%57 of American Catholic support some rights for LGBT people.

[holyrood]

Exactly. That’s why I have trouble putting much stock in such “statistics.” All human beings are entitled to certain rights. But no human beings can claim as a “right” something to which they do not have a right.

The question of “some rights” is so generic as to be meaningless. What “rights” are being asked about?

What are “some rights”? The right to life? The right to vote?

In that case I’m surprised its only 57%.

Yes, exactly, on both these above quotes. If this is even a real study, they’re playing PR games to make Catholics (or whoever) think that all other Catholics are becoming so ‘progressive’ and ‘open-minded’ (I use the terms loosely and even facetiously), that maybe it’s time to change their opinion, too. Get on the bandwagon. But they’ve never actually said what rights anyone is supposedly supporting.

FURTHERMORE… why is it that someone who physically attacks a homosexual person can be sent away to prison for decades; while the same attack on a straight person would garner a sentence of a year’s worth of probation (for example)?

If someone attacked (or even murdered!) a friend or relative of mine, I would hate to think that a court of law would find his or her life not as valuable as the life of a homosexual person’s…

And why is it that when a woman is murdered by a gay man for being too darn Christian in her opinions, that’s censored out by the news, but when a gay man is killed in a drug deal gone wrong, that’s hyped up for YEARS as a hate crime when in fact it had nothing to do with his sexual proclivities.

 

[meltzerboy]

Yes, exactly, on both these above quotes. If this is even a real study, they’re playing PR games to make Catholics (or whoever) think that all other Catholics are becoming so ‘progressive’ and ‘open-minded’ (I use the terms loosely and even facetiously), that maybe it’s time to change their opinion, too. Get on the bandwagon. But they’ve never actually said what rights anyone is supposedly supporting.

And why is it that when a woman is murdered by a gay man for being too darn Christian in her opinions, that’s censored out by the news, but when a gay man is killed in a drug deal gone wrong, that’s hyped up for YEARS as a hate crime when in fact it had nothing to do with his sexual proclivities.

Do you know of specific examples of the last two events you refer to? Also, if you are aware of the first one (the Christian woman who was murdered by a gay man), I suppose it was not completely censored. Perhaps only by the mainstream media?

 

[meltzerboy]

But under the laws proposed the person that attacked my brother faces less punishment than if they had attacked a gay person. So much for equal protection.

People who are disabled are not a protected class? Do you think they should be?

 

[fix]

1 - Laws protect LGBT people from discrimination.
2 - Laws protect LGBT people from getting fired from their jobs for being gay.
3 - Laws allow LGBT people to serve openly in military.
4 - The right for adoption.

You have to carefully define terms if you want correct answers. Rights are not mere wishes, nor can any State confer faux rights legitimately. That would be a grave injustice.

 

[holyrood]

Do you know of specific examples of the last two events you refer to? Also, if you are aware of the first one (the Christian woman who was murdered by a gay man), I suppose it was not completely censored. Perhaps only by the mainstream media?

Mary Stachowicz
Matthew Shephard

You’re right, Mary Stachowicz’s death was censored ‘only’ by mainstream media. Hopefully more and more people will continue to realize that mainstream media is deciding what they will hear (or trying to) and therefore trying to shape society rather than actually report.

abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1#.Ud1f2uEo5jo

 

[holyrood]

People who are disabled are not a protected class? Do you think they should be?

Can you clarify what exactly you’re getting at here?

Are you comparing someone with homosexual proclivities to someone with a disability?

Is someone who kills a disabled person going to get a longer sentence than someone who kills a non-disabled person?

 

[signit]

1 - Laws protect LGBT people from discrimination.
2 - Laws protect LGBT people from getting fired from their jobs for being gay.
3 - Laws allow LGBT people to serve openly in military.
4 - The right for adoption.

Definite yes on 1 and 2.

Yes on 3. It should be about behavior and not status. If the military member is getting their work done and not causing issues with other members they should not be terminated.

Not sure about 4. As a Catholic I believe a child is better off with a mother and father. Not sure I would support a total ban.

There are already laws to prevent people from being fired for being gay.

Why should LGBT have special rights from discrimination that other people don’t have?

That’s not true.

In many states you can still be fired for being gay (or even identified as gay).

It’s not a protected class under Federal law.

 

[SamH]

People who are disabled are not a protected class? Do you think they should be?

I think people should be protected equally.

Are there laws that specify greater penalties for those that attack disabled people?

 

[SamH]

That’s not true.

In many states you can still be fired for being gay (or even identified as gay).

It’s not a protected class under Federal law.

In what states can an employer fire an individual for being gay without fear of civil lawsuit?

 

[signit]

In what states can an employer fire an individual for being gay without fear of civil lawsuit?

Plenty of states. Twenty-nine, the last I checked.

snopes.com/politics/sexuality/firedforbeinggay.asp

Almost all states have “at-will” employment, where you can be fired without cause (with minor exceptions), unless the reason is the person’s membership in one of certain protected classes.

Some states have protection for government employees, and some private employers have antidiscrimination policies. But unless there’s a state law, there’s no general protection in employment.

 

[Slavonic]

But under the laws proposed the person that attacked my brother faces less punishment than if they had attacked a gay person. So much for equal protection.

That is not so. Your brother’s sexual orientation was not a factor in the attack. Thus if a gay person was subject to an identical attack, the perpetrator would not be subject to any additional charges or punishments.

 

[SamH]

Plenty of states. Twenty-nine, the last I checked.

snopes.com/politics/sexuality/firedforbeinggay.asp

Almost all states have “at-will” employment, where you can be fired without cause (with minor exceptions), unless the reason is the person’s membership in one of certain protected classes.

Some states have protection for government employees, and some private employers have antidiscrimination policies. But unless there’s a state law, there’s no general protection in employment.

Read your source.

 

[SamH]

That is not so. Your brother’s sexual orientation was not a factor in the attack. Thus if a gay person was subject to an identical attack, the perpetrator would not be subject to any additional charges or punishments.

Not true - hate crime laws could apply.

 

[signit]

Read your source.

I did.

I qualified my 29-state statement.

I said that some states may have protections for government employees, and the article also says that some counties and cities may have prohibitions. Also, as I said, some private employers set their own antidiscrimination policies.

I stand by my statement that 29 states do not have a general prohibition against anti-gay discrimination by private employers.

 

[Slavonic]

Not true - hate crime laws could apply.

How so? There is no motive or animus against a protected class.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

But, my question is, Why? Why do in the west the most religious groups support some rights for LGBT people are Catholics ? ( For me there is nothing wrong with that ).

And you as Catholic, do you support some not all the rights for LGBT people. Like

1 - Laws protect LGBT people from discrimination.
2 - Laws protect LGBT people from getting fired from their jobs for being gay.
3 - Laws allow LGBT people to serve openly in military.
4 - The right for adoption.

A good friend of mine (she is Catholic) is supportive of the above. The way that she describes it is “If two people want to be happy together why stop them?” Homosexuality is not her thing, but she’s got no objection to those for which it is there thing.

 

[Kevin_B]

i do not support hate crime legislation, but I’m amazed at how many people don’t understand it at all.

Killing someone who is black, gay, Jewish, etc. is not a hate crime.

Killing someone BECAUSE they are black, gay, Jewish, etc. is a hate crime.

And, as many people seem to not understand, killing someone BECAUSE they are white, straight, or Christian is also a hate crime. No hate crime legislation only mentions minorities. They just make it a worse crime if it is done to anyone because of their skin color, religion, sexual orientation etc.

 

[fix]

i do not support hate crime legislation, but I’m amazed at how many people don’t understand it at all.

Killing someone who is black, gay, Jewish, etc. is not a hate crime.

Killing someone BECAUSE they are black, gay, Jewish, etc. is a hate crime.

And, as many people seem to not understand, killing someone BECAUSE they are white, straight, or Christian is also a hate crime. No hate crime legislation only mentions minorities. They just make it a worse crime if it is done to anyone because of their skin color, religion, sexual orientation etc.

Basically we have a special category based on mind reading. How fair.

 

[meltzerboy]

Basically we have a special category based on mind reading. How fair.

I believe there has to be some evidence involved to prove that it was a hate crime; otherwise it cannot be prosecuted as such. It is not based on mind reading.

 

[fix]

I believe there has to be some evidence involved to prove that it was a hate crime; otherwise it cannot be prosecuted as such. It is not based on mind reading.

Hate crimes are a hate crime.