1 Mortal Sin = Hell?

[LilyM]

ReformedCatholic:

Yes, but applying the question to giving any amount of money. Would not giving money when the collection plate/basket comes around constitute a mortal sin?

How so?

 

[thistle]

ReformedCatholic:

Yes, but applying the question to giving any amount of money. Would not giving money when the collection plate/basket comes around constitute a mortal sin?

Why would a voluntary donation be a sin of any kind. Even the Protestant churches have collections.

 

[LilyM]

thistle:

Why would a voluntary donation be a sin of any kind. Even the Protestant churches have collections.

And under old Jewish law wasn’t tithing mandatory? Perhaps I’m wrong there …

 

[Lazerlike42]

ReformedCatholic:

You’re right, it defies rational thinking, really.

The reason that people have a problem with mortal sin is because they look at things from the standpoint of God punishing the sinner. That’s not really the best way to look at it, and its not entirely theologically correct either.

To make it really simple, let me explain it this way. God is infinite. Men are not. Men are not compatible with God. For a man to live in the realm of God would be like for a man to live in the ocean - we just aren’t born with what we need to do that. Now man has devised a piece of equipment to let him survive under water - scuba gear. God has also devised a sort of “equipment” to allow man to survive in Heaven - sanctifying grace. When a person is baptized, he is given the sanctifying grace, which is a bit like “God’s scuba gear.” Much like the Protestant understanding of things, God gives us this “scuba gear” totally free based on faith. Through Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven, so He does not take away the gear everytimg we sin. That’s a good thing, because as we go through life we commit little sins all the time.

But the thing is, this divine scuba gear really is pretty bulky, and it takes up all the room there is on the soul. Just like a scuba diver can’t fit a football uniform on over his gear, we can’t fit anything else on over God’s sanctifying grace - His eternal scuba gear. But sometimes in life, some, or most, people see something they want to put on their souls. Maybe it is the overcoat of fornication, or the three piece suit of murder, or even the casual dress of missing Mass on Sunday. When we want to put these things on our soul, we have to take that scuba gear off, first.

That may sound a bit silly, and it sortof is the way I put it. BUt it makes the point. Mortal sins don’t send us to Hell so much because God is punishing us. They send us because commiting them results in us rejecting the sanctifying grace that lets us exist in Heaven. We can’t do them without rejecting that grace. People don’t understand mortal sin because they see it as God rejecting us for one act, whereas what it really is is us rejecting God. As everyone knows, it only takes rejecting God once to reject Him. This is where Catholic theology is soooo much closer to mainline Protestantism without Protestants really realizing it. They say that God gives us justification completely free, regardless of if we sin or not, by the merits of Jesus Christ. The thing is, Catholics say that too, we just recognize that we can still reject God. You can do this by literally saying it, or by doing something that conveys the same meaning. Does a husband have to actually tell his wife he is mad at her, or would, say, punching her do the same thing? Obviously our actions can convey messages. The mortal sin isn’t just in the sin - its in that the sinner is rejecting of God and His offer of salvation. It’s the act of saying, “I want this more than I want God.”

That’s another good way to look at it. Part of the problem is the term salvation. It’s a correct term, but it tends to make us look at things the wrong way by our own faults, not the fault of the word. Even St. Paul used the word, after all. But remember that Jesus didn’t really talk about salvation. He talked about inheriting eternal life, or inheriting the kingdom of God, or attaining eternal life. St. Paul did, too. This is a much better way to talk about things. Salvation carries the notion of a person being rescued from something, in this case sin and hell. This is truely what Christ does, but its more than that. God created us as free creatures. He deeply wants us to come and live with Him, but He won’t force us. He offers us heaven, and we then have to make the choice. That’s what life is all about - making that choice. As we start our Christian life, we are on the ‘yes’ side. This may be a little off color, but its the best thing I can come up with now. When two people are starting to engage in the marital act, the woman may at any time decide she doesn’t want to do it and she may ask to stop, even though she already made the really big choice in the first place. Now some men won’t listen to this, and it becomes rape. God doesn’t do this. If we decide we don’t want to be with Him, even after we’ve made the choice to at first, He stops. He doesn’t force us. He respects us. If we decide, after accepting His invitation, that we’d rather go live somewhere else, He will accept that. That is mortal sin. It is turning down God’s invitation after we have accepted it. The thing is, as we walk away from His house, God is always begging us to come back. “Please,” He says, “come in - I will really make you feel at home!” But He never forces us. If we reaccept His invitation, this is confession. It is all about our choices, not God simply punishing us.

 

[Kirane]

\And as I said earlier, you don’t know that God doesn’t take the whole life of the individual into account - possibly he does (just like a judge does) when determining the severity of the sentence. A thief is a thief is a thief and everyone who is guilty of theft is punished, but some get lighter or harsher sentences than others.

But I thought that hell was fire for all eternity. And if you die with one mortal sin on your soul, according to Roman Catholicism, you will suffer for all eternity, even if you had led a good and decent life up until that last moment. But the other person, who was bad his entire life, but who got to confess his sins at the last moment, will go to heaven eventually, according to Roman Catholicism. And he only has to be sorry for his sins, because he knows he will otherwise go to hell, he does not have to have perfect contrition.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

LilyM:

How so?

In that “not giving” could be interpreted as “turning your back on God” and so forth.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

Lazerlike42:
Thanks, I saw this the first time.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

thistle:

Why would a voluntary donation be a sin of any kind. Even the Protestant churches have collections.

But that’s really the question- is it voluntary? So much else is mandatory. I’m not asking if GIVING the donation is sinful, I’m asking if NOT GIVING/REFUSING TO GIVE the donation is sinful.

 

[LilyM]

ReformedCatholic:

In that “not giving” could be interpreted as “turning your back on God” and so forth.

Absolutely not - the purpose of collection is for maintenance of the Church building and support of the priests of the Parish. It’s not directly giving to God - the giving to God consists in attending Mass in the first place, and the ‘turning your back on God’ on not attending. Collection is an optional extra. Of course anyone who believes in any religion/church will support their efforts as their finances and other resources allow, doesn’t have to be monetary at all.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM:

Absolutely not - the purpose of collection is for maintenance of the Church property and support of the priests of the Parish. It’s not directly giving to God - the giving to God consists in attending Mass in the first place, and the ‘turning your back on God’ on not attending. Collection is an optional extra.

 

[First_of_9]

To get back to the original question:

Yes, it only takes one mortal sin, just as it only takes one bullet to commit physical suicide.

And, that is what a mortal sin is–spiritual suicide. God doesn’t send anyone to hell. We send ourselves. WE pull the trigger ourselves.

 

[hurst]

thistle:

If you miss Mass through no fault of your own it is not a sin and there is nothing to confess.

It is still a venial sin, because it is matter for a mortal sin but did not meet the third condition.

hurst

 

[Kirane]

First of 9:

To get back to the original question:

Yes, it only takes one mortal sin, just as it only takes one bullet to commit physical suicide.
.

that’s why I think it is unfair. A man can lead a good life for eighty years or so, and then slip up at the last moment by not attending a Catholic Mass on Sunday and be condemned for all eternity to hell. But the other man who is bad for his entire life was lucky to have met up with a priest one hour before his execution, and he got to confess the thousands of times he caused horrific and unspeakable pain and hurt to others. And he is only sorry because he knows he will go to hell. So he ends up in heaven with all the angels and Saints.

 

[LilyM]

Kirane:

that’s why I think it is unfair. A man can lead a good life for eighty years or so, and then slip up at the last moment by not attending a Catholic Mass on Sunday and be condemned for all eternity to hell. But the other man who is bad for his entire life was lucky to have met up with a priest one hour before his execution, and he got to confess the thousands of times he caused horrific and unspeakable pain and hurt to others. And he is only sorry because he knows he will go to hell. So he ends up in heaven with all the angels and Saints.

Again Kirane, you’re underestimating the seriousness of every single mortal sin, and the extent to which unrepentant sinners offend God. No mere ‘slip up’ can be a mortal sin - missing mass without good reason is serious for all the reasons I’ve already explained. More importantly it’s serious because God has told us it is.

Likewise you’re underestimating the joy that genuine sorrow (even if it’s not what we call ‘perfect contrition’) for sin and repentance gives to God - remember the bible saying about the shepherd who is happier over finding his one lost sheep than the 99 who didn’t go astray in the first place? And the story of the prodigal son?

 

[hurst]

Kirane:

It seems to me that this is a bit unfair in a way. Let me give you two examples. In the first case, … he does make a confession just before his execution. So according to Catholicism, he is forgiven and will eventually go to heaven to be with the angels and the saints.

Right, theoretically.

Kirane:

Case 2 is the case of a good man, … He knows full well that this would be a mortal sin, … he is killed instantly on being hit by a drunk driver. He then goes to hell, since he has died of one unrepentant mortal sin.

Right, theoretically.

Kirane:

This rule of Roman Catholicism seems unfair as the first criminal gets into heaven.

But he was no longer a criminal because he obediently sought peace with God through His Church.

The other one threw away the value of his whole past life when he deliberately sinned. In fact, even if he had not died, he lost the value of all his past good actions.

The fact is, someone does not even need to have grace or faith in order to act “good” like the second person you mentioned. Any communist spy could imitate it just as well. Should they go to heaven for having done so many “good” things?

Doing marally good actions for all your life do not of themselves make you worthy of heaven. In fact, you risk hell by thinking you don’t need God’s help.

What matters more than your actions is whether you are motivated by charity in your actions. And someone who knowingly commits a sin that cuts them off from the life of grace (if they had it to begin with) seals their own fate even before they die.

Let us fear God and serve Him because, like an ocean, He is immensely powerful and deserves our utmost respect, even as we admire His beauty. The beautiful ocean made of humble drops of water will not hesitate to crush anyone who does not respect its power.

hurst

 

[hurst]

ReformedCatholic:

I have a sub-question: is not tithing when you go to the required Mass a mortal sin?

No. However, everyone is called to contribute somehow to the support of the Church. It just doesn’t have to be during the collection at Mass. Nor does it even have to be monetary. We can volunteer our time etc.

hurst

 

[hurst]

Kirane:

And he is only sorry because he knows he will go to hell. So he ends up in heaven with all the angels and Saints.

The only reason his imperfect contrition worked is because he availed himself of the authority of the Church to forgive his sins. He still has to endure time in purgatory due to his imperfect contrition.

If someone does not have access to a priest, then they must have perfect contrition in order to be saved.

If someone has perfect contrition and also has access to a priest, then he must still go to the priest in order to be forgiven.

hurst

 

[First_of_9]

There are two ways to obtain forgiveness for sin–through perfect or imperfect contrition. The act of contrition gives examples of both

“because I feel the loss of heaven and the pains of hell…” is imperfect contrition.

“but most of all because they offend Thee…” is perfect contrition

Imperfect contrition is sufficient within the sacrament of Penance with absolution from the priest, the intention to sin no more, and perfomance of the penance imposed to receive forgiveness for all sins.

Perfect contrition can result in the forgiveness of a mortal sin without confession, but it is a lot harder You must be sorry for your sin because “it offends Thee.” You must also commit to receiving the Sacrament of Penance as soon as possible.

 

[First_of_9]

I’ve got to learn to type faster.

 

[hurst]

First of 9:

There are two ways to obtain forgiveness for sin–through perfect or imperfect contrition. The act of contrition gives examples of both

“because I feel the loss of heaven and the pains of hell…” is imperfect contrition.

“but most of all because they offend Thee…” is perfect contrition

Imperfect contrition is sufficient within the sacrament of Penance with absolution from the priest, the intention to sin no more, and perfomance of the penance imposed to receive forgiveness for all sins.

Perfect contrition can result in the forgiveness of a mortal sin without confession, but it is a lot harder You must be sorry for your sin because “it offends Thee.” You must also commit to receiving the Sacrament of Penance as soon as possible.

Great answer!

hurst