1 Mortal Sin = Hell?

[Lazerlike42]

Sir Knight:

So if a person KNOWS that the church teaches that it is serious offense to miss mass on Sunday but doesn’t THINK that it is a mortal sin, then it isn’t?

That doesn’t seem right because a person can rationalize and HONESTLY convince themselves that just about anything isn’t a mortal sin.

How do you draw the conclusion that a person can know it is a grave sin but then think it is not a mortal sin?

Maybe this helps. It’s not whether the person thinks something is mortal or not. It’s very simply whether the person knows something is a sin, the something is grave, and the person does it obstinantly anyways.

 

[Kirane]

porthos11:

This is the way God has ordained. And he doesn’t judge you based on your whole life. He judges you based on the state of your soul at the moment of death. That’s simply the way it works.

Some people do not think it works the way you say it does. How do you know with absolute certainty that God judges the precise way that you say so?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Lazerlike42:

How do you draw the conclusion that a person can know it is a grave sin but then think it is not a mortal sin?

Maybe this helps. It’s not whether the person thinks something is mortal or not. It’s very simply whether the person knows something is a sin, the something is grave, and the person does it obstinantly anyways.

Let me put it another way … I tell my sister-in-law that the church teaches that it is a serious matter to miss mass on Sunday without a very good reason. She replies by saying that she doesn’t believe it to be a mortal sin despite what the church says.

If she doesn’t attend mass without a valid reason, has she committed a mortal sin? If the answer is ‘no’, then just about anybody can rationalize that just about anything is not a mortal sin despite church teaching on the matter and not worry about being in a state of mortal sin.

That might explain why so many people go to communion without going to confession – they have rationalized that nothing they do is a mortal sin.

 

[thistle]

Sir Knight:

Let me put it another way … I tell my sister-in-law that the church teaches that it is a serious matter to miss mass on Sunday without a very good reason. She replies by saying that she doesn’t believe it to be a mortal sin despite what the church says.
If she doesn’t attend mass without a valid reason, has she committed a mortal sin? If the answer is ‘no’, then just about anybody can rationalize that just about anything is not a mortal sin despite church teaching on the matter and not worry about being in a state of mortal sin.

That might explain why so many people go to communion without going to confession – they have rationalized that nothing they do is a mortal sin.

In the example you gave, as your sister-in-law knows its the Church teaching (and you reminded her) she would be committing a mortal sin by missing Mass deliberately. She might even be committing a further mortal sin by deliberately rejecting a Church teaching.

 

[porthos11]

Kirane:

Some people do not think it works the way you say it does. How do you know with absolute certainty that God judges the precise way that you say so?

Because the Church says so, and the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If this doesn’t suit you, then there’s nothing more to say.

 

[LilyM]

Kirane:

Some people do not think it works the way you say it does. How do you know with absolute certainty that God judges the precise way that you say so?

Let me put it this way - if I choose to think that not going to Mass might just possibly be a mortal sin if the Church says it is, and I act on that belief and faithfully rock up to Church every Sunday what have I lost? Nothing except a chance to watch a football game (c’mon, very few people are genuinely going to spend that Sunday morning hour helping starving orphans anyway, most are just going to have a lie in)

What have I gained? Wonderful graces from frequent attendance at mass and reception of the Eucharist. The fact that I may doubt the necessity of going to mass doesn’t take value away from the going, in fact it adds to its value to do a good thing in spite of my doubts.

If I take every fifteen minutes of life and consciously live it, not in fear but in preparation for life’s end, and do as well as I can in the belief that every fifteen minutes of my life matters to my salvation, then again, I have lost nothing, and I have gained a wonderful spur to holiness.

I believe God grants rewards in proportion to the effort we’ve put into trying to please him, so if the Church sets a higher-than-necessary standard it is not going to upset me at all.

 

[Giver]

cocot:

Wasn’t it Peter himself who denied Christ three times? Talk about someone who had a “personal relationship with Jesus”.

OK, so truly 1 mortal sin can send you to Hell, but I would say the person must have a hardened heart and not be repentant.
I don’t think the guy missing mass fits that.

From a lot of the posts here I take it that everyone must be walking around in a state of grace. Truly we all are sinners and because of our tendency towards sin we sin again even after confession. I know I do, but even after committing a mortal sin who can say that afterwards they are not sorry? So, I would speculate that dying in such a state would not warrant Hell.

As a parent would you punish a child who 99% of the time is good the same as a child who always misbehaves? This mercy shown by the parent to the child is symbolic of the relationship of us to God the Father.

Yes Peter denied Jesus three times, and he was a man who had a very personal relationship with Jesus. What is so sad is you, along with so many others, fail to see the significances of what Jesus was teaching us, with Peter’s failure.

Before Pentecost and before Peter was indwelled with the Holy Spirit, he didn’t have the grace to live his word. Only with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit can we walk in the Word of God.

 

[Giver]

Giver:
Yes Peter denied Jesus three times, and he was a man who had a very personal relationship with Jesus. What is so sad is you, along with so many others, fail to see the significances of what Jesus was teaching us, with Peter’s failure.

Before Pentecost and before Peter was indwelled with the Holy Spirit, he didn’t have the grace to live his word. Only with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit can we walk in the Word of God.

 

[Eden]

Giver:

Only with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit can we walk in the Word of God.

Did the Holy Spirit give you the gift of infallibility on matters of faith and morals, Giver?

Or are you capable of making errors when you, for instance, read and interpret the Bible?

By extension, in the 362 posts you made here about faith and morals have you made any errors?

 

[Giver]

Eden:

Did the Holy Spirit give you the gift of infallibility on matters of faith and morals, Giver?

Or are you capable of making errors when you, for instance, read and interpret the Bible?

By extension, in the 362 posts you made here about faith and morals have you made any errors?

 

[Giver]

Eden:

Did the Holy Spirit give you the gift of infallibility on matters of faith and morals, Giver?

Or are you capable of making errors when you, for instance, read and interpret the Bible?

By extension, in the 362 posts you made here about faith and morals have you made any errors?

No matter what I would say, you would not believe, so why don’t you ask Jesus, and have him explain if I’m right or wrong.

 

[Eden]

Giver:

No matter what I would say, you would not believe, so why don’t you ask Jesus, and have him explain if I’m right or wrong.

No, I’m not asking about whether you are right or wrong.

Please do not evade the question. I’m specifically asking whether or not you have been given the gift of infallibility from the Holy Spirit. It’s a yes or no answer.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit protects you from making errors when you speak on matters of faith and morals or not?

And I may as well ask also, if you wrote down all that you have been told by Christ, should your words be considered “inspired” in the same way that we can trust the Bible is the Word of God?

 

[Giver]

Eden:

No, I’m not asking about whether you are right or wrong.

Please do not evade the question. I’m specifically asking whether or not you have been given the gift of infallibility from the Holy Spirit. It’s a yes or no answer.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit protects you from making errors when you speak on matters of faith and morals or not?

And I may as well ask also, if you wrote down all that you have been told by Christ, should your words be considered “inspired” in the same way that we can trust the Bible is the Word of God?

My understanding is no one is infallible, other wise the Holy Spirit would not have told me to tell everyone that no matter who tells them anything about God they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong. Jesus also told me he didn’t make perfect people, but he chose to use us anyway.

Now I’m sure you are going to tell me the church is infallible and quote me what ever you bind etc. If you have submitted to the Church then their laws pertain to you. Just as the Jews were subject to the laws of Moses, but Jesus pointed out in may places where their law was wrong. Jesus exempted those who followed him from the law. You know he did it then and he is doing that now.

 

[Eden]

Giver:

My understanding is no one is infallible

So, you do not consider yourself infallible. Good. I just wanted to make sure you realize that you are not infallible and that you are capable of making errors when telling us what Jesus says.

 

[banjo]

Sir Knight:

Let me put it another way … I tell my sister-in-law that the church teaches that it is a serious matter to miss mass on Sunday without a very good reason. She replies by saying that she doesn’t believe it to be a mortal sin despite what the church says.

If she doesn’t attend mass without a valid reason, has she committed a mortal sin? If the answer is ‘no’, then just about anybody can rationalize that just about anything is not a mortal sin despite church teaching on the matter and not worry about being in a state of mortal sin.

That might explain why so many people go to communion without going to confession – they have rationalized that nothing they do is a mortal sin.

We all have the obligation to *inform *our conscience. So, if you told someone the Church considers missing Mass without good cause is a grave sin they should exercise their obligation to inform their conscience.

 

[banjo]

Lazerlike42:

No. Grave sin refers to the gravity - how bad it is. Mortal sin requires:

1. Grave Matter
2. Full Knowledge
3. Full Consent of the Will

This sin would be mortal if all three conditions were met. So, if a person knowingly and deliberately did not participate while making that choice with full use of the will that would be a mortal sin.
QUOTE]

Thanx,

This has been my understanding too.

 

[deekod1967]

Is it possible to die in mortal sin but then repent before reaching hell?

Or does the repentance always have to happen when you are alive?

What does the Church teach on this?

 

[LilyM]

deekod1967:

Is it possible to die in mortal sin but then repent before reaching hell?

Or does the repentance always have to happen when you are alive?

What does the Church teach on this?

The church doesn’t teach that you can repent after death. In any event I wouldn’t go around relying on being able to do so even if the Church did teach it.

 

[cocot]

Giver:

Yes Peter denied Jesus three times, and he was a man who had a very personal relationship with Jesus. What is so sad is you, along with so many others, fail to see the significances of what Jesus was teaching us, with Peter’s failure.

Before Pentecost and before Peter was indwelled with the Holy Spirit, he didn’t have the grace to live his word. Only with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit can we walk in the Word of God.

But Peter recognized the Christ before he was indwelled with the Holy Spirit. That wasn’t a valid recognition? So the denial was meaningless? So after Pentecost Peter was sinless? Since you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit are you then sinless?
Personally I am indwelled with the Holy Spirit but, alas! I am a great sinner.

 

[porthos11]

Giver:

My understanding is no one is infallible, other wise the Holy Spirit would not have told me to tell everyone that no matter who tells them anything about God they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong. Jesus also told me he didn’t make perfect people, but he chose to use us anyway.

Now I’m sure you are going to tell me the church is infallible and quote me what ever you bind etc. If you have submitted to the Church then their laws pertain to you. Just as the Jews were subject to the laws of Moses, but Jesus pointed out in may places where their law was wrong. Jesus exempted those who followed him from the law. You know he did it then and he is doing that now.

Giver, unless you have something concrete to contribute to the topic at hand rather than just repeating the same hash you do elsewhere on the forum, please stay out of this thread.