2 Questions on Apostolic Succession

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Mickey:
Do the Orthodox really claim that Arius is in hell? :confused:
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As I say, this is or was the teaching of the Catholic Church from the early centuries. When we sprung into existence in 1054 AD we simply accepted it.
 
Fr Ambrose:
Very mild compared to what the Popes teach. We can go through the official papal statements starting from the 12th century with Pope Innocent III and up to Pope Pius XI in the 20th century and see how the constant teaching of Peter through the Popes is the damnation of all those not in communion with the Popes.
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I will not play tit-for-tat with you by posting counter quotes to quotes that you post. What I posted is but a few examples of the injury and deep wounds caused by the schism (as I’m sure you can post examples of your own). It is fruitless, counter-productive, and only leads to escalation of uncharitable discussion. I understand that you are always looking for a good fight. But I will not be your opponent.
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JSmitty2005:
I don’t think you can say that considering that Fr. Feeney was condemned.
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I do say it. Do you want to learn your Catholic history? I can send you the quotes concerning this teaching from the Popes in every century since the Schism. You can locate the full Encyclicals and check the full context with your own personal historical research. That would be more convincing than hearing it from me.
 
Fr Ambrose:
As I say, this is or was the teaching of the Catholic Church from the early centuries. When we sprung into existence in 1054 AD we simply accepted it.
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That is quite interesting. Where and when was it proclaimed?
 
Fr Ambrose:
I do say it. Do you want to learn your Catholic history? I can send you the quotes concerning this teaching from the Popes in every century since the Schism. You can locate the full Encyclicals and check the full context with your own personal historical research. That would be more convincing than hearing it from me.
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I’ve probably read most of them, but yes, I would like the quotes of every pope since the Schism on this matter. Are you saying that Fr. Feeney was wrongly condemned, at least in light of the Church’s own teachings?
 
Fr Ambrose:
None of the Eastern services are post 9th century, the time of Saint John of Damascus who was a profilic liturgical writer. He was of course a Roman Catholic saint in obedience to the Pope. This particular service is of an earlier date (but I am not sure exactly when) and so it this was definitely composed before the existence of the Orthodox Church at the time when the Pope was in charge.
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So seventh or eigth century? Almost as old as the use of the filioque in the creed.
 
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JSmitty2005:
I’ve probably read most of them, but yes, I would like the quotes of every pope since the Schism on this matter.
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Shall I post them on the Forum or by a PM to you?
Are you saying that Fr. Feeney was wrongly condemned, at least in light of the Church’s own teachings?
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I don’t really know who the condemned Fr Feeney is? An Irishman I guess?
 
Fr Ambrose:
I see that we have access to the Encyclical on the EWTN site but someone here has mentioned that they have not found the full and complete encyclical. Are they referring to the EWTN version and if it is not the full Encyclical where may we find it please? Before apologising for sending, in innocence, what is claimed to be a false quote I want proof that we are reading the entire Encylical. Does that seem reasonable?
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It is not our job to prove the quote is not a fraud. The duty falls on *you *to prove otherwise since you supplied it as fact in the beginning.

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Thanks for the postcard you sent me though! :rotfl: Just kidding.
 
Fr Ambrose:
Shall I post them on the Forum or by a PM to you?
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Post 'em right here.
I don’t really know who the condemned Fr Feeney is? An Irishman I guess?
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You don’t?! You act as though you’re so knowledgeable of Catholic history. I would have expected you to know that he was condemned for teaching that all non-Catholics were damned. BTW, this was pre-Vat 2.
 
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jimmy:
So seventh or eigth century? Almost as old as the use of the filioque in the creed.
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Probably earlier. The First Ecumenical Council which condemned Arius was in 325 AD.
 
Fr Ambrose:
Shall I post them on the Forum or by a PM to you?I don’t really know who the condemned Fr Feeney is? An Irishman I guess?
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Feenyism is the idea that there is no baptism of desire, there is no baptism of blood. It professes that a person can only be saved by being an official Catholic who is visibly within the Catholic Church. He taught that every protestant goes to hell, every eastern orthodox goes to hell. This teaching was condemned.
 
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JSmitty2005:
You don’t?! You act as though you’re so knowledgeable of Catholic history. I would have expected you to know that he was condemned for teaching that all non-Catholics were damned. BTW, this was pre-Vat 2.
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Well, I can’t be expected to keep track of all the little heretics in your Church, surely?

Got to go now! Not sure if the Moderator of this Apologetics Forum wants to see this little donneybrook continuing. If you like we can continue in the Eastern Christianity Forum since this is a regular topic over there.
 
Fr Ambrose:
Well, I can’t be expected to keep track of all the little heretics in your Church, surely?
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He wasn’t little. In fact, it caused quite a problem that’s still around today.
 
Fr Ambrose:
Got to go now! Not sure if the Moderator of this Apologetics Forum wants to see this little donneybrook continuing.
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Yes–better to pray rather than argue.
 
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Mickey:
Yes–better to pray rather than argue.
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And I had forgotten that you are in your Passion Week. My apologies for any disturbance I have caused. Quite out of place in this holy time.
 
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