19 Kids and Counting

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Does anyone else see the name, “Jinger” and pronounce it as if it rhymes with “Zinger” instead of “Ginger”?🤓 :doh2:?
 
Sophie_Lawrence said:
Does anyone else see the name, “Jinger” and pronounce it as if it rhymes with “Zinger” instead of “Ginger”?🤓 :doh2:?
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Jinger is pronounced the same way as Ginger.

I remember Michelle Duggar pronouncing it that way.
 
Sophie_Lawrence said:
Does anyone else see the name, “Jinger” and pronounce it as if it rhymes with “Zinger” instead of “Ginger”?🤓 :doh2:?
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Yeah, I sometimes do. Years ago when I first heard of the family I read an article and it listed the names of the children and I read the name Jinger and thought, “Jing-er! Who would name their kid Jing-er?” I don’t know when I figured out that it was pronounced like Ginger but I still pronounce it as *Jing-er because there are plenty of “J” names to use so there is no reason for the Duggars to mutilate the spelling of a perfectly good name.

*Unless it’s in the context of “Free Jinger”; then I pronounce it the “right” way.
 
I don’t have cable but watched a bit once on Netflix.

I found the mother’s voice impossible (read: really annoying) to listen to and could not keep watching.
 
KCT said:
I don’t have cable but watched a bit once on Netflix.

I found the mother’s voice impossible (read: really annoying) to listen to and could not keep watching.
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Lol, she often uses a baby voice when speaking. I vaugely recall her talking about snapping when she had 5 or 8 kids, that is when she really got into the Pearls’ To Train up a Child. Chore packs, blanket training, buddy system. It almost sounds like she is on valume.
When I start feeling really impatient with my kids I revert to this extra calm voice in order to get myself together.
 
petitfleur said:
Lol, she often uses a baby voice when speaking. I vaugely recall her talking about snapping when she had 5 or 8 kids, that is when she really got into the Pearls’ To Train up a Child. Chore packs, blanket training, buddy system. It almost sounds like she is on valume.
When I start feeling really impatient with my kids I revert to this extra calm voice in order to get myself together.
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She does get the little one’s attention, though, when they’re misbehaving and she gets down on their level and admonishes them. I actually find it interesting how they respond to her method. It’s much more effective than raising your voice (which I’m very bad at).

That said, I have no clue what she does off camera that may contribute to their response. But I do have an aunt who has the same type of voice and she would use a similar method with her small children and they always seemed to be very well behaved and I KNOW she never spanked them or anything like that.
 
masondoggy said:
She does get the little one’s attention, though, when they’re misbehaving and she gets down on their level and admonishes them. I actually find it interesting how they respond to her method. It’s much more effective than raising your voice (which I’m very bad at).

That said, I have no clue what she does off camera that may contribute to their response. But I do have an aunt who has the same type of voice and she would use a similar method with her small children and they always seemed to be very well behaved and I KNOW she never spanked them or anything like that.
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Agree, it’s a better way to handle little ones. There is a nurse practitioner at my pediatricion’s office who has a very odd way of talking to babies. I was irritated at first but honestly babies adore her. I think of her as a real life baby whisperer.
I felt bad posting about her voice tbh. I vehemently disagree with so much of her beliefs but the voice speaks with is not something relavant to any of it.
 
Okay, so despite my attempts to be charitable and fair to the Duggars, I must say, I recently watched the “Jessa’s Engagement” episode and it was an odd experience, I so wanted to take it at face value as a sweet romantic show, but I couldn’t, too many “huh?” moments, such as:
  1. Michelle’s explanation that “their father owns their hearts” as the reason why Ben had to ask for Jim Bob’s blessing to propose to Jessa. This was, quite honestly, creepier than if she’d come out and said that “we believe the father has authority over his daughters and the right to determine who is acceptable as a husband”. It was almost quasi-incestuous, I remember also being creeped out by an earlier episode when she stated her daughters kept their hair long because “their father likes it that way”.
  2. Jim Bob talking about “giving my daughter away”, which he’d also done in many of the Jill/Derek episodes, the way he fixates on this concept, really made it apparent for me that he really DOES see his daughters as possessions to be given away (and yet, oddly I do think he loves them in his own way, but is it the same way most men love their daughters? Or is it more the way some men love their pets?)
  3. The whole chaperone business, though I must say part of it is because obviously, the many cameramen filming everything certainly would serve as a deterrent to hanky-panky even for sinful secular people anyway. Way more than Jinger sitting in the very back pew of the church Ben proposed in. (I mean, I doubt Ben and Jessa would have done anything actually sexual in that situation even without cameras, but I can see Jinger discreetly overlooking a kiss if they had decided to indulge in one off-camera.)
  4. I was thrown off a bit when Jessa referred to “our first date”, wasn’t the word DATE a completely taboo word in courtship circles?
Perhaps the dichotomy is how the show really seems to be presenting the relationship as very close to a normal dating one, just without sexual aspects, and I can understand why the show producers would wish to go this route, yet they didn’t quite manage to sell that to me.

All this is rather ironic, since it seems Jill/Derek was much closer to an arranged marriage in how Derek contacted Jim Bob first and it was JB who introduced him to Jill, and their courtship was much shorter, yet I hold out more hope for their marriage than Jessa/Ben who (at least from the TV clips) seem to have had a more conventional relationship.

Also, am I the only one who seriously doubted whether Ben really thought up all these aspects of the scavenger hunt by himself? Maybe I’m being cynical, but really, a kid who doesn’t even know how to wrap a present? But that’s more about my general skepticism when it comes to “reality” TV.
 
Come on and give me a side hug!

I think that the whole father owns her heart is creepy. Interesting in these families how the relationship focus is often daughter and father. My girls don’t need anybody’s permission to marry. I hope I like him and he is a good person but we don’t own them.
 
petitfleur said:
Come on and give me a side hug!

I think that the whole father owns her heart is creepy. Interesting in these families how the relationship focus is often daughter and father. My girls don’t need anybody’s permission to marry. I hope I like him and he is a good person but we don’t own them.
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LOL about the “side hug” business. Or even “hand-holding”. Their focus on the externals really does strike me as misguided; because even on the Jessa engagement episode, there’s a scene in which she and Ben hold hands (before engagement) when the whole company holds hands to say grace over the meal, and people freak out over it, then begrudgingly decide that’s okay, even though the hand-holding was obviously in a fellowship, not a romantic context.

This is not to say I am ridiculing people who wish to be chaste. However, I do think it is going way too far to essentially state that a courting couple actually has LESS leeway to express physical affection than NON-courting couples do. I’m also reminded of the misguided modesty that actually leads to women foregoing medical care in some countries because they believe only a man related to them, or a husband, is allowed to touch them.

Anyway, to me some of what I see on the show is disturbing precisely BECAUSE I do think Michelle and Jim Bob do love their children. I don’t think any of the Duggar daughters are at risk of being sold off to a man decades older than they are just so Jim Bob can get a better land deal, as happens in many “traditional” cultures where “arranged marriages” are still practiced. Or that Jim Bob would ever think of “honor killing” his daughters out of shame if one of them were the victim of sexual assault.

In such families, I really get the sense that the men involved don’t really love their daughters. I do think Jim Bob does love his daughters, though. Which makes his attitude toward them even more disturbing to me.
 
petitfleur said:
Agree, it’s a better way to handle little ones. There is a nurse practitioner at my pediatricion’s office who has a very odd way of talking to babies. I was irritated at first but honestly babies adore her. I think of her as a real life baby whisperer.
I felt bad posting about her voice tbh. I vehemently disagree with so much of her beliefs but the voice speaks with is not something relavant to any of it.
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oh I understand what you mean and and that you’re not saying it to be mean or anything like that. I think that her voice rubs a lot of people wrong.
However, I think the thing about her voice isn’t so much that it’s the way she talks, there IS something off about it as if it’s a result of Jim Bob & Michelle’s brainwashing in the movement that they belong to. And they HAVE been brainwashed. Jim Bob seriously reminds me sometimes of one of those men that belong to the fundamentalist mormon sect.

If you notice, Anna talks to her kids the same exact way. I think it’s part of their sect’s training.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
Okay, so despite my attempts to be charitable and fair to the Duggars, I must say, I recently watched the “Jessa’s Engagement” episode and it was an odd experience, I so wanted to take it at face value as a sweet romantic show, but I couldn’t, too many “huh?” moments, such as:
  1. Michelle’s explanation that “their father owns their hearts” as the reason why Ben had to ask for Jim Bob’s blessing to propose to Jessa. This was, quite honestly, creepier than if she’d come out and said that “we believe the father has authority over his daughters and the right to determine who is acceptable as a husband”. It was almost quasi-incestuous, I remember also being creeped out by an earlier episode when she stated her daughters kept their hair long because “their father likes it that way”.
  2. Jim Bob talking about “giving my daughter away”, which he’d also done in many of the Jill/Derek episodes, the way he fixates on this concept, really made it apparent for me that he really DOES see his daughters as possessions to be given away (and yet, oddly I do think he loves them in his own way, but is it the same way most men love their daughters? Or is it more the way some men love their pets?)
  3. The whole chaperone business, though I must say part of it is because obviously, the many cameramen filming everything certainly would serve as a deterrent to hanky-panky even for sinful secular people anyway. Way more than Jinger sitting in the very back pew of the church Ben proposed in. (I mean, I doubt Ben and Jessa would have done anything actually sexual in that situation even without cameras, but I can see Jinger discreetly overlooking a kiss if they had decided to indulge in one off-camera.)
  4. I was thrown off a bit when Jessa referred to “our first date”, wasn’t the word DATE a completely taboo word in courtship circles?
Perhaps the dichotomy is how the show really seems to be presenting the relationship as very close to a normal dating one, just without sexual aspects, and I can understand why the show producers would wish to go this route, yet they didn’t quite manage to sell that to me.

All this is rather ironic, since it seems Jill/Derek was much closer to an arranged marriage in how Derek contacted Jim Bob first and it was JB who introduced him to Jill, and their courtship was much shorter, yet I hold out more hope for their marriage than Jessa/Ben who (at least from the TV clips) seem to have had a more conventional relationship.

Also, am I the only one who seriously doubted whether Ben really thought up all these aspects of the scavenger hunt by himself? Maybe I’m being cynical, but really, a kid who doesn’t even know how to wrap a present? But that’s more about my general skepticism when it comes to “reality” TV.
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I have never really been critical of the Duggars and actually I used to defend them. Although I don’t agree with everything they do, I have always felt that they were doing a great job raising their kids how they choose to do that is their business as long as there’s no abuse going on. But I DO have concerns now over the creepy control Jim Bob and Michelle, especially Jim bob, have over their adult children. I think it has reached the level of abuse in the form of mind control. I understand that adult children should respect their parents and look to them for direction, but the way that they control them is wrong and DOES remind me of the way cults control their members. These kids have been raised this way and don’t know any different and that is the same way that cults control their adult members. I mean, from the way it sounds, their grown adult children are not even allowed to leave the house and head to the store alone. They have to go with a partner. They can’t even get a job unless a sibling is getting one with them (notice the girls that studies midwifery/doula did it together). That is just outright WRONG and it’s all about control.

Their courtship rules are good and reasonable for a minor, but they are absolutely inappropriate for a 20-something adult.

And I agree with you that Jim Bob’s attitude towards his daughter is creepy and sometimes the things he says are disturbing.

I actually think that in earlier seasons, Jim Bob and Michelle did a really great job of hiding the extent of their “lifestyle” and now they’re starting to slip up and we’re starting to see things and hear things that we didn’t before.

ETA Another thing…Jim Bob and Michelle have said several times that the kids follow these rules voluntarily, especially the courtship rules. They claim each couple decide what rules they will follow once they begin courting. I think that’s nothing but baloney. Absolute baloney. Those girls didn’t have a choice. They live under their father’s thumb and they do what he expects. Notice when Jill was walking through the streets with Derrick when they first met and Derrick put his arm on her back and Jim Bob quickly got between them and put a stop to it. yea, HE makes the rules. Not his adult daughters.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
LOL about the “side hug” business. Or even “hand-holding”. Their focus on the externals really does strike me as misguided; because even on the Jessa engagement episode, there’s a scene in which she and Ben hold hands (before engagement) when the whole company holds hands to say grace over the meal, and people freak out over it, then begrudgingly decide that’s okay, even though the hand-holding was obviously in a fellowship, not a romantic context.

Like I said, doesn’t sound very voluntary to me.

This is not to say I am ridiculing people who wish to be chaste. However, I do think it is going way too far to essentially state that a courting couple actually has LESS leeway to express physical affection than NON-courting couples do. I’m also reminded of the misguided modesty that actually leads to women foregoing medical care in some countries because they believe only a man related to them, or a husband, is allowed to touch them.

Anyway, to me some of what I see on the show is disturbing precisely BECAUSE I do think Michelle and Jim Bob do love their children. I don’t think any of the Duggar daughters are at risk of being sold off to a man decades older than they are just so Jim Bob can get a better land deal, as happens in many “traditional” cultures where “arranged marriages” are still practiced. Or that Jim Bob would ever think of “honor killing” his daughters out of shame if one of them were the victim of sexual assault.

In such families, I really get the sense that the men involved don’t really love their daughters. I do think Jim Bob does love his daughters, though. Which makes his attitude toward them even more disturbing to me.
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I agree, I do believe they love their children and want the absolute best for them. I just think that Jim Bob and Michelle themselves are VERY misguided and have been sucked so far into the movement that they joined and have been brainwashed themselves. I don’t have harsh feelings for either one of them. In fact, I think they sound like very nice people. But I disagree with how they treat their adult children and I do feel sorry for them because I believe they’ve been sucked into a cult and their children are going to pay the price for that.
 
Michelle’s explanation that “their father owns their hearts” as the reason why Ben had to ask for Jim Bob’s blessing to propose to Jessa. This was, quite honestly, creepier than if she’d come out and said that "we believe the father has authority over his daughters and the right to determine who is acceptable as a husband". It was almost quasi-incestuous, I remember also being creeped out by an earlier episode when she stated her daughters kept their hair long because “their father likes it that way”.

Is that what they believe?

Parents have lots of responsibilities, but choosing a spouse for their kids is not, in my opinion, one of them.
 
Pretty much. I have noticed Anna’s odd cadence when speaking to her kids myself. I do like how she Interacts with her children. She is very loving. I get the feeling they won’t have double digits of kids guessing 6-8. Her sister Priscilla Waller seems incredibly sweet and Incapeable of a mean thought. Her voice and speech pattern is the oddest of the group. She has loads of YouTube videos worth taking a look at.
 
I really find it puzzling how so many people attribute things to the Duggars that I have never seen. Their treatment of the cousin who is a young woman and the support of her going to Nashville to attempt a singing career seems not to fit in with everyone’s cultlike accusations.

I like the Duggars and yes, I am sure the whole thing is reality tv’d up and manipulated but a happy family where the children respect the parents and remain chaste. All while somewhat selling out to a network that ultimately decideds the content of the show belies Jim Bob’s accused power trip.

Geesh have you seen the other freak shows out there? Sister Wives, or anything on E!🤷 At least it is a program I can always watch with my children and wife and my kids don’t take away that it is oppressive or unhealthy at all. They just see probably what the TV wants you to see. A happy family with good wholesome values.

Man, sometimes I think there would be a thread about how the Waltons were incestuous for the bed scene. Or how Charlie in Charlie and the Chocolate factory was about swinging grandparents.:rolleyes:
 
KCT said:
Michelle’s explanation that “their father owns their hearts” as the reason why Ben had to ask for Jim Bob’s blessing to propose to Jessa. This was, quite honestly, creepier than if she’d come out and said that "we believe the father has authority over his daughters and the right to determine who is acceptable as a husband". It was almost quasi-incestuous, I remember also being creeped out by an earlier episode when she stated her daughters kept their hair long because “their father likes it that way”.

Is that what they believe?

Parents have lots of responsibilities, but choosing a spouse for their kids is not, in my opinion, one of them.
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They don’t quite come out and state this either on TV or on the TLC website, but that’s definitely the vibe I get from their whole approach to courtship. I wouldn’t say it’s the same as arranged marriage in the sense that the daughter gets no say in who she marries, however the only suitors she gets to consider are those pre-screened by Jim Bob and found to be acceptable.

Now, Michelle has posted on her TLC blog that if the daughters aren’t interested in these men themselves, then JB will be “the one who says no”. Now of course I’m sure some people will question her claims, but as far as I can tell, Jim Bob is not actually forcing his daughters to agree to particular courtships.

But note that both Jill and Jessa were “introduced” to the eventual husbands by Jim Bob; Jill didn’t even know Derek existed before that, and I think Jessa had “met” Ben before but very briefly, more in the sense of “here are all the Seewalds” (they’re also a fairly large family with 7 kids) than “here’s Ben”.

Now, this “pre-screening”, as far as I know, is not exclusive to the Duggars and others who follow the quiverfull movement, but has been advocated by many courtship supporters. I’ve even seen courtship “educational” material for young men that encourage them to “court” the fathers first!

The issue with this approach to courtship, is that it really only works if the daughters are still living with their fathers and "under their authority. It doesn’t work if they’re living on their own, at college, etc. Also, it seems the Duggars really want to keep close tabs not only on their daughters, but on their son-in-laws as well! Such as JB grilling Derek about his approach to finances, and then there’s JB actually “hiring” Ben to work for him.

I really think that if Ben/Jessa split, they would BOTH have very strong cases for annulment in a Catholic tribunal on the grounds that they were both under heavy pressure to marry; in Ben’s case, there was certainly the implicit threat of financial retribution if he backed out of the marriage. So, I really can’t say the Duggar approach to courtship is a good one, if it leads to an invalid marriage.
 
My parents grew up in a little village in Sicily, where everyone was Catholic.

Years ago, if a young man was interested he would send word to the family of the young lady. Then if she was interested she would send word back. Usually the mothers would do this initial back and forth.

Then they would court, be chaperoned most of the time, be allowed to attend Mass together, perhaps be allowed to go to very public places together, accompanied by a chaperone. (often a younger brother or sister) Then they would marry.

I can’t imagine all those generations of weddings being invalid.

I think there was perhaps some attraction before sending word. A furtive glance at mass or walking by the intended’s home, hoping to see them at the window.
 
Hoosier Daddy, I am glad you like to watch the Duggars and its a nice show for you and your family. I am not taking anything out of context. I actually know people who grew up the way the Duggars did, and people who were in their social circles from homeschool conferences. They are the face of a huge subculture many people barely know anything about. There are organizations dedicated to helping people leave this group.
Do you know anyhing about Bill Gothard or Doug Phillips? Ever hear of recoveringgrace.org ? Vision Forum, the Stay at a home daughter movement? These are all things the Duggars are linked to. It’s not some conspiracy theory, or wild speculation. I am not some hysterical feminist, or silly female, go ahead and roll your eyes at me…I don’t care if you believe me or not.

If you want to watch the Duggars at face value and enjoy it go ahead.
 
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