2 million Colombians request referendum to ban gay adoption

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I always see this “argument” brought up. You have anecdotal evidence. As do I. They contradict each other. We are then left with the reality: the vast majority of kids who grow up raised by same sex couples disagree with you. I’m sorry if that’s inconvenient for your “argument”.

And I’d be willing to bet they know a little more about this subject than anyone on this forum.
I presume you are basing the claim on the “majority of kids” on various studies that have been done, but the problem with that is, and one of the reasons why I think you’ll find some people skeptical of these studies is because of the methodology of various studies. Where are the studies that are on large, random, representive samples? Studies that ask parents to self report which could be open to social desirability bias or recruit participants from specific cities, (like the NLLS has done in their survey/study), for example, are going to get criticism.

More studies are needed that ompare the outcomes for children raised by same-sex parents, to the outcomes of children raised by their biological parents, and have large, random, representive samples and the lack of many of these studies just create more questions, rather than the studies that have been done providing definitive answers.
 
I presume you are basing the claim on the “majority of kids” on various studies that have been done, but the problem with that is, and one of the reasons why I think you’ll find some people skeptical of these studies is because of the methodology of various studies. You’ll probably be hard pressed to find many studies on large, random, representive samples, that don’t ask parents to self report which could be to social desirability bias, and studies that compare the outcomes for children raised by same-sex parents, to the outcomes of children raised by their biological parents, and the lack of many of these studies just create more questions, rather than the studies that have been done providing definitive answers.
Yes. I’m well aware that any of the many studies that are inconvenient to your argument will be flatly rejected.

It wouldn’t matter who performed the study, how unbias it is, or how intricately the details are combed over and confirmed. If the results disagree with your existing opinion that kids being raised by gay couples is “bad”, you will reject those results.

Nevermind the fact that children have been raised by same sex couples far longer than many would like to admit. Granted, it wasn’t until the last decade or so that more attention was paid to it, but if these children were really being harmed…where are they?

Wouldn’t they be coming out in droves denouncing same sex parents? Instead, all we see is the occasional click bate on CBN or something with an “exclusive interview” of some adult who happened to have a bad experience. Those against gay couples adopting or raising kids then pounce on those stories (because of course they do; again, they’re few and far between!).

Again, the facts are inconvenient for your argument. I get that. But that doesn’t make them false.
 
Yes. I’m well aware that any of the many studies that are inconvenient to your argument will be flatly rejected.

It wouldn’t matter who performed the study, how unbias it is, or how intricately the details are combed over and confirmed. If the results disagree with your existing opinion that kids being raised by gay couples is “bad”, you will reject those results.

Nevermind the fact that children have been raised by same sex couples far longer than many would like to admit. Granted, it wasn’t until the last decade or so that more attention was paid to it, but if these children were really being harmed…where are they?

Wouldn’t they be coming out in droves denouncing same sex parents? Instead, all we see is the occasional click bate on CBN or something with an “exclusive interview” of some adult who happened to have a bad experience. Those against gay couples adopting or raising kids then pounce on those stories (because of course they do; again, they’re few and far between!).

Again, the facts are inconvenient for your argument. I get that. But that doesn’t make them false.
Mark Regnerus (and by the way I don’t take his study in isolation, there needs to be a lot more studies, and he’s admitted this too), but he discusses the Hawthorne effect etc. and how these kids in his study live in a “fishbowl,”

I am expanding here, but those who gave grown up in same-sex households could be well educated, they can have grown up in a loving home, they can have a stable job, but that doesn’t mean they don’t feel an emptiness or loss from not having a Mother or Father around. Taking a different situation entirely, but there are people that have grow up in loving homes with their biological Father and Stepmother, but they still seek out their biological Mother, because they seek that biological attachment, among other things.

Going back to those raised in same-sex households who feel the loss of a permanent presence of a Mother or Father, such individuals will not nessesarily come out and publicly speak about this, they may not want to upset the family that did raise them, and/or because they’ve likely grown up in a LGBT friendly home, they wouldn’t want to negatively harm the larger community and what they’ve fought for in the way of the right to adopt.

Would you reject a study that found negative outcomes for children raised same-sex couples? I guess you would, but you can correct me if I am wrong. Methodology matters because people find things to criticise in any study that open itself up to have holes poked into the research because arguably the best methodology has not been used.
 
This is certainly good news. Same sex couples have no place in raising children. Children are meant to be raised by one man and one woman in the Sacrament of Matrimony. Granted, I can’t say much because of my own situation where I am raising my child with the help of his father and we are not married. We don’t live together though so it’s basically like we are single parents raising Colton. I hate that it is like this but we are currently unable to get married because of I would lose my finances if we were to do so.
 
My son and his husband found both their children by being foster parents first. They took in countless kids before adopting and continue to do so today.

How exactly are they putting their needs before the kids? Give me a break.
Yes, a child needs love, but the love of a mother differs from the love of a father, mothers parent differently than fathers, and this is why a child is being denied that when he/she is raised by only one parent or parents of the same sex.

Being that the family (and as a result society) has fallen apart, most kids will welcome any love that comes their way, but this does not change the fact that children should ALL be GIVEN the chance to have both a mother and a father.

p.s. You’re son did a wonderful deed in fostering children, but I disagree with gay couples raising children, and that is because children should be given the opportunity to have both a mother and a father, and gays, at least those brought up in a traditional home, should realize this.
 
Because anecdotal evidence from a very small number of people is proof that gay people shouldn’t adopt?
I’d say anecdotal evidence is fine, but unnecessary when we have the words of the Church and the Holy Father himself.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

*“[T]he Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family,” he wrote to the four monasteries in Argentina. “At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

He went on to describe it as a “‘move’ of the Father of Lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God” and asked for lawmakers to “not act in error.” In John 8:44, the Father of Lies is the devil.*
 
The bible says homosexual relationships are an abomination, it is classified as a mental disorder if Im not mistaken, so Im not sure why a gay couple should be allowed to adopt.

What kind of morals are those children going to be taught growing up in a house like that?

I dont think its right, but unfortunately acceptance is going to happen eventually, probably within a couple generations, any retaliation against homosexuality will be a most severe crime, Id say the CC will be forced to accept this too.

The more I think about it, this may be the ‘deception’ God is going to send as the final test…it does fit the descriptions.
 
The bible says homosexual relationships are an abomination, it is classified as a mental disorder if Im not mistaken, so Im not sure why a gay couple should be allowed to adopt.

What kind of morals are those children going to be taught growing up in a house like that?

I dont think its right, but unfortunately acceptance is going to happen eventually, probably within a couple generations, any retaliation against homosexuality will be a most severe crime, Id say the CC will be forced to accept this too.

The more I think about it, this may be the ‘deception’ God is going to send as the final test…it does fit the descriptions.
What source classifies homosexuality as a mental disorder? Certainly not the Bible which never ever mentions homosexuality and certainly not every reputable medical organization, which views homosexuality as a normal, though rare, variation of normal human sexuality.

I agree with you that acceptance of this normal facet of human life is here and future acceptance is inevitable.
 
This is certainly good news. Same sex couples have no place in raising children. Children are meant to be raised by one man and one woman in the Sacrament of Matrimony. Granted, I can’t say much because of my own situation where I am raising my child with the help of his father and we are not married. We don’t live together though so it’s basically like we are single parents raising Colton. I hate that it is like this but we are currently unable to get married because of I would lose my finances if we were to do so.
Granted.
 
What source classifies homosexuality as a mental disorder? Certainly not the Bible which never ever mentions homosexuality and certainly not every reputable medical organization, which views homosexuality as a normal, though rare, variation of normal human sexuality.

I agree with you that acceptance of this normal facet of human life is here and future acceptance is inevitable.
Did you just say that the Bible DOESN’T mention homosexuality??? :eek:

You must not know your Bible.
 
Did you just say that the Bible DOESN’T mention homosexuality??? :eek:

You must not know your Bible.
“Homosexuality” was not a term that existed when the Bible was written. Surely anyone who has read the Bible knows this. For confirmation, see The Bible.
 
The bible says homosexual relationships are an abomination, it is classified as a mental disorder if Im not mistaken, so Im not sure why a gay couple should be allowed to adopt.
Maybe because adoption law in the US is not reliant on biblical teachings?
 
I’d say anecdotal evidence is fine, but unnecessary when we have the words of the Church and the Holy Father himself.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

*“[T]he Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family,” he wrote to the four monasteries in Argentina. “At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

He went on to describe it as a “‘move’ of the Father of Lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God” and asked for lawmakers to “not act in error.” In John 8:44, the Father of Lies is the devil.*
I’m sorry, but the teachings of the church have nothing to do with adoption law.
 
I know this is politically incorrect, especially on CAF, but all the gays I know were the result of heterosexual relations and raised by heterosexual parents. Based on this, wouldn’t gay parents produce straight kids since straight parents are the ones (up to now) that have created homosexual children? Unless of course, homosexuality is result of nature, not nurture.

Btw, I have two brothers… One is gay, one is not. Both had the same biological parents and were raised by those same parents. Both knew early on what they preferred. Do we blame their parents?
 
I’m sorry, but the teachings of the church have nothing to do with adoption law.
  1. I’ll be sure and tell the Holy Father to butt out and mind his own business then, as he was speaking to the Argentine Congress about this.
  2. You’re wrong of course, as we all know. The teachings of the Church have to do with everything.
 
“Homosexuality” was not a term that existed when the Bible was written. Surely anyone who has read the Bible knows this. For confirmation, see The Bible.
Maybe the modern term did not exist, but God destroyed 2 cities for this very thing…plus the verse that he says it is an abomination for 2 men to lay together as husband/wife…meaning a homosexual relationship.
 
Maybe the modern term did not exist, but God destroyed 2 cities for this very thing…
Because gang raping people to death would be fine and dandy as long as the rape in question were heterosexual in nature?:rolleyes:
 
“Homosexuality” was not a term that existed when the Bible was written. Surely anyone who has read the Bible knows this. For confirmation, see The Bible.
The word Trinity was not a word which existed when the Bible was written (1st century), does that mean evidence for the Trinity is not in the Bible, i.e., there are scriptures which reference homosexuality or rather homosexual acts as being an ABOMINATION, hence, my comment.

Read your Bible.
 
Mark Regnerus (and by the way I don’t take his study in isolation, there needs to be a lot more studies, and he’s admitted this too), but he discusses the Hawthorne effect etc. and how these kids in his study live in a “fishbowl,”

I am expanding here, but those who gave grown up in same-sex households could be well educated, they can have grown up in a loving home, they can have a stable job, but that doesn’t mean they don’t feel an emptiness or loss from not having a Mother or Father around. Taking a different situation entirely, but there are people that have grow up in loving homes with their biological Father and Stepmother, but they still seek out their biological Mother, because they seek that biological attachment, among other things.

Going back to those raised in same-sex households who feel the loss of a permanent presence of a Mother or Father, such individuals will not nessesarily come out and publicly speak about this, they may not want to upset the family that did raise them, and/or because they’ve likely grown up in a LGBT friendly home, they wouldn’t want to negatively harm the larger community and what they’ve fought for in the way of the right to adopt.

Would you reject a study that found negative outcomes for children raised same-sex couples? I guess you would, but you can correct me if I am wrong. Methodology matters because people find things to criticise in any study that open itself up to have holes poked into the research because arguably the best methodology has not been used.
(Sorry for the late reply)

I’m sure there are some children of same sex couples who “feel an emptiness” as a result of a mother or father being absent. By your own admission, children being raised by a single parent, grandparent, extended family member or an adoptive parent sometimes feel the same thing.

Considering how much more common it is for a child to be raised in any of those other circumstances, one has to ask why same sex parents should be singled out. I understand the belief that “a child being raised by the biological parents is the most desirable situation”, but I disagree with it completely.

Obviously, if a man and a woman have a child, the most desirable thing to happen would be for those two to raise the child. But that simply isn’t the world we live in. There are many children born whose ideal upbringing is by anyone BUT their biological parents.

And then we have children where having their biological parents in the picture is no longer an option, for whatever reason. Your idea of what the model family that surrounds this child should be is now unavailable. At this point, we are left with the many situations a child could end up in. I don’t think it’s fair to say a gay couple should be avoided, because there are many same sex couples who are far more suited to parent than many of their heterosexual counterparts.

As for a study whose results denounce same sex parents, I would look at any credible results with an open mind, but the fact remains that every single study out there is or will be perceived as bias in some way by the detractors. That leaves us with the real life, nitty gritty of these situations. And the overall consensus there is that these children are doing absolutely fine.

There are exceptions, of course, as with any other arrangement, but the reality is that these are families. And I don’t think these families are any more or less of a family than my own, your own, or anybody else’s. They ALL deserve to be respected. And any person or any couple who has willingly become a parent, either by foster, adoption, or another situation, and who is raising a happy, supported and encouraged child deserves to be commended.

I always ask this question but never seem to get an answer: What do you propose we do about the tens of thousands (or more) children already being raised by same sex couples? Do you believe these kids should be removed from their homes and yanked away from their parents to be placed with a more traditional family? I understand your desire to somehow prevent these situations from happening to begin with, but you cannot, and these families will continue to exist as they always have.

So what do we do with the existing children? Should my grandchildren, who were adopted out of foster care by my son and his husband, be taken away by the government and given to your family or someone else’s?

I do not understand the goal here. You have an idea of what you think a “real” family should be, as we all do, but that idea ignores the millions of other families who don’t meet that criteria. What exactly is the remedy to all of this?
 
Yes, a child needs love, but the love of a mother differs from the love of a father, mothers parent differently than fathers, and this is why a child is being denied that when he/she is raised by only one parent or parents of the same sex.

Being that the family (and as a result society) has fallen apart, most kids will welcome any love that comes their way, but this does not change the fact that children should ALL be GIVEN the chance to have both a mother and a father.

p.s. You’re son did a wonderful deed in fostering children, but I disagree with gay couples raising children, and that is because children should be given the opportunity to have both a mother and a father, and gays, at least those brought up in a traditional home, should realize this.
See my previous post. What do you suggest we do about the tens of thousands of children already being raised in these families that you believe to be “bad for children”? Do you propose the government tear them away from their parents and be placed with what you consider a “better” family?

Your family is not better than anyone else’s.
 
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