“Once Saved Always Saved” ...

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Most Catholics do not understand what it is to be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ although the Scriptures tell us that this is how we are saved.
Those scriptures came from the Cathlolic Church, and they teach this because this is Catholic Teaching. 👍

I agree with you, however, I think that many Catholics do not understand the faith into which they were baptized.
As an ex-cradle Catholic it is clear to see that most Catholics do not have a strong relationship in Christ and therefore do not fully trust him to save them without any works of their own.
One must take care not to judge others by oneself. 😉

This was also my mindset, when I left the Church.
Code:
Scripture is very clear that you cannot do enough to save yourself, but the Catholic church just keeps on teaching that you must work your way.  This is fear, not faith.
Clearly you misunderstand Catholic Teaching. I challenge you to read in the catechism how one is justified before God, and see if you can find any Catholic Teaching that says we can do enough to save ourselves!
 
Its so Funny that People have the Believe of Once save forever Save…I strongly Disagree with that cause I believe being holy and Know God it takes time and It doesn’t just start from a day…It takes time to leave your old sinful habit…Like where i come from almost everyone say they are born again but they live their life contrary to the will of God…So if u just say you give your life to christ today and do sinful things it has good has still being in the world…Please anyone that tells you once saved forever saved is not telling you the truth.

Thanks…I dont know much…But I am just sharing my little knowledge…If u have question you can PM me.
 
Most Catholics do not understand what it is to be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ although the Scriptures tell us that this is how we are saved.
The above statement is known as a cognitive distortion based on unresolved and perhaps even unconscious hostility related to earlier experiences associated with those who were responsible for teaching you the faith. You have not taken any poll that would confirm your statement. Therefore, it is a belief that has no basis in reality.
As an ex-cradle Catholic it is clear to see that most Catholics do not have a strong relationship in Christ and therefore do not fully trust him to save them without any works of their own.
This is another cognitive distortion to support an underlying feeling of unresolved hostility. Please understand that I say this with the deepest respect and it is difficult to convey this through the internet because you cannot see my facial expressions nor hear my tone of voice.
Scripture is very clear that you cannot do enough to save yourself, but the Catholic church just keeps on teaching that you must work your way. This is fear, not faith.
Since I returned after 40 years away from Catholicism I know that our Catholic faith does not teach fear although some may respond with fear to our faith. First and foremost Catholicism teaches salvation through Jesus and the Church He left us to guide us through the mine-field of evil influences that always tempt us to leave our faith. It is love for Jesus and the Gift of Him in the Eucharist that draws me near to Him and keeps me desiring Him even more. I am not here because of fear, I am here because of love for Jesus.
No Pope, no written dogma keeps me here. It is the Truth that is and has been taught for the last 2000 years that Jesus is the Eucharist that keeps me here. I now know this to be true, but only from Jesus Himself did I come to know this.
It is He who continues to save me.
 
I think that Catholics understand this the same way Protestants do. What often differs is how it occurs, and what the effects are. Catholics believe that being born again of water and spirit refers to baptism, which is the normal means by which we are made members of His Body. We also believe that we are infused with His spirit when we are born again and we are a new creation, set free from the Kingdom of darkness,and transferred into the Kingdom of Light.
Since a person must be born again i.e. saved (a person becomes alive in Christ and is transfered from the kingdom of darkness to light etc) what happens to catholics who do not believe in OSAS who commit a moral sin? Are they then unsaved, dead and taken out of the kingdom of light? If so, how does one become “saved” again?
 
Since a person must be born again i.e. saved (a person becomes alive in Christ and is transfered from the kingdom of darkness to light etc) what happens to catholics who do not believe in OSAS who commit a moral sin? Are they then unsaved, dead and taken out of the kingdom of light? If so, how does one become “saved” again?
Sin is the direct opposite of receiving grace from God. Mortal sin deprives us from being totally in God’s grace.

We are not unsaved… or unjustified… or unrighteous because we were at any time fully saved, or fully justified, or fully righteous. Those things are what we strive to attain and strengthen while we are on earth, so that they can be completed in us in Heaven.

Was David “saved”, then “unsaved” after murder and adultry?
Then saved again at his repentence
Or fully saved when suffered the loss of a son?

Was Abraham “saved” when he accepted God’s promise,
and saved again when he was about to sacrifice his son,
and saved again when he offered sacrifice to Melchizedek

Will justasking4 be saved again when the search for Truth leads him to the Catholic Church,
or become unsaved when he realizes what he is being taught is justnotright?

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MrS;4008632]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Since a person must be born again i.e. saved (a person becomes alive in Christ and is transfered from the kingdom of darkness to light etc) what happens to catholics who do not believe in OSAS who commit a moral sin? Are they then unsaved, dead and taken out of the kingdom of light? If so, how does one become “saved” again?
MrS
Sin is the direct opposite of receiving grace from God. Mortal sin deprives us from being totally in God’s grace.
Where in scripture is this taught?
We are not unsaved… or unjustified… or unrighteous because we were at any time fully saved, or fully justified, or fully righteous. Those things are what we strive to attain and strengthen while we are on earth, so that they can be completed in us in Heaven.
If what you say is true then what am to make of Romans 5:1 where it says --Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Paul is saying “we are justified” now. How can a person become more justified?
Was David “saved”, then “unsaved” after murder and adultry?
Then saved again at his repentence
Or fully saved when suffered the loss of a son?
It seems that if the catholic position is correct this is exactly what happened.
Was Abraham “saved” when he accepted God’s promise,
and saved again when he was about to sacrifice his son,
and saved again when he offered sacrifice to Melchizedek
Once you are saved you don’t become “more saved”.
Will justasking4 be saved again when the search for Truth leads him to the Catholic Church,
or become unsaved when he realizes what he is being taught is justnotright?
Being a member of the Catholic church saves no one. Only faith in Christ does that… See I Corinthians 15:1-4 for example.

When a catholic sins does she stop being a child of God and when she goes to confession is she then a child of God again?

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Scripture is very clear that you cannot do enough to save yourself, but the Catholic church just keeps on teaching that you must work your way. This is fear, not faith.

And what is wrong with a little fear?

“And his mercy is on them that **fear **him from generation to generation.” Luke 1:50 (KJV)

Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the **fear **of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Acts 9:31 (KJV)

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the **fear **of God.
2 Cor 7:1 (KJV)

Submitting yourselves one to another in the **fear **of God.
Eph 5:21 (KJV)

Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. **Fear **God. Honour the king.

1 Peter 2:17 (KJV)

And last but not least, Biblical confirmation that we Catholics do it the right way:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:12 (KJV)

Ruthie
 
Scripture is very clear that you cannot do enough to save yourself, but the Catholic church just keeps on teaching that you must work your way. This is fear, not faith.

And what is wrong with a little fear?

“And his mercy is on them that **fear **him from generation to generation.” Luke 1:50 (KJV)

Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the **fear **of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Acts 9:31 (KJV)

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the **fear **of God.
2 Cor 7:1 (KJV)

Submitting yourselves one to another in the **fear **of God.
Eph 5:21 (KJV)

Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. **Fear **God. Honour the king.

1 Peter 2:17 (KJV)

And last but not least, Biblical confirmation that we Catholics do it the right way:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:12 (KJV)

Ruthie
Hello Ruthie,

“what is wrong with a little fear?”

I have been saying that for years. Some of the non-Catholics here, with all of their boasting, seem to diminish God’s awesome and infinite power. You are right, there is nothing wrong with a little fear, fear is a good motivator and it keeps us humble. Anyone who is afraid of failure…failure of disappointing God, might try little harder to please Him and what is wrong with that?

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

It’s in the Bible! (Phil 2:12)

Pope Benedict XVI wrote - “God is Love” and the Protestants seem to ignore Catholic statements like this and for some reason, they miss the fact that there exists a balance in Catholicism.

Great Post! 👍
 
I think that Catholics understand this the same way Protestants do. What often differs is how it occurs, and what the effects are. Catholics believe that being born again of water and spirit refers to baptism, which is the normal means by which we are made members of His Body. We also believe that we are infused with His spirit when we are born again and we are a new creation, set free from the Kingdom of darkness,and transferred into the Kingdom of Light.
To most Protestants, being born again means we ask God to forgive us of our sins, and ask Jesus to come into our lives. Baptism to most is “an outward sign of a visible grace” (to quote the Methodist Book of Disclipine}. It has no salvific meaning whatsoever. When we hear John 3:3 at church service, it usually means an altar call type of an event.
 
To most Protestants, being born again means we ask God to forgive us of our sins, and ask Jesus to come into our lives. Baptism to most is “an outward sign of a visible grace” (to quote the Methodist Book of Disclipine}. It has no salvific meaning whatsoever. When we hear John 3:3 at church service, it usually means an altar call type of an event.
Hello 68ware,

It is once we are Baptized that we become Christian.

How is becoming “born-again” and reciting (verb-action) the “sinners’ prayer, to use your own words, not an “outward sign of Grace”?

Technically speaking, the process of becoming “born-again” is an “act” (verb), so by definition, it is an “act of good works".

This is just more non-Catholic Christian “spin”, or semantics where something Catholic, has been changed slightly, so that it “appears” to be something new, or that people think it is something new and it’s not; it is an attempt to re-invent Christianity. Beliefs, which are non-Catholic, are in error, simple as that…nothing personal.

Protestant non-Catholic beliefs like this are from men (Protestant men) and not from God.

Can’t you see this?

Thank you for you post. 🙂
 
Since a person must be born again i.e. saved (a person becomes alive in Christ and is transfered from the kingdom of darkness to light etc) what happens to catholics who do not believe in OSAS who commit a moral sin?
Anyone who is Catholic will not believe in OSAS. This is a modern innovation that is referred to by the Apostle as a “different gospel”.

I think you are asking about a “mortal” sin, as opposed to a “moral” sin. Mortal sins are those that bring to death the grace infused in the soul by God at baptism. Sin separates us from God. Sin prior to salvatino separates us, and sin afterwards. The nature of sin does not change because we are freed from it. It is possible to enter into slavery again to sin after one has been justified.
Are they then unsaved, dead and taken out of the kingdom of light? If so, how does one become “saved” again?
No, the Apostles teach us that this is an immature understanding of salvation. A mature understanding, which the Catholic Church teaches, is that we enter eternal life at baptism, and we work out our salvation with fear and trembling while we are on earth, and our salvation is completed when we are glorified in heaven.

Since sin separates us from God, as long as we are on earth it is possible to fall away from the grace that saves us. We are restored to a state of grace by the sacrament of reconciliation.
 
Where in scripture is this taught?
Scripture does not “teach” ja4. People teach. Jesus commissioned His apostles to teach, not to write books that would teach apart from their authority.

In the book of Galatians, the Apostle writes about how it is possible, through our own actions and error (falling into sin) to cut oneself off from Christ - fall from Grace. Since there is no salvation apart from Christ, if we cut our selves off from HIs grace, there remains no sacrifice for sin.

Gal 5:4-5
4 You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

He also states clearly here, as he does in other places, that our hope lies ahead, and not behind. We have been made righteous by the blood of Christ, but we can step outside of that righteousness and fail to attain our hope.
If what you say is true then what am to make of Romans 5:1 where it says --Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Paul is saying “we are justified” now. How can a person become more justified?
This is indeed a divine mystery. However, it is clear from the Aposotlic Teaching that there are various levels of justification, and that some are in a greater state of grace than others.
It seems that if the catholic position is correct this is exactly what happened.
It seems this way to those who have been erroneously taught that salvation happens at one point in time, for all time.
Once you are saved you don’t become “more saved”.
I agree. This is why we understand salvation as something that we are working out in the present, and that we can be more or less in a state of grace, depending upon our choices.
Being a member of the Catholic church saves no one. Only faith in Christ does that… See I Corinthians 15:1-4 for example.
You are setting up a dichotomy that does not exist. Jesus identifies Himself completely with the Church, which is His Body. He is not separated from it. If one is a member of Christ, then one is a member of HIs Body, the Church.
When a catholic sins does she stop being a child of God and when she goes to confession is she then a child of God again?
No. Refusal to live according to one’s adopted status does not change the status. This is clear from the parable of the prodigal son. He never stopped being the son of his father. However, if he had not repented, and returned home, he would have died in the pig stye, and never reunited with his father. He would have died a rebellious son, who squandered his birthright.
 
To most Protestants, being born again means we ask God to forgive us of our sins, and ask Jesus to come into our lives. Baptism to most is “an outward sign of a visible grace” (to quote the Methodist Book of Disclipine}. It has no salvific meaning whatsoever. When we hear John 3:3 at church service, it usually means an altar call type of an event.
Yes. It is a mystery to me how such persons can justify the many parts of scripture that show that baptism saves. 🤷
 
Hello 68ware,

It is once we are Baptized that we become Christian.

How is becoming “born-again” and reciting (verb-action) the “sinners’ prayer, to use your own words, not an “outward sign of Grace”?

Technically speaking, the process of becoming “born-again” is an “act” (verb), so by definition, it is an “act of good works".

This is just more non-Catholic Christian “spin”, or semantics where something Catholic, has been changed slightly, so that it “appears” to be something new, or that people think it is something new and it’s not; it is an attempt to re-invent Christianity. Beliefs, which are non-Catholic, are in error, simple as that…nothing personal.

Protestant non-Catholic beliefs like this are from men (Protestant men) and not from God.

Can’t you see this?

Thank you for you post. 🙂
Being born again is not “an act of good works”. Show me that claim from scripture. You must be born of the Holy Spirit; not of yourself or your works.
“Which are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.” (John 1:13)

Here is some scripture for you to work some of that “spin” which you project on others:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, HATH everlasting life, and shall NOT come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

Being born again makes you one of Jesus’ sheep.
The following might apply to those who disagree:

“But ye believed not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I GIVE(present tense) unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall ANY man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:26-28)

I know you have heard these verses time and again, but I guess you are not able to hear or see it.
 
guanophore;4011009]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Are they then unsaved, dead and taken out of the kingdom of light? If so, how does one become “saved” again?
guanophore
No, the Apostles teach us that this is an immature understanding of salvation. A mature understanding, which the Catholic Church teaches, is that we enter eternal life at baptism, and we work out our salvation with fear and trembling while we are on earth, and our salvation is completed when we are glorified in heaven.
Since sin separates us from God, as long as we are on earth it is possible to fall away from the grace that saves us. We are restored to a state of grace by the sacrament of reconciliation.
Is it not true that while a person is in a state of mortal sin he is not a child of God, is dead in his trespasses and sins and has no grace in him?
 
Is it not true that while a person is in a state of mortal sin he is not a child of God, is dead in his trespasses and sins and has no grace in him?
No

We are always children of God. But Baptism makes us more fully His to inheirit the Kingdom of Heaven. Like the prodigal, we can reject that inheiritance … but repent and regain it.

Mortal sin is a rejection … sort of like putting a lid on the container so graces can’t get in. That lid, or obstacle has to be removed… repentance and absolution… for the graces to continue to flow.
 
Being born again is not “an act of good works”. Show me that claim from scripture. You must be born of the Holy Spirit; not of yourself or your works.
“Which are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.” (John 1:13)

Here is some scripture for you to work some of that “spin” which you project on others:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, HATH everlasting life, and shall NOT come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

Being born again makes you one of Jesus’ sheep.
The following might apply to those who disagree:

“But ye believed not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I GIVE(present tense) unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall ANY man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:26-28)

I know you have heard these verses time and again, but I guess you are not able to hear or see it.
I am aware of most of what you have posted here…I was addressing the “born-again”, “sinners prayer”, which is a physical action or an “act”, a man-made Protestant, non-Catholic Christian “act”, invented by a Protestant man within the last hundred years, or so…right?
 
I am aware of most of what you have posted here…I was addressing the “born-again”, “sinners prayer”, which is a physical action or an “act”, a man-made Protestant, non-Catholic Christian “act”, invented by a Protestant man within the last hundred years, or so…right?
It probably goes back to Charles Finney (who was a heretic) and the second “Great Awakening.”
 
It probably goes back to Charles Finney (who was a heretic) and the second “Great Awakening.”
I have never heard a Protestant call Finney a “heretic”. What do you base your charge on? And what do you have against the second “Great Awakening”?
 
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