43,000 denomination source

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PRmerger said:
And all of them submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and profess what is written here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
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However, there are differences. In a discussion about denominational differences, you mentioned that some churches use music and others do not. If this is a denominational distinction, then among the Catholic Churches there are differences which are just as serious, if not more so, than playing or not playing music in church.
Some Catholic churches say the filioque in their creed, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches use leavened bread, others use unleavened bread.
Some Catholic Churches crown the married couple, others will not have the crowning ceremony.
Some Catholic Churches confer confirmation at the time of baptism, others wait later at about 12 or 13 years old.
Some Catholic Churches have only icons and not statues, others allow statues.
Some Catholic Churches do not use the guitar in their services.
Some Catholic Churches receive Communion with a spoon, receiving both the Bread and Wine at the same moment.
Some Catholic Churches will allow married men as priests, others not.
Some Catholics believe in limbo, others do not.
Some Catholics believe that the fires of purgatory are equal to the fires of hell, others do not.
Fasting regulations differ between Catholic Churches of different traditions.
Some Catholic Churches have an altar rail, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches allow Communion in the Hand, others do not.

Most people are going to say that these do not constitute denominational differences. Similarly, the differences that you have mentioned, such as whether or not to play music during church services, are not enough to define a “denomination.”
Since you have not adequately defined what you mean by a denomination and shown that this definition is acceptable to the parties concerned, any attempt to justify the number of denominations at 43000 is unconvincing.
 
Tomdstone said:
However, there are differences. In a discussion about denominational differences, you mentioned that some churches use music and others do not. If this is a denominational distinction, then among the Catholic Churches there are differences which are just as serious, if not more so, than playing or not playing music in church.
Some Catholic churches say the filioque in their creed, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches use leavened bread, others use unleavened bread.
Some Catholic Churches crown the married couple, others will not have the crowning ceremony.
Some Catholic Churches confer confirmation at the time of baptism, others wait later at about 12 or 13 years old.
Some Catholic Churches have only icons and not statues, others allow statues.
Some Catholic Churches do not use the guitar in their services.
Some Catholic Churches receive Communion with a spoon, receiving both the Bread and Wine at the same moment.
Some Catholic Churches will allow married men as priests, others not.
Some Catholics believe in limbo, others do not.
Some Catholics believe that the fires of purgatory are equal to the fires of hell, others do not.
Fasting regulations differ between Catholic Churches of different traditions.
Some Catholic Churches have an altar rail, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches allow Communion in the Hand, others do not.

Most people are going to say that these do not constitute denominational differences. Similarly, the differences that you have mentioned, such as whether or not to play music during church services, are not enough to define a “denomination.”
Since you have not adequately defined what you mean by a denomination and shown that this definition is acceptable to the parties concerned, any attempt to justify the number of denominations at 43000 is unconvincing.
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Well, yeah, and thank you.

Now I can add that to my list of differences between Protestant denominations, since none of them agree on the above either.

:tiphat:

Here’s my amended list on what Protestants can’t agree on:

bortion
Attend weekly services, don’t have to go to Church
Baptism—in Jesus’ name only, or Trinitarian? In a river? Sprinkling? Immersion? Sacrament or ordinance? Adult or infant?
Can men and women sit together during services?
Church leadership, or no leadership
Death/Soul Sleep
Divorce and remarriage
Drinking alcohol
Health and wealth gospel
Hell
Homosexuality
Is God‘s Holy Name Jehovah
Is it permissible for women to teach Scripture
Music in their worship services
Once saved, always saved
Ordination
Predestination
Rapture
Sola scriptura/private interpretation
The Eucharist
Tongues
Trinity
When to celebrate the Lord’s Day
Women’s ordination
Whether to say the filioque in their creed
Whether to use leavened bread
Whether to crown the married couple (really? That’s a funny one to dispute, but ok)
Whether to confer confirmation at the time of baptism, others wait later at about 12 or 13 years old.
Whether to have icons and not statues
Whether to use the guitar in their services.
Whether to receive Communion with a spoon, receiving both the Bread and Wine at the same moment.
Whether to allow married men as preachers
Whether to believe in limbo
Whether the fires of purgatory are equal to the fires of hell
Fasting regulations differ between denominations
Some Protestant churches have an altar rail, others do not.
Some Protestant churches allow Communion in the Hand, others do not.

Wow!!

That’s a WHOLE LOT o’ DISAGREEMENTS. :eek:

What say you, Tom?
 
PRmerger said:
Wow!!

That’s a WHOLE LOT o’ DISAGREEMENTS. :eek:

What say you, Tom?
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I already said it. Disagreements within a group do not necessarily support the existence or the establishment of a separate “denomination.”
 
benhur said:
Right a unifying factor, just like all Protestants have a unifying factor also, they are all not Catholic or submit to the authority of the Roman pontiff.
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Right…

So which denominataion do I join to receive the fullness and truth of the Faith?

Because Protestants are definately unified in doctrine and all…:rolleyes:
 
Tomdstone said:
However, there are differences. In a discussion about denominational differences, you mentioned that some churches use music and others do not. If this is a denominational distinction, then among the Catholic Churches there are differences which are just as serious, if not more so, than playing or not playing music in church.
Some Catholic churches say the filioque in their creed, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches use leavened bread, others use unleavened bread.
Some Catholic Churches crown the married couple, others will not have the crowning ceremony.
Some Catholic Churches confer confirmation at the time of baptism, others wait later at about 12 or 13 years old.
Some Catholic Churches have only icons and not statues, others allow statues.
Some Catholic Churches do not use the guitar in their services.
Some Catholic Churches receive Communion with a spoon, receiving both the Bread and Wine at the same moment.
Some Catholic Churches will allow married men as priests, others not.
Some Catholics believe in limbo, others do not.
Some Catholics believe that the fires of purgatory are equal to the fires of hell, others do not.
Fasting regulations differ between Catholic Churches of different traditions.
Some Catholic Churches have an altar rail, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches allow Communion in the Hand, others do not.

Most people are going to say that these do not constitute denominational differences. Similarly, the differences that you have mentioned, such as whether or not to play music during church services, are not enough to define a “denomination.”
Since you have not adequately defined what you mean by a denomination and shown that this definition is acceptable to the parties concerned, any attempt to justify the number of denominations at 43000 is unconvincing.
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Thank you for sharing the wonderfull variety and richness of diversity that is in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church.

A fantastic example of how the richness and culture involved yet still proclaiming the one Truth since Jesus founded The Catholic church.

👍
 
benhur said:
Right a unifying factor, just like all Protestants have a unifying factor also, they are all not Catholic or submit to the authority of the Roman pontiff.
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That’s the only thing, then.

And it’s a trenchant point.

You see what happens when folks divorce themselves from the Vicar of Christ…you get this obscenity of tens of thousands of different denominations.
 
Louie1983 said:
So which denominataion do I join to receive the fullness and truth of the Faith?
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One that tells you they have the fullness and truth of the faith ?
Because Protestants are definately unified in doctrine and all…:rolleyes:.
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Right, not denominationally but more informaly, just as Catholics are denominationally unified but not always informaly.
 
Louie1983 said:
Thank you for sharing the wonderfull variety and richness of diversity that is in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church.
Click to expand...
You’re welcome. Do you see that differences like this do not argue for the existence of different denominations?
 
PRmerger said:
That’s the only thing, then.
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But that is a big thing, a real big thing (that P’s are unified in not being Catholic). Saints lost their lives on both sides of the fence for that difference.
And it’s a trenchant point.
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That is right, Catholic means Catholic. Orthodox means Orthodox.The rest is Protestant, which came out of Catholicism or are no longer Catholic. Quite incisive.
You see what happens when folks divorce themselves from the Vicar of Christ…you get this obscenity of tens of thousands of different denominations.
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It is the CC legacy also of sorts, as not found with the Orthodox.

Blessings
 
Louie1983 said:
Thank you for sharing the wonderfull variety and richness of diversity that is in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church.

A fantastic example of how the richness and culture involved yet still proclaiming the one Truth since Jesus founded The Catholic church.

👍
Click to expand...
Hi L ,

I love that rebuttal.

A bit like Judaism, bringing forth the One true Messiah, with one unified magisterium and doctrines ? (I am certainly not questioning that Judaism perfectly brought forth the Messiah).

Maybe the Body is richer in some ways with the added diversity of P’s to the previous Catholic/Orthodox mix

Blessings
 
Tomdstone said:
You’re welcome. Do you see that differences like this do not argue for the existence of different denominations?
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Ditto on the equally good rebuttal.

Just take this forum for example. I think most of the time here iron sharpens iron. Can you imagine if the dialogue was only Catholic/Orthodox ? Not as sharp without us ( and we without them) I would think.

Blessings
 
benhur said:
Right a unifying factor, just like all Protestants have a unifying factor also, they are all not Catholic or submit to the authority of the Roman pontiff.
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Does this fit into the essentials or non-essentials column? :D…and will you be answering for all of Protestantism?

Peace!!!
 
phil19034 said:
A denomination has it’s own theology, hierarchy, and/or authority.

The Catholic Church has one hierarchy & authority, hence one denomination.

The Eastern Orthodox has one theology and authority, hence one denomination.

The Oriental Orthodox have one theology one authority, hence one denomination.

The mainline protestant churches have several different theologies, hierarchies, & authorities.

A Baptist Conference has a loose authority, as belonging to the conferences, so you can make the argument that they each conference is one denomination.

The non-denominational churches and non-conference affiliated Baptist churches pretty much all have their own individual hierarchy & authority per building and sometimes their own unique theology. So they are single church denominations.

It really comes down to authority. For each different ultimate human authority (whether a person, council, synod, conference, etc); each authority equals a different denomination.
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This is a good definition for denomination - one that answers to the human authority which necessarily means it has same doctrines.

A denomination is a church organization that exercises some sort of authority over the local churches that comprise it. Examples of denominations are Southern Baptist, Episcopal, Wesleyan, Methodist, etc. Non-denominational churches go by many different names and hold to a wide variety of beliefs.
 
adf417 said:
Does this fit into the essentials or non-essentials column? :D…and will you be answering for all of Protestantism?

Peace!!!
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Is the playing of music in church essential or not essential?
 
Tomdstone said:
You’re welcome. Do you see that differences like this do not argue for the existence of different denominations?
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LOL, Yeh OK.

The “Differences” you speak of are of discipline/traditons that in no way go against church teaching or dogma.

The Differences between Protestant denominations where curcial doctrines and are changed and denied is a completely different story.
 
benhur said:
Hi L ,

I love that rebuttal.

A bit like Judaism, bringing forth the One true Messiah, with one unified magisterium and doctrines ? (I am certainly not questioning that Judaism perfectly brought forth the Messiah).

Maybe the Body is richer in some ways with the added diversity of P’s to the previous Catholic/Orthodox mix
Blessings
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Hi B,

Diversity: Yes. By diversity I mean different customs and traditions in the church yet presenting the same universal truth that is found in The Catholic Church.

Denial of doctrine or rejection of doctrine revealed to us by Christ through his Holy Catholic church on the other hand…
 
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