James I strongly suspected you were going to the section on church discipline, which has nothing to do with the context concerning which is correct doctrine and what is not.
Yes, pronouncing and teaching a false doctrine is a real bad thing for the one who does.
Why doesn’t it. you admit above that teaching fals doctrine is a “real bad thing” (aka sin) but then you say that Christ’s own instructions which are contained
in Scripture don’t apply???
Remarkable
One would have to determine which doctrine is true and what is not and that is established in Scripture, which case I am correct that water baptism is not necessary for salvation as the thief on the cross proves to us and the NT Biblical pattern was and always has been hearing, believing, then receiving the HS, which is the point of justification, then followed immediately by water baptism; is still the common practice throughout the church today.
All fine and good that you believe you are correct. Others here who have been talking with you also believe they are correct and have been using Scripture to support their position.
Thus it can be said that, while Truth may be established in Scripture, Proper ununderstanding of Scripture may not be so self evident. Hense Christ’s clear instructions on how to handle such situations.
Unfortunately for some reason some people make a general profession and are advised to be water baptized and for whatever reason do not, which is a direct act of disobedience and I believe a sin because it is a direct command throughout the NT. So water baptism is an important thing to do for the right reason(s).
And so - how can their general profession be of any salvic merit when they immediately engage in a, “
direct act of disobedience…because it is a direct command throughout the NT”, against God? In this one statement you’ve made the for the salvic necessity of water baptism.
Thank you very much.
Ponder this; Matthew 18 is Jesus preaching to a group of disciples like any other sermon He gave and His apostles were there as well as we can see from the context. So in Matthew 16 it is to all the apostles there and Matthew 18 it is to all Christians and where is the authority and why is heaven in agreement because both come from the same source, which is God, and the loosing and binding power comes from the Gospel and whether one accepts the good news or rejects the good news is what determines if ones sins are loosed or bound. Very simple concept; yet amazing how many people can’t see it or understand it. Yet, if asked if you gave someone the gospel and they told you to “shove it”; you could easily tell that person you are bound in your sin unless you repent…right? Would you be correct and would heaven be in agreement? Your answer would be “yes of course”.
Actually - Yes it is a simple concept and a very simple set of instructions.
Too bad that you don’t properly understand it.
I can virtually guarantee that if I gave a bible to someone who never read the bible before, never attended Church before, that they would not get your understanding from that passage.
Ponder this:
If we take away your obvious fear of anything heirarchial or “authoritative” (such as the RC Structure) and look at the term “Church” only in the sense of “community” (ecclesia) the third step in Christ’s instruction reads as follows:
"
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the community; and if he refuses to listen even to the community let him be as a tax collector.
The following verse then carries on this theme
Truly I say to you (the community),
whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
So from the above we can see that where their ar contentious issues between individual members it is the “community” that makes the determination as to what shall be “bound or loosed”. Naturally this determination is made (or should be made) humbly, prayerfully and charitably, under the Guidance of the Holy Spirit.
So far we have been looking and thinking in terms of a “local community”. Now we need to take this to the next level. What happens when one local community makes one determination and another local community makes a different and essentially opposing or incompatable determination? After all this is what happened betweent he local communities of Antioch and Jerusalem, or more generally between the Gentile Christians and the Jewish Christians.
This is where Acts 15 comes in. The two local communites could not settle the matter between themselves, nor could they settle it with the help of the great teacher they had in St Paul. But - rather than each treating the others as “tax collectors”, they appealed to the “elders of the community”, in council for a determination.
Why did they do this? Very simple - to maintain the Unity for which Christ prayed in John 17:20-21. For just as any individual is a member of the local community (church) so is each local community (church) a member of the universal community (church) and Unity of the universal community demands unity on what is “bound and loosed”.
So - your contention that “binding and loosing” is somehow “individual” just does not fly.
surely you are correct in saying that if someone refuses to hear the Gospel that we can say tehy remain “bound in their sin” but all we are doing their is expressing through ourselves what is the belief of the universal Church (community), and not something that we have determined individually and seperate from the community.
Peace
James
