example of anti-religious bigotry. **

I think I will have to join you in this. It is unfortunate that so many people come to Catholic Answers just to be insulting.
 
Lochias said:
It is also correct in the Catholic sense to capitalize the word “God” as a sign of respect, and it is also the correct English to do so in a Catholic context.

Since you’re unwilling to do even this small thing for us, I’m afraid I can’t take anything you have to say very seriously, and consider you just another example of anti-religious bigotry.
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That’s quite a leap! To go from god to God - and draw from that to what I say is not serious. Wow!
 
There’s a definitely a Christian argument for same-sex marriage.

1.) God likes marriage because it helps spread love, commitment and ties us closer together.

2.) God loves everyone, including homosexuals who were born homosexual just as I was born heterosexual.

3.) Therefore same sex marriage is both morally praiseworthy and logical.

I have not meant to offend anyone with this, it’s just what I believe is the truth.
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
There’s a definitely a Christian argument for same-sex marriage.

1.) God likes marriage because it helps spread love, commitment and ties us closer together.

2.) God loves everyone, including homosexuals who were born homosexual just as I was born heterosexual.

3.) Therefore same sex marriage is both morally praiseworthy and logical.

I have not meant to offend anyone with this, it’s just what I believe is the truth.
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Beliefs need to be rooted in truth.
  1. God ordained marriage to generate and nurture offspring
  2. Homosexual marriage cannot
  3. Therefore homosexual marriage cannot be ordained by God.
 
buffalo said:
Beliefs need to be rooted in truth.
  1. God ordained marriage to generate and nurture offspring
  2. Homosexual marriage cannot
  3. Therefore homosexual marriage cannot be ordained by God.
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That’s why my beliefs are.

1.) God also ordained marriage because of love. Would you call any marriage between a man and woman who don’t have children pointless or not worthy before the eyes of God?

2.) Same-sex marriages are just as loving as straight marriages.

3.) Therefore same sex marriage can also be ordained by God.
 
kingdom

**Therefore same sex marriage can also be ordained by God. **

Can same-sex sodomy also be ordained by God?

Prove it from Scripture, not from what YOU believe.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
kingdom

**Therefore same sex marriage can also be ordained by God. **

Can same-sex sodomy also be ordained by God?

Prove it from Scripture, not from what YOU believe.
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Depends on your definition/what particular thing of sodomy you are talking about.

Since homosexual relations are not ‘sodomy’, they can be ordained by God, as can marriage between same sex couples.
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
Depends on your definition/what particular thing of sodomy you are talking about.

Since homosexual relations are not ‘sodomy’, they can be ordained by God, as can marriage between same sex couples.
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Sodomy is condemned, period. Condemned by our Lord and therefore condemned by The Lord’s Church.

Sexual relations of any kind, between two members of the same sex, are condemned. Period.

What other escapes are you considering? 😉
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Sodomy is condemned, period. Condemned by our Lord and therefore condemned by The Lord’s Church.

Sexual relations of any kind, between two members of the same sex, are condemned. Period.

What other escapes are you considering? 😉
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Please point me to the Bible verse which condemns sexual relations of any kind between two members of the same sex.
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
That’s why my beliefs are.

1.) God also ordained marriage because of love. Would you call any marriage between a man and woman who don’t have children pointless or not worthy before the eyes of God?

2.) Same-sex marriages are just as loving as straight marriages.

3.) Therefore same sex marriage can also be ordained by God.
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Male and female He created them. The love God ordained is male and female complementarity.

This calls for God to redefine marriage. He has not. In fact it has been condemned by Him. Constant Christian teaching has reaffirmed this.

Now one is free to love someone of the same sex in a “brotherly” way but not a marital or sexual way.

Your claim is that any loving relationship can rise to marriage? What are your limits and why?
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
Please point me to the Bible verse which condemns sexual relations of any kind between two members of the same sex.
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Gn 1:27 - complementarity of sexes reflects God’s inner unity
Gn 2:21-24 - transmission of life through total self-donation - one flesh
Gn 19 - original sin deteriorates to Sodom’s sin, destroyed
Lv18:22 - called abomination, cut off from people (v.29)
Lv 20;13 - both shall be put to death for abominable deed
Rom 1;27 - called unnatural, shameful, and a perversity
1Cor 6:9 - active homosexuals won’t inherit kingdom of God
1Tim 1:9-10 - those who engage in such acts called sinners
 
buffalo said:
Male and female He created them. The love God ordained is male and female complementarity.

This calls for God to redefine marriage. He has not. In fact it has been condemned by Him. Constant Christian teaching has reaffirmed this.

Now one is free to love someone of the same sex in a “brotherly” way but not a marital or sexual way.

Your claim is that any loving relationship can rise to marriage? What are your limits and why?
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Yes, at the beginning of time. Things have moved on since then.

It doesn’t call for God to re-define marriage if he intended everyone who loves one another to marry.

Correction-One is free to love someone of the same sex in a brotherly, sexual or marital way.

I don’t claim that any loving relationship can rise to marriage. My point was do you view marriages where a man and a woman are infertile as inferior/pointless to those who can produce offspring?
 
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