“When you put on your Jesus glasses, you can’t see the truth”

[Pong]

My kids will encounter a variety of people their entire lives, should teachers also deal drugs, treat students harshly, make racist comments to non-white students? I mean, after all, my kids would be wise to learn how to deal with those sorts of people too.

Is there some other meaning I was supposed to gleam from that remark?

I am in favor of teachers teaching. Not shying away from “taboo” subjects. A 15 year old “honors student” should be bright enough to relize that not everyone agrees with his religion and some people are downright hostile. The article made no mention of the teacher unfairly discriminating against the student individually or grading him unfairly. In an elementary school, remarks such as were made have no place. Children of that age have not yet developed the critical thinking skills necessary to process that situation. High school is different.

 

[rlg94086]

Is there some other meaning I was supposed to gleam from that remark?

You made the very flawed argument that the student would “encounter people like that his entire life” as a justification for the teacher’s poor behavior. I provided a list of poor behaviors where that same flawed argument could be used. Race was only one of them. Why didn’t you say, “I knew someone would this teacher’s comments with treating students harshly…” The actions aren’t equated…the equivalency is in the acceptance of a teacher being a jerk because the student is going “encounter” jerks his entire life.

I am in favor of teachers teaching. Not shying away from “taboo” subjects. A 15 year old “honors student” should be bright enough to relize that not everyone agrees with his religion and some people are downright hostile. The article made no mention of the teacher unfairly discriminating against the student individually or grading him unfairly. In an elementary school, remarks such as were made have no place. Children of that age have not yet developed the critical thinking skills necessary to process that situation. High school is different.

Again, he will enocounter unfair discrimination, unfair assessments at work, etcetera, his enire life. He would be wise to learn to deal with them now.

As far as religion being “debatable.” I look forward to you defending a Christian teacher telling non-Christian students that without Jesus in their lives, they really can’t understand the world correctly and are destined for hell. That would be okay, eh?

I mean, the students are going to encounter that their whole lives, so they learn how to deal with them now.

 

[Pong]

Why didn’t you say, “I knew someone would this teacher’s comments with treating students harshly…”

I didn’t say that because that would not have made any sense. I also am a fan of complete sentences. You attempted to pass of this teacher’s remarks as being as bad a racial slurs or drug dealing which they clearly weren’t.

Again, he will enocounter unfair discrimination, unfair assessments at work, etcetera, his enire life. He would be wise to learn to deal with them now.

Yes. He would. Lest we give student the illusion that the real world works like school. If we don’t teach kids how to deal with problems like this in school, then when, exactly? If this were a situation where the teacher was giving the student a failing grade because of his religion, then the student would do well to call “foul” and use whatever means necessary to fix the problem. That is not the case here.

As far as religion being “debatable.” I look forward to you defending a Christian teacher telling non-Christian students that without Jesus in their lives, they really can’t understand the world correctly and are destined for hell. That would be okay, eh?

Well… wait no more! I shall make your day. In grade school, absolutely not. In high school I have no problem with a teacher voicing that viewpoint. As long as he or she is teaching the prescribed curriculum, I don’t see the problem. I had teachers like that in public school- on both sides of the spectrum. We students learned to decide for ourselves what to make of them.

I mean, the students are going to encounter that their whole lives, so they learn how to deal with them now.

Precisely.

 

[jman507]

Boy, right when I was about going to agree with you about not bashing public schools… Sorry, I don’t think anything and everything should be fair game for a high school teacher. If the teacher does at least let on that this is a challenge for critical thinking, that’s one thing.

If it is true that he is constantly harping on the subject without also trying to prop up a defence of the other side he is abusing his authority. We’ve long heard of problems with bullying by high school students on other high school students. If he’s acting in a fashion of a bully, he should have been stopped long ago.

I am by all means wanting high school students to learn critical thinking skills, but if one is going to bring up a sensative topic, one is going to have to be sensative in the approach. Not everyone is going to take to any approach you want to throw at them even if they are an honors student.

 

[rlg94086]

Boy, right when I was about going to agree with you about not bashing public schools… Sorry, I don’t think anything and everything should be fair game for a high school teacher. If the teacher does at least let on that this is a challenge for critical thinking, that’s one thing.

If it is true that he is constantly harping on the subject without also trying to prop up a defence of the other side he is abusing his authority. We’ve long heard of problems with bullying by high school students on other high school students. If he’s acting in a fashion of a bully, he should have been stopped long ago.

I am by all means wanting high school students to learn critical thinking skills, but if one is going to bring up a sensative topic, one is going to have to be sensative in the approach. Not everyone is going to take to any approach you want to throw at them even if they are an honors student.

My favorite teacher in high school was my US History teacher, he would challenge us by debating various historical topics and honed our critical thinking skills. That is important! However, he did so without resorting to ridiculing any of the student’s religion, race, looks, economic status, etc.

The teacher in this article needs to either lose his job or learn some manners. He should have learned the proper way to engage students from his teachers, but perhaps they were encouraging him by insulting him when he was a student.

 

[rlg94086]

I didn’t say that because that would not have made any sense. I also am a fan of complete sentences. You attempted to pass of this teacher’s remarks as being as bad a racial slurs or drug dealing which they clearly weren’t.

Yes. He would. Lest we give student the illusion that the real world works like school. If we don’t teach kids how to deal with problems like this in school, then when, exactly? If this were a situation where the teacher was giving the student a failing grade because of his religion, then the student would do well to call “foul” and use whatever means necessary to fix the problem. That is not the case here.

Well… wait no more! I shall make your day. In grade school, absolutely not. In high school I have no problem with a teacher voicing that viewpoint. As long as he or she is teaching the prescribed curriculum, I don’t see the problem. I had teachers like that in public school- on both sides of the spectrum. We students learned to decide for ourselves what to make of them.

Precisely.

I hope you are not a teacher then, as I would not want you near any of my kids. There is no evidence that the teacher was being rude and then instructing the kids on how to deal with jerks. That would be a different situation. I expect teachers to be a positive example to the kids. He is teaching them to be jerks. By modeling his behavior, they will have problems in their lives.

 

[deb1]

I
Well… wait no more! I shall make your day. In grade school, absolutely not. In high school I have no problem with a teacher voicing that viewpoint. As long as he or she is teaching the prescribed curriculum, I don’t see the problem. I had teachers like that in public school- on both sides of the spectrum. We students learned to decide for ourselves what to make of them.

Where did you go to high school that you had teachers trying to evangelize you? It has been twenty years since I was in high school but even then teachers did not discuss their religion with us. I remember that our principle died-a well beloved man- and we couldn’t have prayer, only a call to silence at the beginning of the school day.

 

[rlg94086]

Where did you go to high school that you had teachers trying to evangelize you? It has been twenty years since I was in high school but even then teachers did not discuss their religion with us. I remember that our principle died-a well beloved man- and we couldn’t have prayer, only a call to silence at the beginning of the school day.

I had a couple of experiences in school. One junior high school teacher invited me and a friend to his holy roller church. I don’t remember the denomination, but their was no preacher, and they all sat around in a circle. After they sang a hymn, they went through each verse and read the words…interspersed with “Oh Glory!”…“Hallelujah.” It was quite an interesting experience for us two Presbyterian kids. We just looked at each other in bewilderment. EDIT ADD: He also scared a friend of mine who had a seizure in the class room. She came out of it with him over her, apparently trying to exorcize the demons.

The other teacher was a US Government teacher in High School who interjected his beliefs while teaching government…which strangely included studying the mob and communism. He was always telling non-Christians they were going to go to “hell in a handbasket.” And, as a communist-leaning atheist at the time, I had to correct him more than once about Karl Marx and Lenin. I didn’t have a big problem with his interjections…I just thought he was incredibly ignorant.

All I expect is for a teacher to be professional in their job. They are modeling behavior for our kids. If they see a someone using proper manners and acting in a professional way, then they will hopefully learn to act the same when they are adults. Having a rude, obnoxious teacher helps kids think that being rude and obnoxious is completely acceptable.

 

[Pong]

Where did you go to high school that you had teachers trying to evangelize you?

I went to school in a smallish town in the mid-west where such things weren’t (and still aren’t) given a second thought.

There is no evidence that the teacher was being rude and then instructing the kids on how to deal with jerks. That would be a different situation.

Er… he didn’t have to give a structured lesson on “how to deal with people.” I am saying that by this interaction, students should learn how to deal with different types of people; some of whom have very strong opinions contrary to the student’s own.

 

[deb1]

I had a couple of experiences in school. One junior high school teacher invited me and a friend to his holy roller church. I don’t remember the denomination, but their was no preacher, and they all sat around in a circle. After they sang a hymn, they went through each verse and read the words…interspersed with “Oh Glory!”…“Hallelujah.” It was quite an interesting experience for us two Presbyterian kids. We just looked at each other in bewilderment. EDIT ADD: He also scared a friend of mine who had a seizure in the class room. She came out of it with him over her, apparently trying to exorcize the demons.

The other teacher was a US Government teacher in High School who interjected his beliefs while teaching government…which strangely included studying the mob and communism. He was always telling non-Christians they were going to go to “hell in a handbasket.” And, as a communist-leaning atheist at the time, I had to correct him more than once about Karl Marx and Lenin. I didn’t have a big problem with his interjections…I just thought he was incredibly ignorant.

All I expect is for a teacher to be professional in their job. They are modeling behavior for our kids. If they see a someone using proper manners and acting in a professional way, then they will hopefully learn to act the same when they are adults. Having a rude, obnoxious teacher helps kids think that being rude and obnoxious is completely acceptable.

Oh my goodness! My teachers always were careful not to interject religion into their teaching. I thought maybe you were younger then my and I was going to say that times have changed but I noticed that you are a year older. My experiences might have been guided by the fact that I grew up near a large military base, so there were people from many cultures attending my highschool. Perhaps that kept the teachers from being too obnoxioius in expressing overly religious, or anti religious opinions.

 

[rlg94086]

Er… he didn’t have to give a structured lesson on “how to deal with people.” I am saying that by this interaction, students should learn how to deal with different types of people; some of whom have very strong opinions contrary to the student’s own.

Exactly. As I said before, you condone any behavior, no matter how outrageous, because the students will learn to deal with different types of people. I find this absolutely horrendous. It doesn’t necessarily teach the kids how to deal with this sort of person properly. It models the behavior. Some students would believe it was then acceptable to behave that way. If that’s what you believe kids should be taught, then you have a scary educational standard, and the result will be more jerks coming out of school. Gee thanks.

 

[Pong]

Believe whatever you like. I personally consider someone who would label this guy a “jerk” because he disagrees with his politics much more of a “jerk” than the person doing the disagreeing to begin with. But then again, I must be a “jerk” as well because I learned that it’s okay for people to hold disenting viewpoints and there is no need for me to run crying to the authorties because someone hurt my feelings or offended my religious sensibilities.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I left public education as a student a very long time ago. So my familiarity with the current state of education is very limited and, indeed, may not even be relevant as I have heard from others that the status quo has changed so much.

My daughter currently teaches in public school. So I may be a wee bit prejudiced in favor of excellent public school teachers (which she is, and that’s not just my [obviously very biased] opinion.)

Having said that, Jesus is the TRUTH incarnate. When you put your JESUS GLASSES on (whatever they are, I’m just following the OP) you see TRUTH. I haven’t tried, but I suspect Jesus could show me the TRUTH about NUCLEAR PHYSICS. (Which me, in my ignorance, think of as a hard subject. But I’ve never asked HIM.) It would seem that the person who made that comment does not truly understand what “Jesus Glasses” ARE.

Having said that, both religion and atheism (which is simply another form of religion) have no place in the classroom. The teacher in this issue used “Jesus Glasses” as a euphemism for his own anti-religion bias. It’s perhaps a more gentle way of expressing his own rejection of religion than some of those ways used by others.

But it is unfortunate that such teachers, who spout merely their own opinions, and not the subject they are paid to teach, are allowed to continue. Neither religion nor atheism should be taught in the classroom.

 

[jman507]

Believe whatever you like. I personally consider someone who would label this guy a “jerk” because he disagrees with his politics much more of a “jerk” than the person doing the disagreeing to begin with. But then again, I must be a “jerk” as well because I learned that it’s okay for people to hold disenting viewpoints and there is no need for me to run crying to the authorties because someone hurt my feelings or offended my religious sensibilities.

I would never lable the guy a jerk becuase he holds a differing veiwpoint. I would call the guy a jerk for continously acting like a jerk. It can be a hard thing to know exactly what is going on in the classroom, because short little news stories like this tend not to really place things well into context. That is why I say if he is holding a differing veiw point, but not helping cue others to bring forth a differing opinion, and doing it in a way to match a method to something that can help a student, he really isn’t doing a very good job in fostering critical thinking and is acting more like a bully.

 

[rlg94086]

I would never lable the guy a jerk becuase he holds a differing veiwpoint. I would call the guy a jerk for continously acting like a jerk. It can be a hard thing to know exactly what is going on in the classroom, because short little news stories like this tend not to really place things well into context. That is why I say if he is holding a differing veiw point, but not helping cue others to bring forth a differing opinion, and doing it in a way to match a method to something that can help a student, he really isn’t doing a very good job in fostering critical thinking and is acting more like a bully.

aka jerk.

I agree. It has nothing to do with his political viewpoint.

 

[estesbob]

aka jerk.

I agree. It has nothing to do with his political viewpoint.

I thoiught the guy was supposed to be teachng history-not preparing students for dealing with problem people in the real world. ? There is no “critical thinking” involved in dealng with a religious bigot on a day by day basis.

 

[Pong]

I thoiught the guy was supposed to be teachng history-not preparing students for dealing with problem people in the real world. ?

I thought the goal of education, at least as many schools state in their mission statement in some shape or form is to teach the whole person. Besides, one can hardly expect to teach history at that level without broaching controversal issues. I worry about teachers who sugar coat everything.

 

[jman507]

I thought the goal of education, at least as many schools state in their mission statement in some shape or form is to teach the whole person. Besides, one can hardly expect to teach history at that level without broaching controversal issues. I worry about teachers who sugar coat everything.

That sounds like a very good policy to teach and form the whole person. Some tactics used to do that are better than others. Some well intentioned tactics may actually harm. If a number of students feel they are not free to express their opinion, regardless of what the teacher thinks, and feel degraded by the teacher, I don’t really see where that is fostering a learning environment; it sounds more like a hostile environment.

I myself am all for not avoiding controversal issues, and since many topics blend into other subject allowing those topics to come up. I am not one of those who thinks religion and atheism should never be allowed to come up in a public school. I don’t even have a problem objectively with what the teach said. I think though if he isn’t fostering an environment where most students feel he can be challanged if presented to a class, or a single student is able to defend his thought, if presented to a specific person, it is out of order.

It’s one thing not to sugar coat something, it’s a whole different thing to be a jerk and bully about it.

 

[estesbob]

I thought the goal of education, at least as many schools state in their mission statement in some shape or form is to teach the whole person. Besides, one can hardly expect to teach history at that level without broaching controversal issues. I worry about teachers who sugar coat everything.

And I worry about a religious bigot who uses his history class to express his bigotry on a daily basis. And to be honest as an employer I much rather have applicants who had basic reading an writing skills than one where the school neglected these in an attempt to educate the "whole person ". To be honest i dont even know what the 'whole person " means. Sounds like on of those buzz words used to justify letting techers neglect core teachings to wander off in any area their bisases lead them.

 

[Klydewannab]

I am a public school elementary teacher and try very hard not to interject my personal religious beliefs into the classroom. Part of our curriculum is to learn about various holidays and how different cultures may celebrate them. I try very hard to be unbiased. The reason I do this, and I think this applies to high school teachers too, is that I am a person in authority over those children. Because of a child’s personal attitude towards me (good or bad) what I say has a lot of weight.

If this teacher had organized a debate between the students to share their differing religious beliefs, or if he had assigned papers on how various religious beliefs (including atheism) influence society in general and politics in particular, it would have been appropriate and even good. Students would be hearing from other students and it would have been more balanced.