“Once Saved Always Saved” #3

[Rightlydivide]

“You have no title”

How about “Lay Catholic JB”? I’m sure if you tried, you guys could come up with some sort of title for me…

I do not enjoy it when I am not the funniest person in the room. But alas…I am not!
You have your title. I also believe you are quite devout (pro-life etc) which I am trying to get someone else to tell me if they are.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Who was talking about John 3:16?But then, you are quite discombobulated at times! Your ignorance stems from posting statements, supplying supportng(???) scripture, and then having people finding out that the scriptures have nothing to do with what you posted For instance, you spoke of Christ’s eternal sacrifice before the Father on our behalf. Then you provide scripture, which does not support your position Hebrews 10:10-14,speaks of Jesus making ONE sacrifice for once and for all! And Acts 9:4-5, does not say that Jesus and the church are one; although we saints know that all of us who are in Christ Jesus are of His church! So, my misguided, often dluded friend, and Christian brother, perhaps you need to REALLY read your Bible before posting “suppositions”!

**John 3:16 **
For God so loved the world that he gave 7 his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

*( 7[16] Gave: as a gift in the incarnation, and also “over to death” in the crucifixion; cf Romans 8:32 - “**He who did not spare his own Son but handed him over for us all, how will he not also give us everything else along with him?”) *

Hebrews 10:10-14
**By this “will,” we have been consecrated through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 5 Every priest stands daily at his ministry, offering frequently those same sacrifices that can never take away sins. But this one offered one sacrifice for sins, and took his seat forever at the right hand of God; 6 now he waits until his enemies are made his footstool. For by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being consecrated. **

( 5* [11-18] Whereas the levitical priesthood offered daily sacrifices that were ineffectual in remitting sin (Hebrews 10:11), Jesus offered a single sacrifice that won him a permanent place at God’s right hand. There he has only to await the final outcome of his work (Hebrews 10:12-13; cf Psalm 110:1). Thus he has brought into being in his own person the new covenant prophesied by Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:33-34) that has rendered meaningless all other offerings for sin (Hebrews 10:14-18 — 6 [13] Until his enemies are made his footstool: Psalm 110:1 is again used; the reference here is to the period of time between the enthronement of Jesus and his second coming. The identity of the enemies is not specified; cf 1 Cor 15:25-27.)*

Acts 9:4-5
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 3

*( *3 He could see nothing: a temporary blindness (Acts 9:18) symbolizing the religious blindness of Saul as persecutor (cf Acts 26:18).

 

[Nicea325]

Who said my interpretations were infallible? I was clowning elvisman about his posts not being supported by the scriptures he used! I attend The Way Fellowship by the way(hey, isnt that what the early church was called, The Way?)

Clowning? You seemed pretty serious to me? My bad,sorry. The Way? That is cool.

 

[elvisman]

I also know some Baptist pastors who went to ACI schools. Some are what you could call “diploma mills” but the ones I have run into have been pretty on the level with the Eastern Baptist in Philly that I went to. I have also known some of these Bible colleges to accept the ACI education towards another degree.
But my question is What in the heck does this line of posts have to do with Once Saved Always saved???

It has nothing to do with the thread.
RightlyDivide has gone off on an tangent because he can’t address the topic.

 

[jlhargus]

No. You did not. The OT canon of Christ was the OT canon we currently use. The early church until around the year 400 AD used the same canon as we do-for the most part. There were a few exceptions to be sure. However, the very earliest lists match our canon.

Can you give your source for that list, who made it and what date it was made?

Man, I have to go back and find that…well you did ask nicely. Let me look and then edit.

509 and 510​

JL: I see no evidence in your post 509/510 that the Church had an official canon before 382AD. Could you provide me with the site from which you have taken your quotes in #509 and #510, I notice you have omitted that. I would like to know the SOURCE and read the entire article. By the way, I’m curious, do you hold to Saturday worship?

 

[1beleevr]

Clowning? You seemed pretty serious to me? My bad,sorry. The Way? That is cool.

Sometimes, I clown people to express my frustration with them posting things, which I don’t believe to be valid! This thing wit the eternal sacrifice of Christ, is something new to me, and those scriptures elvisman used said nothing about sacrifice. So you tell me, am I out of line for challenging him(1 Thess 5:21)?

 

[1beleevr]

**John 3:16 **
For God so loved the world that he gave 7 his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

*( 7[16] Gave: as a gift in the incarnation, and also “over to death” in the crucifixion; cf Romans 8:32 - “**He who did not spare his own Son but handed him over for us all, how will he not also give us everything else along with him?”) *

Hebrews 10:10-14
By this “will,” we have been consecrated through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 5 Every priest stands daily at his ministry, offering frequently those same sacrifices that can never take away sins. But this one offered one sacrifice for sins, and took his seat forever at the right hand of God; 6 now he waits until his enemies are made his footstool. For by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being consecrated.

( 5* [11-18] Whereas the levitical priesthood offered daily sacrifices that were ineffectual in remitting sin (Hebrews 10:11*), Jesus offered a single sacrifice that won him a permanent place at God’s right hand. There he has only to await the final outcome of his work (Hebrews 10:12-13; cf Psalm 110:1). Thus he has brought into being in his own person the new covenant prophesied by Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:33-34) that has rendered meaningless all other offerings for sin (Hebrews 10:14-18 — 6 [13] Until his enemies are made his footstool: Psalm 110:1 is again used; the reference here is to the period of time between the enthronement of Jesus and his second coming. The identity of the enemies is not specified; cf 1 Cor 15:25-27.)

Acts 9:4-5
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 3

*( *3 He could see nothing: a temporary blindness (Acts 9:18) symbolizing the religious blindness of Saul as persecutor (cf Acts 26:18).

If the catholic church believes in celebrating Christ’s eternal sacrifice before the Father(can’t agree with that one), then they would be more in line with Hebrews 10:11

 

[elvisman]

Who was talking about John 3:16?But then, you are quite discombobulated at times! Your ignorance stems from posting statements, supplying supportng(???) scripture, and then having people finding out that the scriptures have nothing to do with what you posted For instance, you spoke of Christ’s eternal sacrifice before the Father on our behalf. Then you provide scripture, which does not support your position Hebrews 10:10-14,speaks of Jesus making ONE sacrifice for once and for all! And Acts 9:4-5, does not say that Jesus and the church are one; although we saints know that all of us who are in Christ Jesus are of His church! So, my misguided, often dluded friend, and Christian brother, perhaps you need to REALLY read your Bible before posting “suppositions”!

**I was merely destroying your (Edited) position **(Edited)about “past tense statements” in the realm of eternity.

**Hebrews 10:10-14 is completely lost on you because you cannot grasp **(Edited) what eternity means.

As for Acts 9:4-5, Jesus identifies his Church with his very self**.**

(Edited)

 

[1beleevr]

I was merely destroying your ridiculous position *(which is never *hard to do) about “past tense statements” in the realm of eternity.

Hebrews 10:10-14 is completely lost on you because you cannot grasp the smallest inkling of what eternity mreans.

As for Acts 9:4-5, Jesus identifies his Church with his very self.

You need to pay attention not only to the responses to your claims - but to your silly statements as well . . .

Actually, I believe you wrote the book on ridiculous positions! And why do you insist on berating people about eternity? None of what we have been discussing has anything to do with eternity! And ther is nothing in scripture that tells us to offer Christ as the eternl sacrifice before the Father! He made One, uno, ein sacrifice, and then sat down at the right hand of God. W-O-W! Even my 9 year old granddaughter understands scripture better than you do! Paul was persecuting Christians, who are part of the Body of Christ! But that does not support your idiotic post! Man, you really take the cake, pal!

 

[elvisman]

If the catholic church believes in celebrating Christ’s eternal sacrifice before the Father(can’t agree with that one), then they would be more in line with Hebrews 10:11

Again - this coming from a person who cannot understand the concept of eternity.

Okay - one last time:
**Jesus’ ONE sacrifice DID take place in OUR time but takes place eternally before the Father on our behalf.

Consider verses 12 & 13:
"But this one offered one sacrifice for sins, and took his seat forever at the right hand of God; now he waits until his enemies are made his footstool."

This is based on Acts 2:35 and Luke 20:43 - which in turn are based on Psalm 110:1, which says:
"The Lord said to my lord, "Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool."
Do you actually believe that Jesus will CEASE to sit at the right hand of the Father AFTER his enemies are made his footstool??
(Edited)

 

[Nicea325]

Actually, I believe you wrote the book on ridiculous positions! And why do you insist on berating people about eternity? None of what we have been discussing has anything to do with eternity! And ther is nothing in scripture that tells us to offer Christ as the eternl sacrifice before the Father! He made One, uno, ein sacrifice, and then sat down at the right hand of God. W-O-W! Even my 9 year old granddaughter understands scripture better than you do! Paul was persecuting Christians, who are part of the Body of Christ! But that does not support your idiotic post! Man, you really take the cake, pal!

Christ made one sacrifice,so what makes you believe the RCC teaches different? And does your 9 year old grandaughter believe Jesus death guaranteed you and everyone salvation? If you do,then you are wrong!

The last supper has no meaning to you? If your church does not connect the dots to the Passover,then they are missing a huge chunk of Christianity,no offense.

 

[elvisman]

Actually, I believe you wrote the book on ridiculous positions! And why do you insist on berating people about eternity? None of what we have been discussing has anything to do with eternity! And ther is nothing in scripture that tells us to offer Christ as the eternl sacrifice before the Father! He made One, uno, ein sacrifice, and then sat down at the right hand of God. W-O-W! Even my 9 year old granddaughter understands scripture better than you do! Paul was persecuting Christians, who are part of the Body of Christ! But that does not support your idiotic post! Man, you really take the cake, pal!

Salvation has nothing to do with eternity?? Is THAT what you’re saying??

First of all - Scripture never tells US to offer Christ as a Sacrifice - he did that FOR us.

Secondly, Revelation is about the Eternal Sacrifice offered by Jesus to the Father on our behalf - ETERNALLY. Eternity is the ONLY type of existence in Heaven, my angry little friend.

2 Pet. 3:8
"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day."

 

[Nicea325]

Salvation has nothing to do with eternity?? Is THAT what you’re saying??

First of all - Scripture never tells US to offer Christ as a Sacrifice - he did that FOR us.

Secondly, Revelation is about the Eternal Sacrifice offered by Jesus to the Father on our behalf - ETERNALLY. Eternity is the ONLY type of existence in Heaven, my angry little friend.

2 Pet. 3:8
"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day."

elvisman,I personally would just end the discussion. It seems to be heading nowhere.

 

[1beleevr]

Again - this coming from a person who cannot understand the concept of eternity.

Okay - one last time:
Jesus’ ONE sacrifice DID take place in OUR time but takes place *eternally *before the Father on our behalf.

Consider verses 12 & 13:
"But this one offered one sacrifice for sins, and took his seat forever at the right hand of God; now he waits until his enemies are made his footstool."

---

This is based on Acts 2:35 and Luke 20:43 - which in turn are based on Psalm 110:1, which says:
"The Lord said to my lord, "Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your fotstool."
Do you actualy believe that Jesus will CEASE to sit at the right hand of the Father AFTER his enemies are made his footstool??
That is patently absurd, my confused friend.

Do your homework before posting next time . . .

You probably don’t believe it, but I love you brother! After a particularly trying day at work, I can come home and read your posts, and smile at your intensity, anger and colors! Jesus’s place of honor IS at the right hand of God! But, He made ONE sacrifice,just ONE!!! You are also quite adept at reding things into people’s posts! I enjoy following a good debate between yourself and some otherposter, who is holding hi/her own against you, and occasionally getting the upper hand! You are not always as astute as you may think, and your posts reflect flaws in quoting scripture! You have still failed to point out any referene to eternal sacrifice, thus leaving us to believe that this your(or your church’s) interpretation! Maybe we can meet in study hall and do our homework together! Hebrews 10:11; doesn’ that explain the eucharist?

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman,I personally would just end the discussion. It seems to be heading nowhere.

That is so catholic of me; to be in discussions that go nowhere!

 

[Padrej]

Thanks. Do you know why Fundamental Baptists consider it to be the only true Bible? I have to translate our assigned verses for my young teen Sunday school class every week- they just can’t understand a lot of the language. I even commit the sin of (big gasp) listing other translations under the KJV so they know what the verse(s) are saying.

I could not answer you as to why Fundamental Baptists as KJV only. I do know that some Baptists use the New King James now. One of the biggies is Charles Stanley. I actually learned the KJV the way you are teaching the class. That is one of the best ways to get the meaning of a passage is to look it up in another translation. Then you have a V8 moment and say, “why did I not think of that.”
I have other reasons that I switched to the KJV that I would PM you if you want to know them. I know that there are a great deal of pastors that are switching for the same reason.
I do wish you the best.

 

[1beleevr]

Salvation has nothing to do with eternity?? Is THAT what you’re saying??

First of all - Scripture never tells US to offer Christ as a Sacrifice - he did that FOR us.

Secondly, Revelation is about the Eternal Sacrifice offered by Jesus to the Father on our behalf - ETERNALLY. Eternity is the ONLY type of existence in Heaven, my angry little friend.

2 Pet. 3:8
"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day."

Are you out of your cotton pickin’ mind? Salvation has everything to do with eternity; without salvation you don’t get eternal life! Now, listen carefully; in one of your earlier posts, you said,"we offer Christ’s eternal sacrifice before the Father, on our behalf, and you offered verses which had nothing to do with sacrifice! And look at the pot callin’ the kettle black, my angrier friend! I know that eternity is the only type of existence in Heaven, and I’m looking forward to it! You made my day, bro’; thanks!

 

[1beleevr]

Christ made one sacrifice,so what makes you believe the RCC teaches different? And does your 9 year old grandaughter believe Jesus death guaranteed you and everyone salvation? If you do,then you are wrong!

The last supper has no meaning to you? If your church does not connect the dots to the Passover,then they are missing a huge chunk of Christianity,no offense.

Here’s what my granddaughter believes: She said,“Grandpa, Jesus died for EVERYONE’S sins; and if they believe in Him, confess that they are a sinner and get baptized, in the name of the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, they have a chance to go to Heaven. If they reject Jesus, they go to the other place!” So, you tell me if she understands the Gospel! The Last Supper probably means more to me than to you! Pleasetell me where it speaks of an eternal sacrifice, or is it something you guys made up?

 

[Padrej]

Here’s what my granddaughter believes: She said,“Grandpa, Jesus died for EVERYONE’S sins; and if they believe in Him, confess that they are a sinner and get baptized, in the name of the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, they have a chance to go to Heaven. If they reject Jesus, they go to the other place!” So, you tell me if she understands the Gospel! The Last Supper probably means more to me than to you! Pleasetell me where it speaks of an eternal sacrifice, or is it something you guys made up?

I like the way your Granddaughter thinks.

To the last supper, Didn’t Jesus say “This IS my Body” and “this IS my blood” and as often we we do communion we are remembering the eternal sacrifice that He did for us. Even Jesus when he was on the cross could look forward in time and see your granddaughter, that is what makes the sacrifice “eternal” it was a one time event with consequences for eternity.

 

[1beleevr]

I like the way your Granddaughter thinks.

To the last supper, Didn’t Jesus say “This IS my Body” and “this IS my blood” and as often we we do communion we are remembering the eternal sacrifice that He did for us. Even Jesus when he was on the cross could look forward in time and see your granddaughter, that is what makes the sacrifice “eternal” it was a one time event with consequences for eternity.

Yes, Jesus did say,"This is My BODY, and this is My BLOOD! And He did command us to ,“as often as you do this, do this in remembrance of Me!” I would rather say that we eternally remember the ONE sacrifice that Jesus made, which was for all time. If you remember, He said,“It is finished!”