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John_Henry
Guest
I think you will find that belief not to be unique to Catholics.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Sabbath day remains Satuday, but the Lord’s Day is Sunday. This is true.
Catechism of the Catholic Church said:
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John_Henry
Guest
Semper Fi:
Duly noted. Thanks for the quote.
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banjo
Guest
“You say,‘The Lord’s way is not fair!’ Hear now, house of Israel: Is it my way this unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair? When a virtuous man turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies, it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if a wicked man, turning from the wickedness he has committed, does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life; since he has turned away from all the sins which he committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.” Ezekiel 18:25-28
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Church_Militant
Guest
Maybe you should understand what constitutes a mortal sin.
1) Grave matter.
2) Full knowledge that it is a grave sin.
3) Full consent of the will.
Now, let’s take your scenario.
I wake up Sunday afternoon after a really busy weekend of doing whatever and I consciously think to myself.
“It’s Sunday and it’s late. I have enough time to make it to the last mass of the day, but I’m gonna have to hustle to make it…and I really want to sleep a while more.”
But I say to myself, “Aw to hell with it. I know it’s a mortal sin to miss Mass without a good reason, and I have no good reason, but I’ll just go to confession and it’ll be all good.”
Now the problem here already is that I have fulfilled all 3 conditions for a mortal sin. It’s grave, I know it is, and I have just chosen to do it anyway.
Sunday night I hit the night spots and on the way home I get creamed by a drunk driver and buy the whole farm.
My problem was not only the mortal sin but the additional sin of presumption, in that I “presumed” that God would not require my soul of me that very night.
There may well have been (and obviously were) other sins that I carried to judgement with me, but the damning one was that one right there.
Make better sense now? It was all my choice, and anyone who tells you that our choices don’t have consequences is steering you wrong.
Pax tecum,
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Church_Militant
Guest
Gospel According to Saint Matthew: Chapter 20
1 The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle. 4 And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just. 5 And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.
6 But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle? 7 They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard. 8 And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. 9 When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.
11 And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, 12 Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. 13 But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? 14 Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. 15 Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good? 16 So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
It’s not just Catholic it’s New Testament.
Pax tecum,
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PraRFLEsEkHm
Guest
I, too, would have to say ‘Yes it does’, IMO.
Because: even though we don’t know when our souls will be required of us - God does, and, in my experience anyway: whenever I set out to do something I know I shouldn’t, I can feel that tug at my heart telling me: “NO - Do this instead”.
So - it seems reasonable to me to say then: God knows when our time has come, and He will do everything He can - short of forcing us - to do what we need to do to prepare.
For the different scenarios presented, again IMO: We all have sinned. Breaking ONE commandment breaks them all, materially or spiritually because they are in unity. Missing mass violates it’s own commandment, choosing something ahead of that breaks the first as well, which spiritually ‘kills us’ as it is a mortal sin - therefore breaking another commandment, the desire of putting something ahead of God says ‘covetous’ - oops, another commandment, we are, in effect ‘Married’ to Christ in the body…or at least engaged - and so adultery is there as well…another commandment…Honor thy father and Mother … hmmmm … maybe the only thing not represented here is stealing? Or does that come in from the act of taking something that is not our own and using it for our own pleasure … our life? I do have scriptural support for all of that - I’m just too lazy to go and look it all up right now
True - all those are (intellectually) a little stretch…yet - I feel that is how God sees things. Also true - we can get very scrupulous when we ‘go there’ with things like this…at the same time - “keeping it simple” has it’s own dangers, and at the least I would have to say…IMO again…that for me at least…thinking about spiritual matters all the time can lead to a kind of complacency about the issues. The fact that God, in the form of Christ, came down to Earth, took on Human Form for us men and for our salvation, suffered cruelly and was crucified so that we could have eternal life with Him (and for that fact ONLY). Becomes sort of a given: ‘Yeah, he did’ … “But I wanna go and…” you finish the sentence. What more do we require of Him? Also - in the same vein…what did the Saints do? How did they live their lives? In total submission to God…or 50/50?
Just some thinking ‘out loud’…
Peace
John
Because: even though we don’t know when our souls will be required of us - God does, and, in my experience anyway: whenever I set out to do something I know I shouldn’t, I can feel that tug at my heart telling me: “NO - Do this instead”.
So - it seems reasonable to me to say then: God knows when our time has come, and He will do everything He can - short of forcing us - to do what we need to do to prepare.
For the different scenarios presented, again IMO: We all have sinned. Breaking ONE commandment breaks them all, materially or spiritually because they are in unity. Missing mass violates it’s own commandment, choosing something ahead of that breaks the first as well, which spiritually ‘kills us’ as it is a mortal sin - therefore breaking another commandment, the desire of putting something ahead of God says ‘covetous’ - oops, another commandment, we are, in effect ‘Married’ to Christ in the body…or at least engaged - and so adultery is there as well…another commandment…Honor thy father and Mother … hmmmm … maybe the only thing not represented here is stealing? Or does that come in from the act of taking something that is not our own and using it for our own pleasure … our life? I do have scriptural support for all of that - I’m just too lazy to go and look it all up right now
True - all those are (intellectually) a little stretch…yet - I feel that is how God sees things. Also true - we can get very scrupulous when we ‘go there’ with things like this…at the same time - “keeping it simple” has it’s own dangers, and at the least I would have to say…IMO again…that for me at least…thinking about spiritual matters all the time can lead to a kind of complacency about the issues. The fact that God, in the form of Christ, came down to Earth, took on Human Form for us men and for our salvation, suffered cruelly and was crucified so that we could have eternal life with Him (and for that fact ONLY). Becomes sort of a given: ‘Yeah, he did’ … “But I wanna go and…” you finish the sentence. What more do we require of Him? Also - in the same vein…what did the Saints do? How did they live their lives? In total submission to God…or 50/50?
Just some thinking ‘out loud’…
Peace
John
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Fitz
Guest
Also, if one misses mass with no real effort to get to mass it would be considered different than if one wanted to go but somehow timing was off. I am sure many have had this happen. It has happened to me with travel and cancelled flights or delayed flights. I am sure that if one had intended to go to mass that God would know of this intent. I know that confession is still needed, but the gravity is different that if a person knowingly skips to get extra sleep.
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LilyM
Guest
I wouldn’t think you needed to confess if you missed mass because you were prevented from going by a cancelled/delayed flight - you didn’t even have the slightest intention to miss it, and it’s not like they’re running them every 15 minutes for the full 24 hours of Sunday, are they! (Hmmm, there’s an idea …)
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Fitz
Guest
I think you still need to confess it though, but then perhaps I am being scrupulous. The last time it happened a priest told me to go to mass during the week. I would not feel right not to confess it.
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thistle
Guest
If you miss Mass through no fault of your own it is not a sin and there is nothing to confess.
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LilyM
Guest
Exactly, the ‘matter’, so to speak, of the sin is missing mass WITHOUT good and sufficient reason. No matter = no sin.
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batteddy
Guest
And the righteous jews complained that the tax collectors and prostitutes would get to heaven first…
The mystery of salvation, God’s mercy, and our free will is awe inspiring. If the criminal was kept alive by God to repent, it shows that God knew there was still hope for him, and in fact he did repent in your story. But if the father of nine was killed, it meant that even though his sin seems smaller and he seems like a “better person” by human standards, if God let him die like that, it meant there was no hope of future repentence. Somehow, perhaps through presumption, who knows, its just you hypothetical, but the father had ruined his soul. He had committed an offense against the infinitely good God, and apparently after that offense it was time for him to die, meaning he had no hope of repentence. Mortal sin is mortal sin. The important lesson: presume nothing and work out your salvation in trembling and fear, for we are all mortal, and we never know when we our going to die, or when we have so hardened ourselves that letting us die is the MERCIFUL thing to do just so that we wont increase our punishments in hell by more sins.
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Kirane
Guest
Church Militant:
No it doesn’t, because this man had led an entirely good and exemplary life up until the last moment when he just slipped and had the bad luck to die with a mortal sin on his soul, since he wanted to see the sports event, instead of attending Sunday Mass. Just for that one error, he is condemned to eternal hellfire. However, the other person was bad his entire life. He caused nothing but suffering and misery to hundreds of innocent people, young and old, throughout his entire life. It was only one hour before his execution that he repented and confessed his sins because he was sorry since he knew that otherwise he would go to hell. So he gets into heaven eventually. This teaching of Roman Catholicism seems wrong to me because it does not take into account the entire life of the individual.
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thistle
Guest
The teaching of the Catholic Church is the teaching of Christ.
All of us, no matter how good lives we lead, will commit a mortal sin from time to time. However, even if someone dies before they can get to Confession, if they have made an Act of Perfect Contrition they will be saved. Those condemned are unrepentant sinners.
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LilyM
Guest
Kirane - it isn’t just ‘bad luck’ that the man died - he wilfully chose to do something seriously wrong by God’s standards (which you must remember are different to ours, that’s what makes them difficult to follow). AND he was fully aware and unrepentant.
St Paul likens spiritual life to a race - if someone stumbles and crashes out five metres from the start or five metres before the finish, either way they lose. Jesus told the story of the wise and foolish wedding attendants to remind us to be constantly vigilant and said ‘this night your life will (may) be required of you’. It IS our fault if we’re don’t heed his warnings.
And as I said earlier, you don’t know that God doesn’t take the whole life of the individual into account - possibly he does (just like a judge does) when determining the severity of the sentence. A thief is a thief is a thief and everyone who is guilty of theft is punished, but some get lighter or harsher sentences than others.
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ReformedCatholic
Guest
I have a sub-question: is not tithing when you go to the required Mass a mortal sin?
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LilyM
Guest
tithing? you mean giving 10% of your income to the Church?
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ReformedCatholic
Guest
You’re right, it defies rational thinking, really.
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ReformedCatholic
Guest
Yes, but applying the question to giving any amount of money. Would not giving money when the collection plate/basket comes around constitute a mortal sin?
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