IGNORANCE
…was the first word which came into my mind after reading this discussion. I am very sorry but the second was worse.
Christ (according to Catholic belief) “made” His Church, He made one Church, and gave apostles power, right and duty to lead His Church. And He decided to establish head of this aposles, namely Peter. There is no word “pope” in Bible, no Patriach of West, no Primate of Italy, no Metropolitan of Roman province, no bishop of Rome…
Peter was in Antioch prior to Rome and in our nowadays terminolgy (let us say) he was bishop of Antioch (who was later granted title of Patriarch of Antioch and the whole East). Then he was operating in Rome and was bishop of Rome. At the same time there was (probably) his succesor in Antioch, but Head was still Peter. This is one of reasons that Peter’s succesor is in Rome and not in Antioch. After Peter’s death his successor were in Rome – bishops of Rome. Still no pope, but yes… the Head without title pope.
Later concils created metropolitans and patriarchs. Concils also told that it was OK to call bishop (patriarch) of Alexandria as Pope as it had been being done. And after Alexandria also bishop (patriach) of Rome was granted title Pope. So there were two popes without any “damage” to one Head.
Chalcedon:
In Alexandria there are Chalcedonian (Catholic and Orthodox are still one) and non-Chalcedonian popes.
Non-Chalcedoninas are now known as ORIENTAL Orthodox, not Eastern Orthodox.
1054:
We could have three ones in Alexandria if there was split.
now:
In Alexandria there are
- Oriental Pope and Patriarch of the Great city Alexandria and the whole Africa
- Eatern Orthodox Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and the whole Africa
- Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria and the whole Africa (for Coptic Catholics) who could we also titled as Pope but not the Head.
Catholis Church officially says that in Churches where there is a valid apostolic succession, there are real bishop who are to be called bishops and Catholic Church accepts and uses titles of patriarch for Eastern and Oriental Orthodox patriarchs. There are also catholicoi but it is not important now. And Catholic Church also recognises title pope for non-Catholic patriarch od Alexandria.
And to triumphalism and catholic egocentrism:
Many “Westerns” do not know there are Eastern Catholic Churches also having cardinals (and sometimes prefects), many Catholics have problem to tell that non-Catholic Christians are at least “something like Christians”, many Catholics are absolutely noninformed about other Christans, their faith and their history (often the same “noes” for history of Catholic Church), and many Catholics would like to gravitate everything to their Church and ignore the whole other world. And according to my opinion (not humble in this point) this is very bad.
Not a long time ago I read article from one convert from some of American Protestant Churches. He says that his familty asked him after his conversion questions like: “And you still believe in God?” “You really still believe in Christ?” and so on. I think many Catholics do the same. Unfortunately.
Furthemor, there are many apostolic sees in the world (some occupied by Catholic Patriarchs) but because of some reason Catholics use the terms Apostolic See (with capital letter(s)) just for Roman see if there are no specific circumstances.
And no one says that Coptic Pope of Alexandria, Eastern Orthodox Pope of Alexandria, Catholic Patriarch (pope) of Alexandria, and Catholic Pope of Rome are same in their duties, ministry, understending of office, and definitely not in being Heads.
For Copts their pope is just head of their church, even not of all non-Chalcedonians. For Eastern Orthodox it is just head of one of 14 local churches, one who is equal with other heads.
Imagine that throuhgout the time people “develop” title “Loving Heart” for the Head of the Church and pope would be just historic title. Would it be a problem? And if (Catholic) bishop of Bagdad would by the first Loving Heart, bishop of Rio de Janeiro the second and Peter’s successor the third, would this be attacking his authority? Or should be Loving Heart absolutely prohibited for anyone with just one exception?
As has been pointed out, ‘Al baba’ is the exact equivalent of il Papa - Pope in Italian.
As an aside - dang, doesn’t it make you wish the two had somehow managed to meet up with Benedict at the same time? Maximum Pope power!!!
(bold mine)
If really maximum “Pope power” then: Roman current and emeritus Popes, Oriental Pope of Alexandria, Eastern Orthodox of Alexandria, and to maximize as much as possible I suggest also current and emeritus Catholic Patriachs of Alexandria (Popes), so 4 or may be 6 Popes.
On more question to appropriateness: Those of you who consider it unappropriate to call Coptic Pope with the word “Pope”, do you not consider in unappropriate to call HH Benedict XVI as “Pope Emeritus”? This title was chosen by him before leaving ministry and de facto (and may be officialy, I don’t know) recognized by HH Francis.
