15-Feb-08 - Alaskan Diocese to Enter Bankruptcy [via EWTN]

[Nohome]

Passed on, actually, for the bishop.

The civil system isn’t about justice, it’s become about getting rich.

Actually it is very much about justice. Why else would there be both compensatory and punitive damages? A gentleman recently sued the Westboro Baptist Church for protesting at a military funeral. The result was damages way higher than the church could ever pay. Will this man get rich? No. He might even be stuck with legal fee debt, but he got justice.

Forcing a diocese into bankruptcy doesn’t make anyone rich. It does, however, punish the diocese and that may be what these victims need. Sure parishioners will suffer, but that is the fault of the diocese.

As to a Bishop that has passed on, I sure hope he had time to reflect upon his sins before death. As others have said, that is not for me to judge.

Nohome

 

[Wolseley]

(sigh)

Okay, here’s what we do:

We take every Christian in the country who was not involved in any kind of sex scandal, and we place them safely offshore in large boats.

Then, we kill every Christian still left on land.

Then, we sink all the boats.

And that should just about solve that problem, won’t it? The world will finally be free. I’m sure the atheists will do ever so much better, superior as they are.

 

[m134e5]

The perverts stole the lives of the victims and the Bishop stole their only hope for justice. I hope the Church is broke for a very long time and suffers horribly.

The priests who did this should pay everything they have to the victims, and spend the rest of their lives in jail, but the bishops and chancery staff who covered up the abuse are dead now. Their punishment is a just one, and they received it before the people who were abused spoke out about it.

It is not just to steal from the Church- to make people pay for things that happened 50 years ago, when they had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Aramis]

The priests who did this should pay everything they have to the victims, and spend the rest of their lives in jail, but the bishops and chancery staff who covered up the abuse are dead now. Their punishment is a just one, and they received it before the people who were abused spoke out about it.

It is not just to steal from the Church- to make people pay for things that happened 50 years ago, when they had absolutely nothing to do with it.

The other thing is that these people are suing over events for which the statues say are beyond the time-frame. They CAN NOT sue the priests, since the statute of limitations timeframe has expired. (The recent paternity case is an exception.)

What they can do is sue over the conspiracy to hide the original events. A conspiracy is essentially immune to the statute of limitations.

So it truly isn’t about justice, and anyone who has dealt with the Alaska or Fairbanks courts realizes that there is no justice in Fairbanks. It is, in many ways, judges allowing lawsuits that should not have been allowed.

It is vengeance, pure and simple, and vengeance is NOT justice.

 

[m134e5]

Actually it is very much about justice. Why else would there be both compensatory and punitive damages? A gentleman recently sued the Westboro Baptist Church for protesting at a military funeral. The result was damages way higher than the church could ever pay. Will this man get rich? No. He might even be stuck with legal fee debt, but he got justice.

Forcing a diocese into bankruptcy doesn’t make anyone rich. It does, however, punish the diocese and that may be what these victims need. Sure parishioners will suffer, but that is the fault of the diocese.

As to a Bishop that has passed on, I sure hope he had time to reflect upon his sins before death. As others have said, that is not for me to judge.

Nohome

The members of Westboro Baptist Church (which I am very glad to hear was sued) who committed these crimes are still alive, and are still causing trouble- that’s a different situation.

Why punish the diocese? What wrong has the diocese done? Neither the bishop of this diocese, nor the Archbishop who consecrated him (or the co-consecrator bishops, for that matter) were even ordained to the priesthood when this happened. They were just kids- or teenagers, at the oldest. They had **nothing **to do with it. I’m sure there are some priests of the diocese who are still alive who were priests at that time, and if they took part in these horrible crimes, they should be punished. Making the diocese pay for all these abuse settlements is unfair to the clergy and to the faithful of the diocese- those who honestly try to serve God and the Church. If the victims asked the diocese to pay for their bills to see psychologists/counselors, and to give reasonable compensation for missed work to deal with these issues, I could understand it. There comes a point, however, when you just have to admit to yourself that others did you wrong, there’s no way to justify it, that they’ll get what they deserve in the end, but you can’t change the past.

 

[Nohome]

What wrong has the diocese done?

They allowed a bishop to conceal the evil done by pervert priests. Now it is pay back time. Your opinon matters not, it is now up to the courts. If you don’t like this, find another country.

The Diocese will pay, this pleases me.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

The other thing is that these people are suing over events for which the statues say are beyond the time-frame. They CAN NOT sue the priests, since the statute of limitations timeframe has expired. (The recent paternity case is an exception.)

We are talking Alaska here, right? You know, the state that has NO time limit for child sex abuse cases.

Sec. 09.10.065. Commencement of actions for acts constituting sexual offenses.

(a) A person may bring an action at any time for conduct that would have, at the time the conduct occurred, violated provisions of any of the following offenses:

(1) felony sexual abuse of a minor;

(2) felony sexual assault; or

(3) unlawful exploitation of a minor.

smith-lawfirm.com/sol_Alaska.htm

Nohome

 

[Aramis]

We are talking Alaska here, right? You know, the state that has NO time limit for child sex abuse cases.

smith-lawfirm.com/sol_Alaska.htm

Nohome

Most of these would not have been felonies at the time… only violent rapes would have been, or individuals under the age of 16 (which was the age of general sexual consent in Alaska until 1990 or so).

But it definitely is time to get it changed back… time to write to Juneau…

 

[Nohome]

Most of these would not have been felonies at the time… only violent rapes would have been, or individuals under the age of 16 (which was the age of general sexual consent in Alaska until 1990 or so).

But it definitely is time to get it changed back… time to write to Juneau…

All cases would clearly be exploitation of a minor as 18 is the age of majority. Too late to write Juneau, this Diocese is going down!

Besides, sex abuse is a hot topic. Most states are loosening limitation requirements, not tightening.

I think a better plan of action would be not to cover up for pervert priests. Next time one is busted, hand him over to the police.

Nohome

 

[drafdog]

My son was sexually molested by the church organist/Catholic school principal/minor league soccer coach/block parent…
I made certain that he 1) lost his teaching credentials, 2) lost his job, 3) went to jail, 4) was tried for other similar crimes predating his abuse of my son, 5) no longer works with Scouts or children’s sports. The Catholic school board allowed him to resign although it had evidence that he had abused children from schools where he had taught. Thus he is allowed to collect his pension which is unjust as it allows him to benefit from criminal behavior.
I should have sued so that I would have had the financial wherewithal to pay for long term counseling for my son. After twenty plus years he is finally getting beyond the anger. I have long since forgiven the man but I will not allow him anywhere near me or my family. This is not revenge or lack of forgiveness. It is prudence. One cannot trust him and I won’t.
If the bishops are finally being made to face the consequences of their actions (or inactions), then good on them.
Again you see the problem of giving jobs to people who are not qualified for them. The business of running a diocese is like any other business and should be handled by paid professionals. The training for priests contains nothing in the way of business or human resource management. Nor are candidates for bishop required to have training in these areas. Behold the results.
Properly trained and credentialed laymen should be in charge of the day to day running of parishes and dioceses rather than amateurs. The bishop is to be the principle teacher of the faith. Let him stick to what he is trained to do.

Matthew

 

[Nohome]

I should have sued so that I would have had the financial wherewithal to pay for long term counseling for my son. After twenty plus years he is finally getting beyond the anger.

I hope those here that think legal action is about getting rich read and reread this post. Their anger is misdirected, all parishioners that suffer should focus on the priests and bishops that did this. The victims should be held harmless.

Rather than whine about your diocese being dragged through the mud, thank these victims for holding your diocese accountable. In the long run, they are doing you a favor. The next victim could be your child.

Nohome

 

[abcd]

I think much good will come of this. The Church will rebound stronger than she was.

Nohome

NOHOME, Your seminaries will have to cleaned up first before this could happen. Many of them are full of gay’s and some are even run by gays and gays have first choice of entering. Read a book by a Catholic author with the title of a “Few Good Men”

 

[Aramis]

All cases would clearly be exploitation of a minor as 18 is the age of majority. Too late to write Juneau, this Diocese is going down!

Besides, sex abuse is a hot topic. Most states are loosening limitation requirements, not tightening.

I think a better plan of action would be not to cover up for pervert priests. Next time one is busted, hand him over to the police.

Nohome

No, the age of consent was (since territorial times) 16.
Also, you clearly have NO CONCEPT of what bankruptcy of a non-profit does: it essentially forces non-essential liquid assets to be sold off and distributed to the persons owed, then dismisses the remaining debt outright. (been through it with a non-religious 501c3 corporation.)

Also, the diocese doesn’t own the parish buildings. The diocese will go on just fine, but won’t be building any new buildings.

There have been no credible (to the police) reports of sex abuse by priests in the fairbanks diocese in YEARS.

The last priest accused was turned over to the police, and let go due to lack of evidence.

 

[Nohome]

No, the age of consent was (since territorial times) 16.

Doesn’t matter, it is still unlawful exploitation. Sex has nothing to do with the definition.

Also, you clearly have NO CONCEPT of what bankruptcy of a non-profit does: it essentially forces non-essential liquid assets to be sold off and distributed to the persons owed, then dismisses the remaining debt outright. (been through it with a non-religious 501c3 corporation.)

You do understand than they filed under Chapter 11?

Also, the diocese doesn’t own the parish buildings. The diocese will go on just fine, but won’t be building any new buildings.

And they will be reminded daily that they harbored perverts. But what do you care?

Nohome

 

[PeterK]

It’s a well established principle of US law that the employer must answer for the actions of the employee within the course of his employment.

I realize this isn’t apples to apples but are any states being sued because of teachers molesting students?

Peter

 

[Nohome]

I realize this isn’t apples to apples but are any states being sued because of teachers molesting students?

Peter

Yes. There are numerous examples of local school disricts, state and county hospitals and municiple nursing home being sued (succesfully) for sex abuse.

Nohome

 

[m134e5]

They allowed a bishop to conceal the evil done by pervert priests. Now it is pay back time. Your opinon matters not, it is now up to the courts. If you don’t like this, find another country.

The Diocese will pay, this pleases me.

Nohome

The people who caused the problem are dead. If there are any still alive, they should pay for it. A diocese is not a person, it is an organization. The people in charge now were just kids when all this was going on- they had absolutely nothing to do with it. There may be some old priests who need to be punished for their actions, but the diocese is not the same diocese it was 50 years ago. Those who make dioceses pay for abuses that happened so many years ago are only stealing from the Church.

 

[Nohome]

The people who caused the problem are dead. If there are any still alive, they should pay for it. A diocese is not a person, it is an organization. The people in charge now were just kids when all this was going on- they had absolutely nothing to do with it. There may be some old priests who need to be punished for their actions, but the diocese is not the same diocese it was 50 years ago. Those who make dioceses pay for abuses that happened so many years ago are only stealing from the Church.

Organizations can and are held liable for the actions of their representatives, dead or alive.

Let’s suppose I’m a pilot for American Airlines. I screw up and crash a plane and you are on board. I’m killed, but you are just seriously injured. Can American Airlines reject your claim for damages? Can they just wash their hands because the responsible party is dead? Certainly not. The organization will be held liable for the actions of those now deceased.

The victims are not stealing. The Church is liable, plain and simple. The fact that those who caused the damage are dead is a moot point. You don’t like this, but this is the way things go.

By the way, some of these cases are from the late '80s. More like 20 years ago. Not that it matters, the Diocese is just a liable for the incidents back in the '50s.

Nohome

 

[abcd]

The people who caused the problem are dead. If there are any still alive, they should pay for it. A diocese is not a person, it is an organization. The people in charge now were just kids when all this was going on- they had absolutely nothing to do with it. There may be some old priests who need to be punished for their actions, but the diocese is not the same diocese it was 50 years ago. Those who make dioceses pay for abuses that happened so many years ago are only stealing from the Church.

What makes you think the same old abuse is not happening today as always? Its a fact your semiaries are full of aspiring gay priest that will soon be out in the parish to do their dirty work.

 

[st_lucy]

What makes you think the same old abuse is not happening today as always? Its a fact your semiaries are full of aspiring gay priest that will soon be out in the parish to do their dirty work.

Where so you get your facts from? How man seminaries have you been too. I am not saying that there are no gays in the seminaries but I highly doubt that they are full of gays. Also were is it written that those who suffer from SSA are going to turn out to be pedophiles? And Pope B16 has banned gays from entering the seminaries.

Your statements are rather sweeping and boarder on the accusatory side,