5 out of 33,000 Saved

[GuitarPlayer]

If God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that all who believe in Him may have eternal life…what the hell did he create man for to send 99.985 percent to eternal damnation. Not a god I believe in. Perhaps some of elitists here take pleasure in their misguided…ummmm…ummmm deception. Who is the great deceiver anyway?

St Ignatius of Loyola once said that he knew of no Sermons more useful than those on hell. ( “the end of the present World” FAther charles Arminjon)

St Theresa of Avila encouraged her nuns to "go to hell " in spirit and thought so as to avoid going there in reality after death.

Are you calling me an elitist deceiver for starting this thread?

 

[Samson01]

Considering the whole human history and the times we live in, I’m not surprised, but only God knows for sure.

 

[Monica4316]

According to these elitists, there is NO salvation outside the Catholic Church. Your Eastern Orthodox author is misguided according to these people. Only they can go to heaven. Only the chosen few elitists on this forum. Take the time to figure out who they are. But when it comes to them, you can’t use other Christian literature or authors. They are heretics worthy of nothing other than hell. Do you think I’m kidding? Check it out.

I hoped that you would respond to what the post was actually about…

this needs to be understood in the right way. The Church teaching is that non Catholics who are saved, are saved because of invinsible ignorance, and still through the Church… they have a link to the Church either through faith in Christ or their Baptism… and God uses that. God can save anyone who turns to Him. But there is only one Church. Catholics are in full communion with it, non Catholics are not in full communion but are still linked to it in ways. The Orthodox share many things, from doctrine to Sacraments to Mary to Apostolic Succession…

in other words - “no salvation outside the Church” doesn’t mean that only Catholics go to Heaven. It means that salvation is found in the Church, but those who are imperfectly united to it can be saved through that same link, if they are invinsibly ignorant or never learned enough about the Catholic faith in order to accept it. God will judge each based on the circumstances they were in.

the quote I posted could just as well be written by a Catholic… there’s nothing there contrary to Church teaching, as far as I can tell. So what do you think about it?

 

[GuitarPlayer]

I hoped that you would respond to what the post was actually about…

this needs to be understood in the right way. The Church teaching is that non Catholics who are saved, are saved because of invinsible ignorance, and still through the Church… they have a link to the Church either through faith in Christ or their Baptism… and God uses that. God can save anyone who turns to Him. But there is only one Church. Catholics are in full communion with it, non Catholics are not in full communion but are still linked to it in ways. The Orthodox share many things, from doctrine to Sacraments to Mary to Apostolic Succession…

in other words - “no salvation outside the Church” doesn’t mean that only Catholics go to Heaven. It means that salvation is found in the Church, but those who are imperfectly united to it can be saved through that same link, if they are invinsibly ignorant or never learned enough about the Catholic faith in order to accept it. God will judge each based on the circumstances they were in.

the quote I posted could just as well be written by a Catholic… there’s nothing there contrary to Church teaching, as far as I can tell. So what do you think about it?

Thanks for the explanation

 

[PAboy57]

Let’s see…your chance are: 0.015%. Given that many try and fail…why bother trying if you believe this bull?

The point is we have to do better and lead a life acceptable to God. If we do that then we will gain access to the Kingdom of Heaven.

There is much evil in the world so surround yourself with as many God loving and fearing people you can to avoid the bad influence. Visit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, attend Mass, go to confession, receive The Eucharist as often as possible and donate time and treasure you can afford. Doing this as a child of God will provide eternal life.

Open your heart and mind to the Lord and ask for His help. It also doesn’t hurt to pray to our Blessed Mother for her intercession on our behalf. I’m confident that if we do these things we will have eternal life in Heaven with God.

Take care everyone.

 

[GuitarPlayer]

The point is we have to do better and lead a life acceptable to God. If we do that then we will gain access to the Kingdom of Heaven.

There is much evil in the world so surround yourself with as many God loving and fearing people you can to avoid the bad influence. Visit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, attend Mass, go to confession, receive The Eucharist as often as possible and donate time and treasure you can afford. Doing this as a child of God will provide eternal life.

Open your heart and mind to the Lord and ask for His help. It also doesn’t hurt to pray to our Blessed Mother for her intercession on our behalf. I’m confident that if we do these things we will have eternal life in Heaven with God.

Take care everyone.

Amen to that, great post.

I’d like to add also that salvation is simple: If you die in a state of mortal sin, you’re going to hell, if you die in the state of grace, you’re going to heaven.
So shouldnt we spend much effort avoiding sin and doing everything possible to overcome mortal sin?

 

[TheQuestioner]

Again…you guys realize that this statistic is often viewed in the right way. It’s not that so many tried to hard and out of 33,000 only 5 made the cut (in reality no one would make the cut), but that out of 33,000 only 5 tried the best they could with their whole heart.

If you view this statistic the right way then it wont seem scary. Sad maybe, but not scary.

 

[GuitarPlayer]

If God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that all who believe in Him may have eternal life…what the hell did he create man for to send 99.985 percent to eternal damnation. Not a god I believe in. Perhaps some of elitists here take pleasure in their misguided…ummmm…ummmm deception. Who is the great deceiver anyway?

God didn’t create any man for damnation. Man chooses damnation, by choosing mortal sin, and knowing the result of mortal sin is damnation. ( i speak of catholics, dont know how it works with non catholics). God doesnt want most catholics to choose damnation but thats the reality.

 

[JRKH]

Again…you guys realize that this statistic is often viewed in the right way. It’s not that so many tried to hard and out of 33,000 only 5 made the cut (in reality no one would make the cut), but that out of 33,000 only 5 tried the best they could with their whole heart.

If you view this statistic the right way then it wont seem scary. Sad maybe, but not scary.

Well stated.

It has to be remembered that this story is set in the 1150’s AD.
How many of the 33,000 were “heathens” who never heard the Gospel?
After subtracting that very large number, lets consider the parable of the seed.
Group A: Hears the Gospel and rejects it outright. (trample underfoot)
Group B: Hears the Gospel and accepts it but have no “Root” (staying pwer) and wither.
Group C: Hears the Gospel and accepts it but then it is choked out by the cares of the world (probably the largest group)
Group D: Hears the Gospel and accepts it and then grows to bear fruit.

So - in 1150 something, of the 33,000 we must first subtract, at least the overwhelming majority of, those who had never heard the Gospel, then we must subtract those who fall into groups A, B, and C above. Thus Christ’s words about “many are called but few answer”.

Peace
James

 

[nsper7]

Well stated.

It has to be remembered that this story is set in the 1150’s AD.
How many of the 33,000 were “heathens” who never heard the Gospel?
After subtracting that very large number, lets consider the parable of the seed.
Group A: Hears the Gospel and rejects it outright. (trample underfoot)
Group B: Hears the Gospel and accepts it but have no “Root” (staying pwer) and wither.
Group C: Hears the Gospel and accepts it but then it is choked out by the cares of the world (probably the largest group)
Group D: Hears the Gospel and accepts it and then grows to bear fruit.

So - in 1150 something, of the 33,000 we must first subtract, at least the overwhelming majority of, those who had never heard the Gospel, then we must subtract those who fall into groups A, B, and C above. Thus Christ’s words about “many are called but few answer”.

Peace
James

Would Group C be the group that would end up being Saved but through lengthy Purgatory? After all, they’d fall into the group St. Paul talks where all their works are as stubble and they are saved as if by fire.

 

[JRKH]

Would Group C be the group that would end up being Saved but through lengthy Purgatory? After all, they’d fall into the group St. Paul talks where all their works are as stubble and they are saved as if by fire.

I do not believe so. In the parable, the only group to bear fruit is the one that falls on good soil and only those who bear fruit will be saved. Those in groups B and C do not bear fruit. They do not persevere.

What St Paul is refering to is having our works tested as if by fire, and any that is not pure or of God will be burnt up. That work (fruits) built on the foundation (of Christ) will survive. That work not buiilt on the foundation will be burnt up.

Peace
James

 

[cathdoki]

The point is we have to do better and lead a life acceptable to God. If we do that then we will gain access to the Kingdom of Heaven.

There is much evil in the world so surround yourself with as many God loving and fearing people you can to avoid the bad influence. Visit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, attend Mass, go to confession, receive The Eucharist as often as possible and donate time and treasure you can afford. Doing this as a child of God will provide eternal life.

Open your heart and mind to the Lord and ask for His help. It also doesn’t hurt to pray to our Blessed Mother for her intercession on our behalf. I’m confident that if we do these things we will have eternal life in Heaven with God.

Take care everyone.

Are you trying to say that only 0.015% really try?

 

[saveusfromhell]

anyway it’s a good enough reason to give all your family a greeen scapular and say the prayer for them every day

 

[Samson01]

Seems like after reading a thread like this, some my find themselves thinking, “are they one of the five”. What is that called again?

 

[beehumble]

I doubt this story or at least think for sure it points to an anomaly for that one specific hour. 5/33000 is 0.01%. Which is one one hundredth of 1 percent (1/100 of 1 percent), which means 99.9 percent never make it.

Jesus came into the world not to condemn, but to save. If that is all He saves, then maybe He shouldn’t have bothered. I do not believe my God is such an impotent God. So the number has to be an anomaly. If that numbers holds true, then we are the ones who have faith in vain along the lines of St. Paul. We are the fools for trying to live a life in Christ when 1/100 of 1 percent would mean it is just about 100 percent impossible to do.

Be wary of such stories, is all I got to say. If it were true it would not make me more scrupulous - it would make me just simply give up trying, for it is nearly impossible then to make it to heaven.

My God is not such an impotent God, my God is a God of Mercy. Look at the cross, one thief went, one didn’t - that right there is at least 50 percent, but I like to believe it is even higher.

God bless.

 

[cathdoki]

Seems like after reading a thread like this, some my find themselves thinking, “are they one of the five”. What is that called again?

1 of the 5? Try 5 of 33,000. That’s much different.

 

[GuitarPlayer]

I doubt this story or at least think for sure it points to an anomaly for that one specific hour. 5/33000 is 0.01%. Which is one one hundredth of 1 percent (1/100 of 1 percent), which means 99.9 percent never make it.

Jesus came into the world not to condemn, but to save.

Be wary of such stories, is all I got to say. If it were true it would not make me more scrupulous - it would make me just simply give up trying, for it is nearly impossible then to make it to heaven.

God bless.

I was in church today and was amazed on hearing this scripture that seems to address this post.

Someone said to him, (Jesus) ‘Sir, will there be only a few saved?’ He said to them, ‘Try your best to enter by the narrow door, because, I tell you, many will try to enter and will not succeed.

The priest noted that Jesus told the man to “try you best”. Jesus doesnt answer directly. Instead he gives guidance on our efforts. He says many will try but fail. So the point is to try your best, as opposed to just trying. Also, Jesus calls it a narrow door, which implies, it is difficult. The fact that many will trry and not succeed also supports the notion that it is difficult to get to heaven. So, many who try wont make it, not to mention the many more who dont try at all. 50% seems a bit optimistic, don’t you think

God bless

 

[PAboy57]

Are you trying to say that only 0.015% really try?

No. I’m saying let’s try and improve the odds regardless of what the percent is.

Hope we all can improve the odds. Take care and God Bless you and everyone else trying.

 

[dailey]

I was in church today and was amazed on hearing this scripture that seems to address this post.

Me too!! I love the way my priest explained it. He said there are 3 types of people…those who are “familair” with Jesus, those who are “fans” and lastly, those who “follow” him.

In the scriptures, when Jesus told the people outside…“I do not know you”, and the people responded “We ate and drank in your company”…the priest told us to remember that did NOT mean they *followed" him, simply that they were “familair” with him.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I always was under the assumption that these people were “friends” with Jesus since they ate and drank in his company. But now I realize that many people fall into the “familair” category. Like my priest said, that simply is not enough…

 

[grandfather]

I doubt this story or at least think for sure it points to an anomaly for that one specific hour. 5/33000 is 0.01%. Which is one one hundredth of 1 percent (1/100 of 1 percent), which means 99.9 percent never make it.

Jesus came into the world not to condemn, but to save. If that is all He saves, then maybe He shouldn’t have bothered. I do not believe my God is such an impotent God. So the number has to be an anomaly. If that numbers holds true, then we are the ones who have faith in vain along the lines of St. Paul. We are the fools for trying to live a life in Christ when 1/100 of 1 percent would mean it is just about 100 percent impossible to do.

Be wary of such stories, is all I got to say. If it were true it would not make me more scrupulous - it would make me just simply give up trying, for it is nearly impossible then to make it to heaven.

My God is not such an impotent God, my God is a God of Mercy. Look at the cross, one thief went, one didn’t - that right there is at least 50 percent, but I like to believe it is even higher.

God bless.

Awhile back a woman posted and said she was a Jew whose mother was mentally ill. The mother was disowned by her family as a teenager and became a drug addict and prostitute. The poster was conceived by one of her mother’s clients and never knew her father. The mother is dead. The poster became Catholic and stopped posting. I pray for her and her mother. It has been a long time. I thought probably no one cares about this prostitute’s soul, other than her daughter, and she probably died with no one to pray for her. I hope she has received mercy and is in eternal light.

If .01% of souls made by God to know and love Him for all eternity end up in heaven, only a few great souls like Bernard of Clairveau and Vincent Ferrer attain heaven and the vast majority of the rest of us wretches are damned, my prayers for this poor soul and most others I pray for probably are in vain. My hopes for my own soul are as well.

This story, call it the .01%er will surely tempt most people either to scrupulocity or despair. Both of these are sins. Try as you will, you will never please God, scrupulous soul, or give up in despair and lose all hope, because you have as good a chance of winning the lottery as ending up in heaven.

If God who is all powerful, made billions of souls for the purpose of knowing Him and loving Him eternally, knowing the vast majority would not only not attain the destiny He made them for, but would suffer eternally, I don’t think I want to be with this kind of person. In fact I can not imagine something more cruel for an omnipotent omniscient being to do. How or why would I place my sure hope in such a being, or trust Him?

I would rather spend eternity with a drug addict prostitute who suffered mental illness and was cast off by her family than such a god. I shed tears for her in this life and hope to meet her in the next.

But God is not cruel. The choice for us is not between loving the 30,000 or 5. It is not between the vast majority of human souls, who are sinners like us, or God. He commands us to love them, but I don’t need the command.

There are two modern prayers taught to us by heaven. One is the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. “…we offer you the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity… in atonement for our sins, and thise of the WHOLE world”. The other was added to the Rosary in this very dire age. “… O my Jesus, forgive us,…save us…lead ALL SOULS, to heaven, especially those most in need of…”

We plead for all souls and were taught to do so by heaven. Will heaven deny our intentions and hopes that are given from heaven? These prayers have been said billions of times. If they are answered for .01% and those .01% also prayed those prayers for all souls and they are all unanswered, what good is the intercession of the saints? What good are the prayers Mary prays for sinners like me? “Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of death”. There is no doubt she does that. Will God not hear her, too?

My prayers for the prostitute are as real as her soul and as real as Mary’s prayers for me. I also believe this prostitute prays for me, and her daughter, and the rest of us.