60-70's Mass music

[Vincent1984]

This is absolutely untrue for the Ordinary Form. The principle of “Full, conscious and active participation in the liturgy”, promulgated by the Second Vatican Council, demands that we add our voices together in praising God. This means that the choir, the cantor, or the soloist is primarily there to assist the people in singing the parts of the Mass that are to be sung.

Musicam Sacram (1967), which the website of the Vatican lists as one of the documents of the Second Vatican Council (because it makes specific follow-up on a subject the Council dealt with more broadly) would seem to take a slightly different view of participatio actuosa from the one you have given.

     15. The faithful fulfil their liturgical role by making that full,          conscious and active participation which is demanded by the nature of          the liturgy itself and which is, by reason of baptism, the right and          duty of the Christian people. This participation(a) Should be above all internal, in the sense that by it the          faithful join their mind to what they pronounce or hear, and cooperate          with heavenly grace,
     (b) Must be, on the other hand, external also, that is, such as to          show the internal participation by gestures and bodily attitudes, by the          acclamations, responses and singing.

The faithful should also be taught to unite themselves interiorly to what the ministers or choir sing, so that by listening to them they may raise their minds to God.

     16. One cannot find anything more religious and more joyful in sacred          celebrations than a whole congregation expressing its faith and devotion          in song. Therefore the active participation of the whole people, which          is shown in singing, is to be carefully promoted as follows:
     (a) It should first of all include acclamations, responses to the          greetings of the priest and ministers and to the prayers of litany form,          and also antiphons and psalms, refrains or repeated responses, hymns and          canticles.
     (b) Through suitable instruction and practices, the people should be          gradually led to a fuller—indeed, to a complete—participation in those          parts of the singing which pertain to them.
     (c) Some of the people's song, however, especially if the faithful          have not yet been sufficiently instructed, or if musical settings for          several voices are used, can be handed over to the choir alone, provided          that the people are not excluded from those parts that concern them. But          the usage of entrusting to the choir alone the entire singing of the          whole Proper and of the whole Ordinary, to the complete exclusion of the          people's participation in the singing, is to be deprecated.

We are reminded that this participation is ‘above all internal’. While it certainly recommends that the whole congregation be gradually trained to sing the Mass parts, it does not demand it.
It is good to remember that it was envisaged that we, the lay faithful, be trained and guided into singing the Church’s rich repertoire of sacred music. Nowhere is it said that we should be given dumbed-down schmaltz to replace the church’s rich repertoire of sacred music.

 

[Theophilus777]

It’s amazing how much you can say with a couple of smilies!

I almost laughed when I saw the smilies, understanding too well the polar nature of the debate on this topic on the Catholic Answers forums. But then we are all members of the Body of Christ and love one another. Right?

 

[ProVobis]

This is absolutely untrue for the Ordinary Form. The principle of “Full, conscious and active participation in the liturgy”, promulgated by the Second Vatican Council, demands that we add our voices together in praising God.

What about those who can’t talk or sing? Doesn’t the text in the Mass which says: “Sursum corda/Habemus ad Dominum” (Upwards, hearts/We have to the Lord)" just before the Preface/Canon have any meaning?

 

[Corki]

This is absolutely untrue for the Ordinary Form. The principle of “Full, conscious and active participation in the liturgy”, promulgated by the Second Vatican Council, demands that we add our voices together in praising God. This means that the choir, the cantor, or the soloist is primarily there to assist the people in singing the parts of the Mass that are to be sung.

There is no “demand” in the GIRM (the actual instructinon for the Ordinary Form) that we all “add our voices together” by singing during Mass. Full, conscious and active participation does not require that we “do” anything at all other than unite our hearts.

If you want to sing, fine. But it is nowhere required.

 

[Dale_M]

Hi Ringodrummer1, welcome to CAF

I’m sorry your very first post here was greeted with so many less than friendly comments. Obviously some members have strong personal feelings on this subject. But i wish your question could have been received a little more charitably.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hello, I am new to the forum, so I hope I am asking the right board. I wanted to know if anybody has a link to a listing of songs that were sang during the 60’s-70’s: period? I am starting a new group to perform at Mass, and would like to use a few songs from the past. Also, does some one remember the song called “Some Young Carpenter”? I know it had those words in the song. Any help would be great! God Bless-Matt

Hi Ringo: I was a bonnie young lassie in the 60s and 70s. There were some, um, interesting songs we did then, some of which are still done today, some of which disappeared.

Now there is nothing wrong with using ‘songs from the past’ per se but not necessarily in the context of the Mass, especially when we’re going to be starting with a revised translation of the Mass this Advent. You’re asking a lot of your congregation to first ‘go back’ 40 or 50 years this summer and then ‘go forward’.

However, it might be interesting for your group to have a function after a Mass where you can showcase the heritage of Church music, in which a couple of the songs of the 60s might play a small part. You could start out by singing some Gregorian chant and explaining what a ‘mode’ is, and explaining the ties to Jewish chant. You could play a Jewish song. You could then have somebody play the organ and explain how the portative organ came into use. You could play Aquinas’ Pange Lingua. You could have an example of the earliest harmony (usually with voices singing the first and fourth), then examples of madrigals, examples of early Mass settings. . .segue into the Renaissance with Palestrina, then into the era of Bach, then Mozart. You could give an early example of guitar with “Silent Night” and how that was compased in the 19th century. You could demonstrate some of the great organ classics of the 19th century. Then you could move into the 20th century, have one or two 60s (The Spirit Is A Moving’, Sons of God, Gift of Finest Wheat and Make Me a Channel of Your Peace); the 1970s with maybe one or two Weston Priory songs, if you MUST in the 1980s a Marty Haugen, and in the 1990s look up something like Stephen Warner’s Make Of Your Hands a Throne. . then for the 2000s show the Gregorian chant being reintroduced.

 

[MarkThompson]

Hello, I am new to the forum, so I hope I am asking the right board. I wanted to know if anybody has a link to a listing of songs that were sang during the 60’s-70’s: period? I am starting a new group to perform at Mass, and would like to use a few songs from the past. Also, does some one remember the song called “Some Young Carpenter”? I know it had those words in the song. Any help would be great! God Bless-Matt

Here’s an even dozen:

• All That We Have - The Dameans
• It’s a Brand New Day - Paul Quinlan and the New Day
• Here We Are - Ray Repp
• Forevermore - Ray Repp
• They’ll Know We Are Christians - Peter Scholtes
• We Are the Light of the World - Jean Anthony Greif
• Like a Shepherd - St. Louis Jesuits
• Earthen Vessels - St. Louis Jesuits
• Peace Is Flowing Like a River - Carey Landry and Carol Jean Kinghorn
• Come to the Water - John Foley
• Blest Be the Lord - Dan Schutte
• Glory and Praise To Our God - Dan Schutte

I think that’s at least a somewhat representative sampling. As for the song Some Young Carpenter, my quick searching says it was from 1970 and by a singer named Jack Miffleton.

 

[puzzleannie]

It’s amazing how much you can say with a couple of smilies!

is there a high 5 smiley I can send back to Phemie?

 

[MysteriorumDei]

I know a priest who was in the seminary in the late '80s- early '90s. As a class prank(?), the seminarians hid all of the volumes of Glory and Praise in a place “where no one will ever be able to find them again.”

At the seminary where I studied just a few years ago, we still had Glory and Praise… in a storage room. We did use some of them… to prop up the organist’s bench.

 

[Sarika]

At the seminary where I studied just a few years ago, we still had Glory and Praise… in a storage room. We did use some of them… to prop up the organist’s bench.

 

[laszlo]

There is no “demand” in the GIRM (the actual instructinon for the Ordinary Form) that we all “add our voices together” by singing during Mass. Full, conscious and active participation does not require that we “do” anything at all other than unite our hearts.

If you want to sing, fine. But it is nowhere required.

Less than 10% of the people are ‘contemplative’ type, and are capable to unite their hearts w/o extra additional remedy.

The music is an excellent remedy, especially if it is not performance expecting applause, but service to help elevate the souls to Christ, and is accompanied with appropriate silence

As for the original poster it could be right thing to recall the music of the 60’s and 70’s as a performance outside of the Mass as an entertainment for Sunday afternoon. To perform on the Mass makes more harm than benefit, the Mass is to serve.

 

[Elizium23]

(b) Must be, on the other hand, external also, that is, such as to show the internal participation by gestures and bodily attitudes, by the acclamations, responses and singing.

MUST is a very strong word. It is a requirement. This is clearly a requirement to sing. I stand by my assertion that “Full, conscious and active participation” means you sing. “Acclamations, responses and singing” means that you say the responses, you do the acclamations, and you sing the hymns (where appropriate and encouraged by the choir.)

 

[Corki]

MUST is a very strong word. It is a requirement. This is clearly a requirement to sing. I stand by my assertion that “Full, conscious and active participation” means you sing. “Acclamations, responses and singing” means that you say the responses, you do the acclamations, and you sing the hymns (where appropriate and encouraged by the choir.)

It’s a requirement for the Church, not for each individual.

The very next line reads:

The faithful should also be taught to unite themselves interiorly to what the ministers or choir sing, so that by listening to them they may raise their minds to God.

So, if the choir is singing and I am listening and uniting myself interiorly, I am actively participating.

And a little further down

(

b) Through suitable instruction and practices, the people should be gradually led to a fuller—indeed, to a complete—participation in those parts of the singing which pertain to them.

“Gradually led” does not mean required to sing.

Keep in mind that this document is also one that puts preference on the Mass propers being in Latin and chanted. You can’t cherry pick a document for one line.

 

[Elizium23]

28. In liturgical celebrations each person, minister or layman, who has an office to perform, should do all of, but only, those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the principles of liturgy.

30. To promote active participation, the people should be encouraged to take part by means of acclamations, responses, psalmody, antiphons, and songs, as well as by actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes. And at the proper times all should observe a reverent silence.

1. Liturgical worship is given a more noble form when the divine offices are celebrated solemnly in song, with the assistance of sacred ministers and the active participation of the people.
2. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30.

42. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God.

 

[Corki]

Elizium23:
Wow. No need to yell.

No one is questioning the fact that singing should be encouraged. But even that giant type doesn’t include anything that says that an individual is **required **to sing every song. On any given Sunday, I might not sing a song for a variety of reasons:

1. it might be a song I dislike
2. it might be a song not in my range
3. I might have a sore throat and not be comfortable singing
4. I might be otherwise engaged in the Mass. For example, I rarely sing the Communion Hymn since by the time I get back to my seat and say my prayers, the song is wrapping up.
5. I may have misheard the hymn number and not be able to find the song
6. it may be a song not in the hymnal. This happens all the time when I attend the “school Mass”. The students have a different song book.
7. I may be holding a sleeping infant and not want to wake him
8. it may be a song in a language I am not comfortable pronouncing
9. I may have forgotten my reading glasses and not be able to read the notes
10. I may simply want to hear the choir sing the song rather than sing along

… and that’s just the reasons that pop into my head right now.

 

[thequeen]

How about we just keep the music sacred for the sacrifice of the mass I have never been a fan of the guitar mass or modern music at the mass

 

[thequeen]

How about we just keep the music sacred for the sacrifice of the Holy Mass I have never been a fan of the guitar mass or modern music for the mass.

 

[Elizium23]

Sing to the Lord:

1. Within the gathered assembly, the role of the congregation is especially important. “The full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else, for it is the primary and indispensable source from which the faithful are to derive the true Christian
   spirit.”23
2. Participation in the Sacred Liturgy must be “internal, in the sense that by it the faithful join their mind to what they pronounce or hear, and cooperate with heavenly grace.”24 Even when listening to the various prayers and readings of the Liturgy or to the singing of the choir, the assembly continues to participate actively as they “unite themselves interiorly to what the ministers or choir sing, so that by listening to them they may raise their minds to God.”25 “In a culture which neither favors nor fosters meditative quiet, the art of interior listening is learned only with difficulty. Here we see how the liturgy, though it must always be properly inculturated, must also be counter-cultural.”26
3. **Participation must also be external, so that internal participation can be expressed and reinforced by actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes, and by the acclamations, responses, and singing.**27 The quality of our participation in such sung praise comes less from our vocal ability than from the desire of our hearts to sing together of our love for God. Participation in the Sacred Liturgy both expresses and strengthens the faith that is in us.
4. Our participation in the Liturgy is challenging. Sometimes, our voices do not
   correspond to the convictions of our hearts. At other times, we are distracted or preoccupied by the cares of the world. But Christ always invites us to enter into song, to rise above our own preoccupations, and to give our entire selves to the hymn of his Paschal Sacrifice for the honor and glory of the Most Blessed Trinity.
5. “While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant [or song] is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the ‘communitarian’ nature of the procession to receive Communion.”157 The singing begins immediately and continues “for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.”158 The Communion chant or song may be sung by the people with choir or cantor, or by the choir alone. Because the Communion chant expresses the unity of those processing and receiving the Holy Sacrament, communal singing is commendable. **The singing of the people should be preeminent.
   **
6. “When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.”164 The song after Communion should focus the assembly on the mystery of the Holy Communion in which it participates, and it should never draw undue attention to the choir or other musicians. The congregation may stand for the song after Communion if the nature of the music seems to call for it.

 

[Vincent1984]

Elizium, everything you’re quoting shows the desirability of congregational singing, but does not demand it. Nor does it recommend that the church’s musical preferences be changed in order to make congregational singing instant. It seems to me to express a preference that the lay faithful be taught to participate in our rich musical patrimony, rather than immeditately replacing it with easy-to-sing innovations.

The reference to must in §13 is about external participation, where gestures (eg standing, kneeling, sign of the cross) and [said] responses are included as well as singing. It does not demand that we must sing along with everything.

 

[SunnaB16]

Elizium, everything you’re quoting shows the desirability of congregational singing, but does not demand it. Nor does it recommend that the…

…It does not demand that we must sing along with everything.

Even if we are/were expected to sing, the Church didnt anticipate the introducing of so much abominable umm...material from those decades. And, as someones already said, one lousy singer ran ruin it…i wouldn`t have the (confounded) hide to sing!