2012 Republican Presidential Nomination

[Roy5]

If articial birth control is against God’s plan, why aren’t organ transplants, all sorts of surgerys, various drugs, etc. all against God’s plan? Maybe God intended Jack or Jill to die, but modern medicine got in the way!!!

I certainly understand the argument against abortion, and accept it in large part, allowing for exceptions to save of the life of the mother, rape and other circumstances. But to make artificial birth control a major sin was a serious mistake. There is nothing in scripture to support it. Many Catholic theologians did not agree with the papal document condemning it. How many millions of faithful Catholics have had their religious devotion shaken or erased entirely by this refusal to permit married couples to decide for themslves. Most of them do anyway, regardless of religion.

When God supposedly ordered Saul to kill every Amalekite, even sucklings, or when the crowds shouted "Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands" how does that fit into the anti-abortion position? Think of all the pregnant mothers who were slaughtered. Some of us (I among them) don't believe that God approved of such genocide, but those who hold to the conviction that every word in the Bible is true, how do you explain these atrocities? Consistently, please. I go with the Sermon on the Mount, myself.

 God bless everybody, of every creed, color, culture and country. Let us make religion a bridge and not a barrier. Christ would like that.

 To make anti-abortion the main issue in politics is to sidetrack other issues of enormous importance, especially the economy at this time.

 

[livnlern]

Obama’s policies are what is dividing America, plain and simple. And of the many reasons why this man deserves to be voted out of office, is one that is possibly the most important, yet astonishingly the most ignored.

Tarek Fatah, an Indian Muslim, tells it like it is: (must see video)
yourdaddy.net/2011/08/16/3-members-of-muslim-brotherhood-in-obama-administration-named-by-tarek-fatah/

Thank you for posting this link. It’s very interesting and hits the mark on how people are afraid of speaking out against Muslim extremists pushing their ideas on the rest of the world. I especially found the part about the Muslim Brotherhood having ties to the White House to be disturbing. The sooner Obama is out of office, the better for all of us.

 

[livnlern]

Obama’s policies are what is dividing America, plain and simple. And of the many reasons why this man deserves to be voted out of office, is one that is possibly the most important, yet astonishingly the most ignored.

And now we have, …

The Obama Administration takes on ‘Islamophobia’ - Nina Shea
nationalreview.com/articles/276021/administration-takes-islamophobia-nina-shea

---

This from the article:
"But thanks to a puzzling U.S. diplomatic initiative that was unveiled in July, Resolution 16/18 is poised to become a springboard for a greatly reinvigorated international effort to criminalize speech against Islam, the very thing it was designed to quash.

Citing a need to “move to implementation” of Resolution 16/18, the Obama administration has inexplicably decided to launch a major international effort against Islamophobia in partnership with the Saudi-based OIC. This is being voluntarily assumed at American expense, outside the U.N. framework, and is not required by the resolution itself."

Why is the US using taxpayer dollars to launch a worldwide anti-Muslim campaign? And I wonder how many people in our country know about this?

 

[jediliz]

If articial birth control is against God’s plan, why aren’t organ transplants, all sorts of surgerys, various drugs, etc. all against God’s plan? Maybe God intended Jack or Jill to die, but modern medicine got in the way!!!

I certainly understand the argument against abortion, and accept it in large part, allowing for exceptions to save of the life of the mother, rape and other circumstances. But to make artificial birth control a major sin was a serious mistake. There is nothing in scripture to support it. Many Catholic theologians did not agree with the papal document condemning it. How many millions of faithful Catholics have had their religious devotion shaken or erased entirely by this refusal to permit married couples to decide for themslves. Most of them do anyway, regardless of religion.

When God supposedly ordered Saul to kill every Amalekite, even sucklings, or when the crowds shouted "Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands" how does that fit into the anti-abortion position? Think of all the pregnant mothers who were slaughtered. Some of us (I among them) don't believe that God approved of such genocide, but those who hold to the conviction that every word in the Bible is true, how do you explain these atrocities? Consistently, please. I go with the Sermon on the Mount, myself.

 God bless everybody, of every creed, color, culture and country. Let us make religion a bridge and not a barrier. Christ would like that.

 To make anti-abortion the main issue in politics is to sidetrack other issues of enormous importance, especially the economy at this time.

Roy, you are pushing it.

Until the 1930s, ALL CHRISTIANS agreed that Artificial Birth Control was wrong. The only Church that has never moved from that is the Catholic Church. The other churches gave in a little too fast.

As for abortion for Rape, tell Rebecca Kiessling TO HER FACE that she deserved to die because her birth mother was raped. Or Juda Meyer, another woman who was conceived by rape. Both are beautiful women who are pro life speakers. Punish the rapist, NOT THE BABY! What did the baby do wrong? The baby is not the criminal here!

Nothing in scripture to support being OPEN TO LIFE with no barriers? How about Be Fertile and Multiply? How about what Onan did? What about Children are a Heritage of the Lord? What about Jesus loving the little children?

Abortion is never necessary to save a woman’s life. The doctor needs to do all he/she can to save BOTH PATIENTS, since there are TWO in a pregnancy.

Some surgeries are necessary to save a person’s life like in the case of emergency c-sections or heart surgery.

The Pill is a Carcinogen!

And ALL LIFE issues are important! Its not just abortion, but protecting the vulnerable, the disabled, and the elderly. Its about doing research that does not involve destruction of human embryos, and instead using ethical means. Its about traditional marriage, not a perverted lifestyle.

that’s why I would support Santorum or Cain over many of the candidates.

I can’t support anyone I can’t trust.

 

[estesbob]

Roy5:

 To make anti-abortion the main issue in politics is to sidetrack other issues of enormous importance, especially the economy at this time.

what issues are important to those denied the right to life?

 

[Roy5]

To be consistent, in my opinion, if humanity was supposed to ‘be fruitful and multiply’ alone, then the approved birth control system endorsed by the church should be condemned, too. The goal of both is the same. Limit the number of pregnancies. I believe that it’s the right of a couple to do that in the interest of providing the fullest opportunities for our offspring.

The abortion issue is a very different one and the two should not be confused. I am generally against abortion. However, I have known situations in which I would have left the decision up to the parents and the medicval profession and not to 'big brother', the state. If I were a mother whose life was in peril, and I already had, say, five little ones...and my husband pleaded with me to have an abortion rather than risk losing me....? I think I'd let that couple work that very tough issue in their own way. We kill innocent people every day in wars hither and yon and don't seem all that pious when it comes to that. But when it comes to saving the life of a mother of young children and a beloved wife - we get 'holier than thou'. Tough issue, I know, but I would allow for some slack in such horrendous situation. Compassion works in a variety of directions.

 My wife and I lost two babies through early miscarriages, so I know something about this whole matter. Did God somehow plan those pregnancies, then arrange for miscarriages for our good or that of the babies? This raises the vast question of whether God plans pregnancies or not. If so, why so many miscarriages? Should we blame God? If not, explain. I guess all I'm saying is that there are as many questions as answers in this entire area of concern and I don't rush to judgement.

 God bless everybody, and especially those confronting such crucial decisions. It's easy for us to make the decisions for them, but maybe Matt. 7:1-2 is relevant here.

 

[jediliz]

I’ll err on the side of life and I think many women would rather be like Saint Gianna, **who gave her life for her baby, refusing a procedure that would have killed her baby (but saved HER). **Instead, she gave birth to her baby, telling doctors that they should “Save the baby” if it came to that. Gianna died a few days after her daughter was born. That daughter is now a doctor herself.

And natural family planning, when used correctly, can achieve or DELAY pregnancy and can be used for spacing. God doesn’t expect everyone to have 20 children, but there’s a reason the marital embrace was designed the way it was. Barriers and artificial hormone pills take GOD out of the creation of children. It also spits on God and is a very selfISH decision.

Abortion SHOULD be banned, because as I said, it IS NEVER NEEDED. Err on the side of life…C-Sections CAN be done in emergencies, you know!

We are getting off topic here and I don’t want to get in trouble.

I would vote for a candidate that would nominate judge(s) to the SC that would vote YES to overturn Roe VS Wade, one of the WORST decisions the Court has EVER MADE.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

To be consistent, in my opinion, if humanity was supposed to ‘be fruitful and multiply’ alone, then the approved birth control system endorsed by the church should be condemned, too. The goal of both is the same. Limit the number of pregnancies. I believe that it’s the right of a couple to do that in the interest of providing the fullest opportunities for our offspring.

The abortion issue is a very different one and the two should not be confused. I am generally against abortion. However, I have known situations in which I would have left the decision up to the parents and the medicval profession and not to 'big brother', the state. If I were a mother whose life was in peril, and I already had, say, five little ones...and my husband pleaded with me to have an abortion rather than risk losing me....? I think I'd let that couple work that very tough issue in their own way. We kill innocent people every day in wars hither and yon and don't seem all that pious when it comes to that. But when it comes to saving the life of a mother of young children and a beloved wife - we get 'holier than thou'. Tough issue, I know, but I would allow for some slack in such horrendous situation. Compassion works in a variety of directions.

 My wife and I lost two babies through early miscarriages, so I know something about this whole matter. Did God somehow plan those pregnancies, then arrange for miscarriages for our good or that of the babies? This raises the vast question of whether God plans pregnancies or not. If so, why so many miscarriages? Should we blame God? If not, explain. I guess all I'm saying is that there are as many questions as answers in this entire area of concern and I don't rush to judgement.

 God bless everybody, and especially those confronting such crucial decisions. It's easy for us to make the decisions for them, but maybe Matt. 7:1-2 is relevant here.

A miscarriage is when a child dies in the womb…naturally (in other words, its life is not ended artificially by application of external forces). Death is a natural part of life. Do you blame God when a grandmother dies? Certainly not, so why would you blame God when a child dies in utero? I had a 2 year old son that was born with significant genetic complications that died as a result of those complications. By all accounts, the pregnancy went extraordinarily well. Should I blame God because he was “created” with genetic problems? No. As a result of Adam, we live in a fallen world. God doesn’t create junk or imperfection. Imperfection came to us as part of our fallen human nature. It actually would have been “better” for us if the child did die in utero, however, his short life taught us (my wife and I) a great deal about ourselves and our capacity to love unconditionally and to serve without expectation of repayment. Had he “miscarried”, we never would have learned that. Had we known about his problems, would we have considered abortion? Never. His life was precious just as it was. He was put on this earth to teach us something. He suffered tremendously while he was here. But he was baptised and never had the capacity to sin again, so I know that he is in Heaven, at the side of Jesus, praying for me. That never could have happened if we had chosen to kill him because his life would have been “complicated”.

 

[RACJ]

A miscarriage is when a child dies in the womb…naturally (in other words, its life is not ended artificially by application of external forces). Death is a natural part of life. Do you blame God when a grandmother dies? Certainly not, so why would you blame God when a child dies in utero? I had a 2 year old son that was born with significant genetic complications that died as a result of those complications. By all accounts, the pregnancy went extraordinarily well. Should I blame God because he was “created” with genetic problems? No. As a result of Adam, we live in a fallen world. God doesn’t create junk or imperfection. Imperfection came to us as part of our fallen human nature. It actually would have been “better” for us if the child did die in utero, however, his short life taught us (my wife and I) a great deal about ourselves and our capacity to love unconditionally and to serve without expectation of repayment. Had he “miscarried”, we never would have learned that. Had we known about his problems, would we have considered abortion? Never. His life was precious just as it was. He was put on this earth to teach us something. He suffered tremendously while he was here. But he was baptised and never had the capacity to sin again, so I know that he is in Heaven, at the side of Jesus, praying for me. That never could have happened if we had chosen to kill him because his life would have been “complicated”.

Beautifully said and right on target, Scott. I'm sorry for your loss, but happy to hear about how much your little one enriched your life. :heaven: Rob

 

[Tsuwano]

A miscarriage is when a child dies in the womb…naturally (in other words, its life is not ended artificially by application of external forces). Death is a natural part of life. Do you blame God when a grandmother dies? Certainly not, so why would you blame God when a child dies in utero? I had a 2 year old son that was born with significant genetic complications that died as a result of those complications. By all accounts, the pregnancy went extraordinarily well. Should I blame God because he was “created” with genetic problems? No. As a result of Adam, we live in a fallen world. God doesn’t create junk or imperfection. Imperfection came to us as part of our fallen human nature. It actually would have been “better” for us if the child did die in utero, however, his short life taught us (my wife and I) a great deal about ourselves and our capacity to love unconditionally and to serve without expectation of repayment. Had he “miscarried”, we never would have learned that. Had we known about his problems, would we have considered abortion? Never. His life was precious just as it was. He was put on this earth to teach us something. He suffered tremendously while he was here. But he was baptised and never had the capacity to sin again, so I know that he is in Heaven, at the side of Jesus, praying for me. That never could have happened if we had chosen to kill him because his life would have been “complicated”.

Your faith strengthens my faith, Scott. Thank you.

 

[Caldera]

Nina Shea’s article is excellent.

Happy to see that she is still around … she’s always been a superb writer.

She raises an important issue … two of them really … one is Freedom of Speech and the second is the preferential treatment given to Islam … versus bashing of Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.

Absolutely!

This audacity and hypocrisy of Islamic supremecism is nothing short of sickening. How does our President manage to embrace these supremecists and contemplate trampling the freedoms that too many American servicemen and women have fought and died to defend over the many years? What exactly is the agenda here at American expense that this President somehow thinks is OKAY?!

From the article:

As for reciprocity — for example, reforming the Saudi national curriculum that continues to teach students to “kill” Jews, “fight” polytheists, view Christians as “enemies,” and spread Islam through “jihad” — there probably won’t be any.

This initiative is shaping up to be one-sided. As Akram said, “The Resolution 16/18 was driven more by the kind of discrimination in Europe and the West in general against Muslims.” He added: “I don’t think any country in the Muslim world is deliberately discriminating against minorities.” Ihsanoglu took a similar tack, writing that “the Islamic faith is based on tolerance and acceptance of other religions. It does not condone discrimination of human beings on the basis of caste, creed, color, or faith.”

Where do you even begin to reply to such an obvious blatant lie?

How about just last month?

Muslim Persecution Of Christians: August 2011
hudson-ny.org/2401/muslim-persecution-of-christians-august-2011

Impeach Obama if they attempt to “move to implementation”.