5 out of 33,000 Saved

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Please don’t. 😦
This site has little or no credibility. I recently received an infraction for stating the truth. Michael Francis told me that even though I stated the truth about ancient popes fathering iligitimate children, it was UNCHARITBLE toward pontiffs. Ya see… the standard is not truth on this site. You cannot look at what you post and say, "well, I know I’m speaking truth and presenting it in a discussion and feel safe. You little dictators like MF telling you that you’re better of not presenting truth, or just plain lying. Isn’t that anti-Christian? Isn’t that anti-Christ? It’s subjugation to little king moderators that are far from being Christian. Jesus always professed truth. People like Michael Francis hide behind lies. I fully suspect I’ll be banned and this post deleted, but I stand on truth. Truth that Michael Francis with his ninja sword admitted to.
 
This site has little or no credibility. I recently received an infraction for stating the truth. ------ told me that even though I stated the truth about ancient popes fathering iligitimate children, it was UNCHARITBLE toward pontiffs. Ya see… the standard is not truth on this site. You cannot look at what you post and say, "well, I know I’m speaking truth and presenting it in a discussion and feel safe. You little dictators like MF telling you that you’re better of not presenting truth, or just plain lying. Isn’t that anti-Christian? Isn’t that anti-Christ? It’s subjugation to little king moderators that are far from being Christian. Jesus always professed truth. People like -------- hide behind lies. I fully suspect I’ll be banned and this post deleted, but I stand on truth. Truth that --------- with his ninja sword admitted to.
I am sorry that you feel that way. The mods have all been very kind to me. Edit your post not to mention them by name. You are kind of blindsiding ------ Being a mod is not easy, I can assure you (I am one at another site). If you have a beef with him, PM him.

Edit his name out of your post, though. In charity 🙂
 
I was a bit curious myself…so I did a google search, FWIW.

unitypublishing.com/Newsletter/SavedCatholics.htm
catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/ecumenism/fewsave.htm

Now, mind, I don’t believe in a hell…or a heaven as you see it…so, don’t matter to me either way, but, hey, if’n you want to have a spot in heaven, you’d want to encourage people to mess up so you have a better chance at getting in there?😃
God knows and loves you; you will return the compliments sooner or later. Better sooner 😃
 
I always wondered about that phrase from Our Lady of Fatima about souls going to hell because they have no one to pray for them? That confused me.:confused:
I am a little stronger than confused.
Catholic “visions”
Yeshua (pbwh) being sacrificed is insufficient with these souls?
People who do good things in secret so few know of them and have no one to pray for them go to hell.
I guess if your famous you would have more chance of getting out of hell.
But now 5 out of 33k are saved.
But hang on a priest in our parish says its really rare that any one does not get into heaven.
Our pastoral associate who is a nun says Buddhists are going to heaven because they are good with the second commandment.
I had a Vincentian president have a vision from Fredrick Oznman, i obliged him so he could gently see the false of his vision.

Why dont Catholics have the credibility they used to well look at the visions the hate some here have for their enemies and quickly one sees,

Those who have are given more and those who have not it is taken from.

Maybe we should let Our Father do what He does and does not need us to do for Him and get on with personally trying to be more like Yeshua (pbwh)
 
Maybe we could all use a little bit of scruples. So hopefully this revelation can be the kick in the butt that most of us need to take God a bit more seriously. I am not pointing fingers, believe me I include myself big time in this. What did that poll say a few years ago? Only 44% or so of Catholics believe that the Eucharist is the true body of Christ? How many of us don’t think it is a sin to miss Mass, then receive the Body of Christ w/out confession? How many of us go against the Church teachings concerning contraceptives, birth control, divorce/remarriage, abortion, pornography, lieing, cheating, being ashamed of God in public? How many of us put off confession until “next Sunday” when it’s only Tuesday and we’ve sinned? And that is only those of us practicing Catholics! What about the Billions of others who scorn and persecute His Church? Maybe 5 out of 33,000 is a little low, but I get the feeling that the number is closer to 5 than it is to 33,000. No, I am not judging people to hell, I am merely observing (and sadly partaking in) sin. Scrupulocity has nothing to do with it…we are in a terrible state of being right now (in my opinion of course).
👍
 
I don’t know why this number 5/33,000 should surprise anyone. Christ himself said that many are called but few answer. In the parable of the seed it was only 25% of those who heard the Word who grew sufficiently to bear fruit (be saved).

Consider first of all that St Bernard died in 1153, so it this is the time of the vision, how many people had even heard the Gospel. How many of those 33,000 who died at that hour were even Christian - in the year 1153??

Then, of those who were Chrisitan, how many were only “nominal” christians. How many of these died with unrepented mortal sin on their souls.
JohnSC pointed out the state of many - many christians today, living in a state of false confidence, picking and choosing what to believe etc. Add to this the huge numbers of people who are non-believers and even “anti-believers”, and it would seem that the line at the gates of hell is quite long.

Only God knows how many will ultimately be saved, but the idea of only 5 out of 33,000 who die, worldwide, at any given hour does not seem all that far-fetched to me.

Peace
James
 
Originally Posted by StTommyMore
I can think of no better way to encourage scrupulosity than to repeat this story…
Originally Posted by distracted
scrupulosity beats Hell by a good country mile…
Here we go again. :eek:

And now a word on scrupulocity…

The problem with scrupulosity is one of not properly understanding the message of Christ and of the Church. It is one of placing too much emphasis on “legalities”, “rituals”, and “procedures” etc. at the expense of understanding the underlying principles upon which these other things are based. This is what gets people into trouble.

Christ does not seek those who “obey” some canon of Laws. He came to replace such obedience. Christ seeks those who will have the single law of Love impressed upon their hearts. From this then, obedience to all else becomes a matter of course - a natural outflowing of that Love - for all the law, commandments, etc spring from that Love.

Can this story engender “scrupulocity” in someone?
Certainly.
Is this a bad thing?
Depends.
Is this scrupulocity focused on healthy examination of what we are doing instead of what we should be doing? Does it cause one to dig more deeply into things spiritual and to better understand the core principles of faith?
If so then such scrupulocity is both helpful and indeed necessary.
However -
If such scupulocity is focused only on the externals, of trying to do everything precsiely correct, meeting all the “requirements” of the “rules and regulations” etc… crossing all the T’s and dotting all the I’s, then such scupulocity is not healthy for it, like the pharasitic practices of the NT days, it looks only at the outside and not at the heart.

Peace
James
 
I think it is important that we are never too self assured that we we are definitely going to heaven because this is dangerous. It says in the Bible to “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” We can all get to heaven, but it requires us to die in a state of grace, having repented of all mortal sin. Many Catholics today never go to Confession and do not even believe in the need for Confession to a priest. Also, many people have lost the sense of sin and think that all “good people” will go to heaven, and many people do not even believe that hell exists, so it is a safe bet that people who don’t believe that hell exists will not be too worried about going there, and will probably not do the things they need to do to avoid going there. That said, we should have faith and confidence in God’s love and mercy if we are sorry for our sins and confess them. I have a booklet which you might be interested in reading called The Father Speaks to His Children which contains the only private revelation made personally by God the Father and recognized as authentic by the Church after ten years of investigation. In this booklet, God talks about his incredible love for us.

I quote from the book: “Men believe Me to be a terrifying God Who is going to cast all mankind into hell. What a great surprise it will be when, at the end of time, they see so many souls they believed lost, enjoying eternal bliss among the elect!”

The book also contains this story (remember this is God the Father speaking): "I will give you an example of a soul who is facing sudden death; this soul has always been for me like the Prodigal Son. I lavished benefits on this soul, but he wasted all these benefits, all these gifts that his most loving Father provided for him. More than this, he offended me gravely. I waited for him, I followed him everywhere, I gave him more favours: health and wealth, that I caused to result from his work, to the point of superfluity. At times My providence granted him further gifts. He therefore had plenty of everything but he saw it all in the sad light of his vices, and his whole life was a fabric of errors because of habitual mortal sin. But My love never tired. I followed him all the same. I loved him and, most of all, in spite of his rebuffs, I was happy to live patiently close to him, in the hope that maybe one day he would respond to My love and return to Me, His Father and Savior. At last his final day is approaching: I have sent him an illness in order to make him come to his senses and return to Me, his Father. Time passes and My poor son - he is 74 - is at his last hour. I am still there, as always: I talk to him with even more kindness than usual. I persevere, I call My chosen ones and ask them to pray for him, so that he may ask for the forgiveness I am offering him…And now, before breathing his last, he opens his eyes, admits his errors and understands how far he has strayed from the true path that leads to Me. He recovers his senses and in a weak voice, which none of those around him can hear, he says: “My God, I can now see how great Your love for me has been and I have offended You continually with such a bad life. I never thought about You, my Father and Saviour. Now You see everything and I beg forgiveness for all this evil which You see in me and which I now discern in my confusion. I love you, my Father and my Saviour! He died at that very moment and now here he is, before Me. I judge him with a paternal love: He called me Father and he is saved. He will spend a period of time in the place of expiation, and after this he will be happy for all eternity.”

I ordered a bunch of these booklets from Mary’s Call (their website is www.maryscall.com ) and you can order them for a donation. The person I spoke to who works there said they are not allowed to sell them but are supposed to give them away for donations (I think he said this was by order of the Vatican, because this is a revelation that is approved by the Church and this way the message can be spread to as many people as possible.)
I checked out the Mary’s Call website and didn’t see that “The Father Speaks to His Children” listed. Do you know where I could find a copy?
 
I always wondered about that phrase from Our Lady of Fatima about souls going to hell because they have no one to pray for them? That confused me.:confused:

Does that mean that we should pray for people here on earth while they are still alive to prevent them from going to hell? Because would it not be too late to pray for them after they died if they were falling into hell “like snowflakes”? Oh, and I love St. Gertrude’s prayer! I say it everyday…throughout the day.🙂
yes, we should pray for people while they are still alive, I think that is what Our Lady meant… but if we know people who have died, we should definitely pray for them too and offer Masses for them.
I think it is important that we are never too self assured that we we are definitely going to heaven because this is dangerous. It says in the Bible to “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” We can all get to heaven, but it requires us to die in a state of grace, having repented of all mortal sin. Many Catholics today never go to Confession and do not even believe in the need for Confession to a priest. Also, many people have lost the sense of sin and think that all “good people” will go to heaven, and many people do not even believe that hell exists, so it is a safe bet that people who don’t believe that hell exists will not be too worried about going there, and will probably not do the things they need to do to avoid going there. That said, we should have faith and confidence in God’s love and mercy if we are sorry for our sins and confess them. I have a booklet which you might be interested in reading called The Father Speaks to His Children which contains the only private revelation made personally by God the Father and recognized as authentic by the Church after ten years of investigation. In this booklet, God talks about his incredible love for us.

I quote from the book: “Men believe Me to be a terrifying God Who is going to cast all mankind into hell. What a great surprise it will be when, at the end of time, they see so many souls they believed lost, enjoying eternal bliss among the elect!”

The book also contains this story (remember this is God the Father speaking): "I will give you an example of a soul who is facing sudden death; this soul has always been for me like the Prodigal Son. I lavished benefits on this soul, but he wasted all these benefits, all these gifts that his most loving Father provided for him. More than this, he offended me gravely. I waited for him, I followed him everywhere, I gave him more favours: health and wealth, that I caused to result from his work, to the point of superfluity. At times My providence granted him further gifts. He therefore had plenty of everything but he saw it all in the sad light of his vices, and his whole life was a fabric of errors because of habitual mortal sin. But My love never tired. I followed him all the same. I loved him and, most of all, in spite of his rebuffs, I was happy to live patiently close to him, in the hope that maybe one day he would respond to My love and return to Me, His Father and Savior. At last his final day is approaching: I have sent him an illness in order to make him come to his senses and return to Me, his Father. Time passes and My poor son - he is 74 - is at his last hour. I am still there, as always: I talk to him with even more kindness than usual. I persevere, I call My chosen ones and ask them to pray for him, so that he may ask for the forgiveness I am offering him…And now, before breathing his last, he opens his eyes, admits his errors and understands how far he has strayed from the true path that leads to Me. He recovers his senses and in a weak voice, which none of those around him can hear, he says: “My God, I can now see how great Your love for me has been and I have offended You continually with such a bad life. I never thought about You, my Father and Saviour. Now You see everything and I beg forgiveness for all this evil which You see in me and which I now discern in my confusion. I love you, my Father and my Saviour! He died at that very moment and now here he is, before Me. I judge him with a paternal love: He called me Father and he is saved. He will spend a period of time in the place of expiation, and after this he will be happy for all eternity.”

I ordered a bunch of these booklets from Mary’s Call (their website is www.maryscall.com ) and you can order them for a donation. The person I spoke to who works there said they are not allowed to sell them but are supposed to give them away for donations (I think he said this was by order of the Vatican, because this is a revelation that is approved by the Church and this way the message can be spread to as many people as possible.)
wow that is very interesting! I like how purgatory was mentioned as well…
 
Thanks to those who responded to my question.🙂

I worry about my family’s souls (and of course, mine!) I found the St. Bridget prayer over a year ago and have been faithfully reciting it everyday. It has several promises but 2 of them really jumped out at me:
  1. The soul who prays them can chose 3 others whom Jesus will then keep in a state of grace sufficient to become holy.
  2. No-one in the four successive generations of the soul who prays them will be lost.
This is the first prayer that I have come across that actually has promises regarding someone other than the one praying them.
are the promises approved by the Church?
I don’t know why this number 5/33,000 should surprise anyone. Christ himself said that many are called but few answer. In the parable of the seed it was only 25% of those who heard the Word who grew sufficiently to bear fruit (be saved).

Consider first of all that St Bernard died in 1153, so it this is the time of the vision, how many people had even heard the Gospel. How many of those 33,000 who died at that hour were even Christian - in the year 1153??

Then, of those who were Chrisitan, how many were only “nominal” christians. How many of these died with unrepented mortal sin on their souls.
JohnSC pointed out the state of many - many christians today, living in a state of false confidence, picking and choosing what to believe etc. Add to this the huge numbers of people who are non-believers and even “anti-believers”, and it would seem that the line at the gates of hell is quite long.

Only God knows how many will ultimately be saved, but the idea of only 5 out of 33,000 who die, worldwide, at any given hour does not seem all that far-fetched to me.

Peace
James
that’s a good point…
 
If the average really is 5/33,000, then why would God give St. Faustina the message of Divine Mercy?

I remind you, My daughter, that as often as you hear the clock strike the third hour, immerse yourself completely in My mercy, adoring and glorifying it; invoke its omnipotence for the whole world, and particularly for poor sinners; for at that moment mercy was opened wide for every soul. In this hour you can obtain everything for yourself and for others for the asking; it was the hour of grace for the whole world - mercy triumphed over justice… (1572)

If so few people go to Heaven, is mercy still triumphing over justice?

I know that Christ said that we must enter through the narrow gate, but my priest said He meant that the narrow gate is the ways that aren’t of this world (for example, media pressure). To enter through the narrow gate we must ignore what is seen as normal (such as saying ‘oh my God!’ or trying to justify contraception.) He didn’t mean narrow in the sense that not many people make it.
 
If the average really is 5/33,000, then why would God give St. Faustina the message of Divine Mercy?

I remind you, My daughter, that as often as you hear the clock strike the third hour, immerse yourself completely in My mercy, adoring and glorifying it; invoke its omnipotence for the whole world, and particularly for poor sinners; for at that moment mercy was opened wide for every soul. In this hour you can obtain everything for yourself and for others for the asking; it was the hour of grace for the whole world - mercy triumphed over justice… (1572)

If so few people go to Heaven, is mercy still triumphing over justice?

I know that Christ said that we must enter through the narrow gate, but my priest said He meant that the narrow gate is the ways that aren’t of this world (for example, media pressure). To enter through the narrow gate we must ignore what is seen as normal (such as saying ‘oh my God!’ or trying to justify contraception.) He didn’t mean narrow in the sense that not many people make it.
I have not heard that interpretation before, and it does kind of make sense, but Jesus said that very few would find it.
 
I have not heard that interpretation before, and it does kind of make sense, but Jesus said that very few would find it.
That’s what I was thinking. I asked him about non-Christians and he gave the example of the sinner who was crucified with Jesus who asked for Jesus to remember him and Jesus said that he would be with Him in paradise. He believes that non-Christians are given the chance to accept the truth and repent when they die and will be spiritually prepared in Purgatory. He gave the impression that he believes that only people who reject the truth, even when they meet him will not enter purgatory or Heaven.

Do you think priests mind you asking about this when you go to confession?
 
That’s what I was thinking. I asked him about non-Christians and he gave the example of the sinner who was crucified with Jesus who asked for Jesus to remember him and Jesus said that he would be with Him in paradise. He believes that non-Christians are given the chance to accept the truth and repent when they die and will be spiritually prepared in Purgatory. He gave the impression that he believes that only people who reject the truth, even when they meet him will not enter purgatory or Heaven.

Do you think priests mind you asking about this when you go to confession?
The Church hasn’t dogmatically spoken on this. We know that there is some way that non-Christians can be saved, because God is just and merciful, bit at the same time what this way is has never been revealed. Instead of asking during confession, I would schedule an appointment to discuss this at length, out of consideration for other penitents.
 
Do you think priests mind you asking about this when you go to confession?
The Church hasn’t dogmatically spoken on this. We know that there is some way that non-Christians can be saved, because God is just and merciful, bit at the same time what this way is has never been revealed. Instead of asking during confession, I would schedule an appointment to discuss this at length, out of consideration for other penitents.
Confession is definitely NOT the time to be engaging in these sorts of discussions with the Priest. StTommyMore is absolutely correct: make an appointment with the Priest to discuss this stuff.
 
I don’t know why this number 5/33,000 should surprise anyone. Christ himself said that many are called but few answer. In the parable of the seed it was only 25% of those who heard the Word who grew sufficiently to bear fruit (be saved).

Consider first of all that St Bernard died in 1153, so it this is the time of the vision, how many people had even heard the Gospel. How many of those 33,000 who died at that hour were even Christian - in the year 1153??

Then, of those who were Chrisitan, how many were only “nominal” christians. How many of these died with unrepented mortal sin on their souls.
JohnSC pointed out the state of many - many christians today, living in a state of false confidence, picking and choosing what to believe etc. Add to this the huge numbers of people who are non-believers and even “anti-believers”, and it would seem that the line at the gates of hell is quite long.

Only God knows how many will ultimately be saved, but the idea of only 5 out of 33,000 who die, worldwide, at any given hour does not seem all that far-fetched to me.

Peace
James
gee… you are worse than ME… 😃

some posters here probably htink i am the Hell fire & Brimstone poster… cuz i am always harping about how difficult it is to get into Heaven… but now you have suprassed me… 😃 cuz i really was surprised by the figures when i 1st heard them… but the longer i live… uh… well, things change…

eveywhere i look i see: selfishness, apathy toward the sufferings of others, vanity, greed, sexual impurity, treating people like sex objects, using & abusing others, and i could go on and on… I frankly don’t see many people living for the Lord… who have HIM as the center of their lives… True, i don’t know many people… but hey, that’s one reason i DONT know many people… i stay away from peple cuz most of them are EVIL… once you get to know them… True, i have been in some really bad situations that have scarred me…made me cynical and wary… but still…i haven’t found many “angels” in the world… meaning those who love Jesus a whole lot…

I don’t expect perfect… No, not hardly… How can i expect perfect when i am not perfect either? and yet… i dont even find people who… well, whatever… you get my drift…
 
gee… you are worse than ME… 😃

some posters here probably htink i am the Hell fire & Brimstone poster… cuz i am always harping about how difficult it is to get into Heaven… but now you have suprassed me… 😃 cuz i really was surprised by the figures when i 1st heard them… but the longer i live… uh… well, things change…

eveywhere i look i see: selfishness, apathy toward the sufferings of others, vanity, greed, sexual impurity, treating people like sex objects, using & abusing others, and i could go on and on… I frankly don’t see many people living for the Lord… who have HIM as the center of their lives… True, i don’t know many people… but hey, that’s one reason i DONT know many people… i stay away from peple cuz most of them are EVIL… once you get to know them… True, i have been in some really bad situations that have scarred me…made me cynical and wary… but still…i haven’t found many “angels” in the world… meaning those who love Jesus a whole lot…

I don’t expect perfect… No, not hardly… How can i expect perfect when i am not perfect either? and yet… i dont even find people who… well, whatever… you get my drift…
:banghead:
 
If this is the average, what chance has a hot tempered jerk like me have of going to Heaven? 😦
 
And now a word on scrupulocity…

The problem with scrupulosity is one of not properly understanding the message of Christ and of the Church. It is one of placing too much emphasis on “legalities”, “rituals”, and “procedures” etc. at the expense of understanding the underlying principles upon which these other things are based. This is what gets people into trouble.

Christ does not seek those who “obey” some canon of Laws. He came to replace such obedience. Christ seeks those who will have the single law of Love impressed upon their hearts. From this then, obedience to all else becomes a matter of course - a natural outflowing of that Love - for all the law, commandments, etc spring from that Love.

Can this story engender “scrupulocity” in someone?
Certainly.
Is this a bad thing?
Depends.
Is this scrupulocity focused on healthy examination of what we are doing instead of what we should be doing? Does it cause one to dig more deeply into things spiritual and to better understand the core principles of faith?
If so then such scrupulocity is both helpful and indeed necessary.
However -
If such scupulocity is focused only on the externals, of trying to do everything precsiely correct, meeting all the “requirements” of the “rules and regulations” etc… crossing all the T’s and dotting all the I’s, then such scupulocity is not healthy for it, like the pharasitic practices of the NT days, it looks only at the outside and not at the heart.

Peace
James
Love Shmuv… :rolleyes:

Humans dont know the 1st blasted thing about love… except that christians DO… but they don’t know how to SHOW it very well… and so… human love is worthless…

Jesus said that not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law… He came not to ablish the law but to fulfill it…

We can’t violate god’s laws and get into Heaven… (Yes, i know you didn’t exactly say that…)
 
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