10 commandments vs Bible

[exnihilo]

Anyways, here’s a thought. When he says “You shall not make for yourself an idol”, could that be interpreted to mean “You can make for God, if he commands it, an idol”?. Which might explain why he had idols and likenesses made, because God can’t lie, nor scripture contradict scripture

That wouldn’t be interpreting it. That would be injecting some idea into it that isn’t there at all. Why would God command people to make a false object of worship? This would violate the command to have no other gods before God. Also, none of the things God commanded be made were idols.
They weren’t idols because they weren’t worshipped. The Golden Calf was an idol, but God didn’t command that to be made.

 

[GML3]

Thanks for your reply. I have given much thought starting with what you said and came to this question.

What determines a false god to be a false god?

I know you guys will kill me on this one, but I am asking seriously. I have seen my uncle kneel down in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary and pray to her. Is he in violation of the first commandment in that moment? Now, I know she is not a false god, but I stand by my question.

He said something like "Thank you for all you have done for me, and to help me with(I don’t remember what he said).

 

[Joe_5859]

I know you guys will kill me on this one, but I am asking seriously. I have seen my uncle kneel down in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary and pray to her. Is he in violation of the first commandment in that moment? Now, I know she is not a false god, but I stand by my question.

I’ll save my pitchfork for later.

Sometimes it can look similar externally, but praying to a saint is not the same thing as worshipping them as a god.

Kneeling is a posture of reverence, respect, and humility; it’s not only used for worship. I got on my knee when I proposed to my wife, but I wasn’t worshipping her.

Similarly, thanking Mary (or one of the saints) and asking them for help is not an act of worship. Just because we might ask for help from them to obtain a particular gift or grace, we know that the origin of that gift or grace is God, not the saint.

I think this is where much of the confusion enters in. People see the externals and think it means something it doesn’t. If you asked your uncle if he was worshipping Mary or if he thought she was a goddess, I’m sure he would tell you no.

 

[Chris4]

The Catholics keep the ten commandments. It might also be helpful to meditate prayerfully on Christ’s version given in Mathew 19: 16-30, Mark 10: 17-21, Luke 18: 18-30

 

[MT1926]

I know you guys will kill me on this one, but I am asking seriously. I have seen my uncle kneel down in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary and pray to her. Is he in violation of the first commandment in that moment? Now, I know she is not a false god, but I stand by my question.

He said something like "Thank you for all you have done for me, and to help me with(I don’t remember what he said).

No question is stupid as long as it is asked in charity and kindness.

You worded your question perfectly, you didn’t make assumptions about your uncle or accuse him of worshiping Mary. That is charity and kindness. I applaud you.

One thing to keep in mind is Catholics tend to have a different definition of worship than non-Catholics. What I mean by that is we recognize that it is possible to worship God with prayer and praise and song, but at the same time we realize that not all prayer and praise and song is worship.

The reason for this is we believe the greatest form of worship to God has always been sacrifice. We don’t believe this form of worship stopped after Jesus died for our sins. We believe that Jesus gave us a perfect sacrifice, himself in the Eucharist, to offer to God everyday. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy foretold in.

Malachi 1:11
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Here we are told that the Gentiles (that’s us, I’m Italian not Jewish) will be able to offer a pure offering (the only pure offering ever offered to God was Jesus, which we now have in the Eucharist) to God every hour of everyday throughout the world. The Catholic Church offers this Eucharistic sacrifice (the greatest form of worship) to God every hour of everyday and fulfills this prophecy.

So when you take this reasoning into account it’s not hard to see why we Catholics don’t give kneeling in front of a statue a second thought, in fear that we might be accidentally worshiping the statue.

Hope this helps,

Keep the questions coming.

God Bless

 

[BoomerangToo]

I know you guys will kill me on this one, but I am asking seriously. I have seen my uncle kneel down in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary and pray to her. Is he in violation of the first commandment in that moment? Now, I know she is not a false god, but I stand by my question.

Kneeling is an old-world sign of profound respect for a superior. Catholicism is an old-world church. You can’t always compare straight across between an old-world culture and new world culture. They aren’t the same.

Prince Charles and his mother:

Queen Sofia and the Shah of Iran:

Abyssinians prostrating before Haile Selassie:

King Albert II before Pope Benedict XVI:

The Lord High Chancellor at the opening of Parliament:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[exnihilo]

I know you guys will kill me on this one, but I am asking seriously. I have seen my uncle kneel down in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary and pray to her. Is he in violation of the first commandment in that moment? Now, I know she is not a false god, but I stand by my question.

He said something like "Thank you for all you have done for me, and to help me with(I don’t remember what he said).

We don’t know about your uncle. None of us knows. It is possible he thinks the Virgin Mary is god, but if so he isn’t following Catholic teaching. Nothing in his behavior or words indicate he thinks this, so we have no reason to believe it. It’s just like we have no reason to believe a man who gets down on one knee to propose thinks his girlfriend is a god.

Kneeling doesn’t mean worship. Asking for intercession doesn’t mean worship. Giving thanks doesn’t mean worship. More correctly none of these things mean worship in the sense of worship due to God alone. Worship in its original sense means to give something its worth.

A question I’d have for you is, how do you worship God? What is worship? You first have to answer those questions before you can ask if what others are doing is worship. Having a feeling that you don’t like something isn’t enough of a reason to say someone is worshiping a statue.

 

[GML3]

1. I worship God by knowing all things are because of him. I pray(thanks and praise) to God and God alone because his son Jesus(who is also God) died for my sins. I also remember his greatest commandment, the promise of everlasting life, if I love Him with my whole heart, and love my neighbor. I will fail in this, but my sins are forgiven.
2. In Question 1, I explained how I worship God. I hope that it also could answer the second question.

Is this an acceptable prayer to Mary?

May the Virgin Mary help us to open the doors of our hearts to Christ, Redeemer of man and of history; may she teach us to be humble, because God looks upon the lowly; may she enable us to grow in understanding the value of prayer, of inner silence, of listening to God’s Word; may she spur us to seek God’s will deeply and sincerely, even when this upsets our plans; may she encourage us while we wait for the Lord, sharing our time and energies with those in need.
Mother of God, Virgin of expectation, grant that the God-who-comes will find us ready to receive the abundance of his mercy.
May Mary Most Holy, “Woman of the Eucharist” and Virgin of Advent, prepare us all to joyfully welcome Christ’s coming and to celebrate worthily his sacramental presence in the mystery of the Eucharist.

 

[Joe_5859]

Is this an acceptable prayer to Mary?

Looks good to me. Looks like it’s from an address by John Paul II from November 28, 1999.

From a Catholic perspective, we distinguish between “worship” and “pray”. Pray really just means “to ask”. As in, pray thee tell me how the weather is doing. We also distinguish between the adoration owed to God alone and the veneration of Mary and the saints. They are not at odds with each other but rather complement each other.

 

[GML3]

It uses the words, May the Virgin Mary help us, may she teach us, may she enable us, may she spur us, prepare us. Can she do these things?

 

[porthos11]

It uses the words, May the Virgin Mary help us, may she teach us, may she enable us, may she spur us, prepare us. Can she do these things?

Absolutely, and she doesn’t have to be God to do these things.

She teaches us by her example in the Scriptures.
She enables us, spurs us, and prepares us, all through her intercession.

Ultimately, it’s still God who does these things.

If a I come across a guy drowning, and I can’t swim, so I call out to a lifeguard, who in turn sees the guy precisely because of my calling his attention, swims out and saves the guy. The question is, who saved the guy’s life?

 

[Reuben_J]

It uses the words, May the Virgin Mary help us, may she teach us, may she enable us, may she spur us, prepare us. Can she do these things?

I read your idea about worship in your post.

As for this post, I think your question is basically - is it alright to ask the saint to intercede for us?

How we ask (them) then can be semantic.

If you agree to the question, then what we do in asking the saints to intercede makes more sense but it has to follow from the belief that they can intercede for us.

It would be more problematic if you do not believe the saints can.

Thanks for wording your questions nicely. No worries, we appreciate them.

 

[GML3]

Okay, thank you. There is a saying for people are trying to find words for a prayer “It doesn’t matter what you say, the power lies in the one who sees your heart”.

I truly believe there are some Catholics who actually believe Mary and the Saints actually, right now, are in control of something. The fault lies with Church for encouraging this practice, while at the same time not teaching forcefully that Mary and the Saints are relaying their prayers of help to God.

 

[Reuben_J]

Okay, thank you. There is a saying for people are trying to find words for a prayer “It doesn’t matter what you say, the power lies in the one who sees your heart”.

I truly believe there are some Catholics who actually believe Mary and the Saints actually, right now, are in control of something. The fault lies with Church for encouraging this practice, while at the same time not teaching forcefully that Mary and the Saints are relaying their prayers of help to God.

Fair enough. What you refer to is probably a devotion, a spirituality that involves a deep committment to certain type of prayer, which enhances their spiritual growth. Yes, it may be true that sometimes people can go overboard with it, where the line of veneration and worship can vaguely merge. If it happens, usually the clergy or spiritual director would advice them that the practice it is not right.

However, asking for saints’ intercession is an accepted Catholic spirituality, which perhaps the majority would use as part of their prayers.

Non-Catholics should know, if they have not known already, that these are just types of prayers, which is not obligatory on anyone, meaning they do not have to pray it if they do not want to.

I am not much of a devotionist. My preferred type of prayer is contemplative and reflection, using the word of God as springboard to do it.

 

[jason2]

thank you.

 

[jason2]

I guess this is my question too. From 3 feet away, it looks like many Catholics worship Mary, statues of Mary, or other statues or saints. But I get what you are saying.

 

[jason2]

that is a good explanation. thank you.

 

[Kei]

If you open a Catholic Bible it’s there in full, but the thing is, there’s more than 10 imperatives so you group them under different forms of ten. We put the graven image under no other God, and do not include women as the same as possessions, and split those two.

Catholics do not worship anyone but God.

 

[pnewton]

Put another way, I don’t think anyone could read the bible and end up with the Catholic Church.

I did. More to the point, I read it in two different translations, the NKJV and NASB, along with all sort of passages in the NIV, KJV and TEV. I even went to a Baptist University and seminary. It is amazing what God does with us sometimes. Surprise and shock are the norm for those who seek the face of Jesus, not the exception. My best to you wherever your journey takes you.

 

[MT1926]

I truly believe there are some Catholics who actually believe Mary and the Saints actually, right now, are in control of something. The fault lies with Church for encouraging this practice, while at the same time not teaching forcefully that Mary and the Saints are relaying their prayers of help to God.

Hold onto your hat @GML3 I am one of those believing Catholics.

Now that the cats out of the bag let’s see if I can help you out with why I believe this.

It’s good you are on board that Mary and the Saints are able to relay our prayers to God. That is a huge step. Now to understand how Mary and the saints can be “in control” of something we need a few Bible verses.

1 Corinthians 12…
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ…14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body…20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body…25 that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

We are all members of the ONE body of Christ. Verse 25 tells us that he members are to care for one another.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Death does not separate us from the love of Christ.

After we die we are still members of the Body of Christ. Once we are in heaven we will still be following the command in 1 Corinthians to care for one another.

Ephesians 3:20
20 Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think,

Now here is the key. I’m sure you would agree that the good works we do here on earth on not of our own doing. They are great because of the power of the Holy Spirit at work within us. He gets the credit not us.

Well it’s the same way in heaven. Mary and the Saints are in control of something, but not of their own doing, but because they are members of the One Body and have that power within them.

St. Paul gives us the perfect analogy. We are the parts of the Body, say the hand, and Jesus is the head, the brain. If I take a pin (my prayer) and poke you (the hand) the prayer get’s sent up to the brain (God) who instantaneously sends a signal back down to the hand telling it to pull away from the pin. At this point the hand is “in control” of pulling away from the pin. So yes the hand did the “work” however, in the end all the glory goes to God.

Hope this helps,

God Bless