10 commandments vs Bible

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Catholic Bibles contain the same Ten Commandments as other Bibles. Exodus 20:4 and the similar command in Deuteronomy 5:8 are found in Catholic Bibles just like in other Bibles.

So, your question really should be, “Why, when Catholics summarize the Ten Commandments, do they not usually include the words of Exodus 20:4?” The answer is that Catholics do not regard Exodus 20:3 and Exodus 20:4 as two unrelated Commandments but rather they regard Exodus 20:3-6 as one Commandment; they regard Exodus 20:4 as a dependent clause of the main clause, Exodus 20:3. So, when Catholics summarize the Ten Commandments for catechetical purposes, they usually just include the main clause and omit the dependent clauses.

In light of Exodus 20:4, how do Catholics justify having religious statues of angels and saints, such as the Virgin Mary? Because Catholics consider Exodus 20:4 to be a dependent clause of Exodus 20:3, they believe Exodus 20:3 sets a specific context for Exodus 20:4. In other words, they understand the prohibitions against making of images found in Exodus 20:4 to only apply to images of other gods and, since Catholics do not regard angels and saints in heaven (who are now like angels) as other gods but rather as fellow creatures, Catholics feel justified in making images of angels and other saints in heaven, in much the same way the ancient Jews were justified in having images of angels throughout their temple.
 
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Rather, keep searching! Find in the bible where Jesus intended the faith to be passed on by reading anything. He did not.

Where did He found His Church (the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3:15) on the bible? He did not.

He fulfilled scripture, of course! But He founded His Church on Apostles. Matthew 16:18, 18:18 He gave them all authority “He who hears you hears Me” Luke 10:16, plus Acts 15.

Catholic beliefs are 100% consistent with the bible - but here’s the rub: you cannot read the bible and understand all that Jesus taught and all that the Apostles handed on - it’s just not in there! John 20, John 21

He gave that ability to the Apostles, not to every average Joe. Luke 24:45

As well, the bible itself says that scripture is twisted by certain men. 2 Peter 3:16

First, do not blind yourself with man’s doctrine of ‘bible alone’! Jesus NEVER taught that. Paul teaches that even heavenly authorities will know revelation through Christ’s Church, NOT the bible! Ephesians 3:10

1,500 years later, European men - who do not save you - invented bible alone. “Do not follow them” Luke 17:23

Talk about pretzel logic: 30,000 denominations all from the same bible are proof that bible alone is not Christ’s doctrine.

We love the scriptures, but they are NOT the sole foundation or sole rule! Christ never taught that. Please ponder this, as you have been terribly mislead.

You must trace Church history back before the “reformation” or Christ’s Church may never make sense to you.
 
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The 10 commandments are in Exodus 20: 1-17. Moses never gave us a numbering system, all we know is these 17 verses make up 10 commands.

The numbering of the 10 commandments is based on oral tradition.

The oral tradition of the Jewish 10 commandments actually considered verse 2 the first commandment. They also had verses 3 - 5 as the second commandment. Jews also considered woman to be property so their 10th commandment considered coveting ones wife to be on the same level as coveting ones animals or house.

If you study the early Catholic Church you will see that they elevated the rights and status of the wife. They do this to follow the commandment of our Lord.
Matthew 19: 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
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So when the Church set an order to the 10 commandments they combined verses 2-5 into one commandment. All of these verses are about God. If you make a graven image (v4) and worship it (v5) you basically just had another god before God (v3) which means you just denied that the Lord is God (v2). No matter which one of those verse you defile it is the same sin.

However, because Jesus elevated the status of a wife above that of an animal or property… If I decide to take your Harley for a ride it is not on the same level of sin as me deciding to take you wife for a ride.

Now the tradition of the numbering of the ten commandments you follow comes from John Calvin. He renumbered the 10 commandments 1500 years after the death of Christ. Calvin did this to bring emphasis on the graven images and people bought it. Not realizing, that by doing this he contradicted the word of God and made Him a liar.

If the emphasis on this commandment is “graven images” then God broke this commandment when He commands Moses to make them in Exodus 25:18-20.

Hope this helps,

God Bless
 
I’ve always found the whole idols thing one of the more easily disproven misconceptions about Catholics. I mean. Ask literally any Catholic whether Catholics worship Mary and the saints or worship statues of them and the response is either going to be a very puzzled expression or them laughing in astonishment. No Catholic worships statues. And yet for some strange reason, this silly myth persists in the mind of many non-Catholics.
 
jason2 said:
I am wondering why the Catholic 10 Commandments seem to go out of their way to exclude Exodus 20:4. This seems to be quite important to God based on how frequently it is brought up in the Old Testament. Can anyone explain this to me?
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Please post what you consider to be the Catholic 10 Commandments.
 
The 10 Commandments as listed in Exodus 20 contain 14 “do” or “do not” statements:
  1. “You shall have no other gods before me.”
  2. “You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;”
  3. “You shall not bow down to them or serve them.”
  4. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.”
  5. “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
  6. “Six days you shall labor, and do all your work.”
  7. “In it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates.”
  8. “Honor your father and your mother.”
  9. “You shall not kill.”
  10. “You shall not commit adultery.”
  11. “You shall not steal.”
  12. “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
  13. "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house.
  14. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”
Which ones should we exclude?
 
How do you know the right column is the biblical one and not the Catholic order?
 
because the right column is not the Catholic order, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church
 
True. But the Bible doesn’t say which ones should get put under each number, does it? Why can’t we number them our way if the Bible doesn’t say how to number them?
 
It would have been easier for all of us if they were numbered 1-10. So when the Catholic Church had to number them they put the “do not have other gods” with the “do not make idols”, and split up the “do not covet your neighbors house” from the “do not covet neighbors wife”. Wow, that is a long sentence, sorry, but I am not a good writer. Anyways, back to topic. Not to diminish the neighbors wife, but the ninth and tenth Catholic commandments all relate to what is important to the “neighbor”. His house, wife, slaves, ox or donkey, anything that belongs to him. Fairly straight forward. And it is all just one verse Exodus 20:17. The “do not make idols” commandment is 3 verses long, Exodus 20:4-6. It is very confusing, with many different aspects to it, which is why I think it should be by itself.

Thank your for discussing this with me.
 
GML3 said:
So when the Catholic Church had to number them they put the “do not have other gods” with the “do not make idols”,
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I’m not sure if you saw my post above but this statement is actually incorrect. These two commands together were considered to be number 2 before the Catholic added the first Jewish commandant …
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.” (Exodus 20:2)

To them and made them all number one.

John Calvin 1500 years later pulled apart the commands in question to bring more emphasis to idols to get people to belive Catholic’s worshipped statues.
GML3 said:
His house, wife, slaves, ox or donkey, anything that belongs to him. Fairly straight forward
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I dare you to go home and tell your wife she is your property. I’m pretty sure you won’t be looking “fairly straight forward” anymore.

Kidding aside, that’s why the church split this verse into two commands. Because wives were no longer considered the property of the husband.

Check out my post above, hope it helps.

God bless
 
Myths and stereotypes such as this die hard. There are innumerable ones regarding Jews and Judaism as well.
 
Thank you, it does make more sense when you explain it. Does it sound any better when it is said, or anything that belongs to him?

Anyways, here’s a thought. When he says “You shall not make for yourself an idol”, could that be interpreted to mean “You can make for God, if he commands it, an idol”?. Which might explain why he had idols and likenesses made, because God can’t lie, nor scripture contradict scripture
 
GML3 said:
Not to diminish the neighbors wife, but the ninth and tenth Catholic commandments all relate to what is important to the “neighbor”. His house, wife, slaves, ox or donkey, anything that belongs to him.
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Something to think about: putting wife in the same sentence as ox and donkey, and other gods and idols.

An IQ test, which sentence has similar items and which has not?

Comparing the two sentences, separating the wife from the ox and donkey, probably due to their different categories theologically.

While ox, donkey, and cars are properties, wife is more of a relationship and a sacrament component. Coveting a wife or for that matter, husband, is more than just coveting your neighbour Rolls-Royce.

Then of course you can say, isn’t coveting the wife covered in the sixth Commandment, thou shalt not commit adultery?

What do you think?

Perhaps it is more on the emphasis - thus how to categorise the many imperatives into ten. Not that we want to leave them out but how to categorise them as different topics into ten.

About the other gods and idols. The question would be - is it wrong to make a statue? Or it is wrong to make a statue to be worshiped?
 
  1. In Catholic bibles, the Commandments are exactly the same as in Protestant bibles. Go to Bible Gateway or any other site and see for yourself.
  2. The prohibition of “graven images” refers to images of FALSE GODS, and only false gods. It is not, and never has been, a flat-out prohibition of all images of every single living thing. It only prohibits false gods.
This is the correct interpretation, and is how the Jews understood it. Statues of Mary, Jesus and saints are not false gods. They are not “false” and they are not “gods”. They are real genuine people, like George Washington or anyone else you would make a statue of.

If God despised every image of everything, He would not have commanded Moses to make this:


Or this:

And Jews would never have made their synagogues look like this:







And Solomon’s Temple would not look like this:

And the exterior of the Temple would not have looked like this:

But fortunately, The Almighty never made a blanket prohibition of all images, but only images of false gods.
 
Brittany said:
You thought wrong, as I’m one example of such people.

Of course, I didn’t just read the Bible and take my own interpretations - that’d be absolutely absurd to do. After all, we live in a totally different time with totally different historical contexts than the authors of the Bible lived! It’d be ludicrous to take our own interpretation and assume, without any further research, that we are right. I had help from reading the early Church Fathers (who were, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Catholic).
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That makes two of us. Sorry, jason2, you’re wrong about this as well.
 
I suppose adultery also could mean if a wife sleeps with an unmarried man, but doesn’t covet her, or maybe he doesn’t know she is married. Then coveting the wife is separated from thou shall not commit adultery.

I suppose you could make statues, as long as they are strictly ornamental, not commemorative or to bow down or serve in any way. I think I will do my best to avoid making statues or carven images. And not just for the reason of doing my best to follow the commandment or because of my lack of understanding of it, but also because I have no artistic ability.

Thanks for your help
 
angel12 said:
That makes two of us. Sorry, jason2, you’re wrong about this as well.
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Three of us. One thing I’m absolutely certain of is that the Catholic Faith makes the most straightforward sense out of the most of Holy Scripture. What I mean is the Bible reads easier with Catholic theology. Any Protestant theology I’ve encountered has far more problems than just difficult to understand passages. They have to dismiss straightforward statements by Jesus or the Epsitle writers.
 
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