60-70's Mass music

[Corki]

Originally Posted by Sing to the Lord

Sing to the Lord was a committee document published by the USCCB. It can’t, by definition, bind the faithful.

 

[benedictgal]

Sing to the Lord was a committee document published by the USCCB. It can’t, by definition, bind the faithful.

Furthermore, since Sing to the Lord was never submitted to the Holy See for the necessary recognitio, it is only binding when it refers to the authoritative documents issued by the Holy See. It can suggest, but, it cannot mandate.

To the OP, perhaps this paragraph from Sacramentum Caritatis, by the Apostolic Exhortations written by Pope Benedict XVI, can hellp you:

Liturgical song

1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. **Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). **Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).

Unfortunately, I have found that the 60-70s era represents some of the worst in music used for the Mass. It was an “anything goes” period, that will, hopefully, be gone soon.

 

[benedictgal]

Wow. No need to yell.

No one is questioning the fact that singing should be encouraged. But even that giant type doesn’t include anything that says that an individual is **required **to sing every song. On any given Sunday, I might not sing a song for a variety of reasons:

1. it might be a song I dislike
2. it might be a song not in my range
3. I might have a sore throat and not be comfortable singing
4. I might be otherwise engaged in the Mass. For example, I rarely sing the Communion Hymn since by the time I get back to my seat and say my prayers, the song is wrapping up.
5. I may have misheard the hymn number and not be able to find the song
6. it may be a song not in the hymnal. This happens all the time when I attend the “school Mass”. The students have a different song book.
7. I may be holding a sleeping infant and not want to wake him
8. it may be a song in a language I am not comfortable pronouncing
9. I may have forgotten my reading glasses and not be able to read the notes
10. I may simply want to hear the choir sing the song rather than sing along

… and that’s just the reasons that pop into my head right now.

Questionable lyrics and a setting that is not at all conducive, let alone suitable, for the liturgy are the main reasons why I choose not to sing.

 

[ArchStreetBand]

:

How long will it take to get this thread closed??

 

[ArchStreetBand]

Hello, I am new to the forum, so I hope I am asking the right board. I wanted to know if anybody has a link to a listing of songs that were sang during the 60’s-70’s: period? I am starting a new group to perform at Mass, and would like to use a few songs from the past. Also, does some one remember the song called “Some Young Carpenter”? I know it had those words in the song. Any help would be great! God Bless-Matt

Hope this helps!

kencanedo.com/folk_mass_composers.html

Best of luck to you. I’m sure your parish will be grateful for all of your work.

I hope you keep posting!

 

[Elizium23]

I already referred to official documents Sacrosanctum Concilium and Sacramentum Caritatis and nobody had any constructive criticism or refutation of my point, there was merely a list of absurd excuses posted.

Let’s explore why I may not want to pray in the liturgy.

1. it might be a prayer I dislike
2. it might be a prayer not for myself
3. I might have a sore throat and not be comfortable praying
4. I might be otherwise engaged in the Mass. For example, I rarely pray the after-Communion prayer since by the time I get back to my seat and sing my song, the prayer is wrapping up.
5. I may have misheard the prayer and not be able to find the prayer
6. it may be a prayer not in the missal. This happens all the time when I attend the “school Mass”. The students have a different missal.
7. I may be holding a sleeping infant and not want to wake him
8. it may be a prayer in a language I am not comfortable pronouncing
9. I may have forgotten my reading glasses and not be able to read the notes
10. I may simply want to hear the priest pray the prayer rather than pray along

 

[benedictgal]

I already referred to official documents Sacrosanctum Concilium and Sacramentum Caritatis and nobody had any constructive criticism or refutation of my point, there was merely a list of whiny excuses posted.

Let’s explore why I may not want to pray in the liturgy.

Actually, the Gloria does not have to be sung entirely by the faithful. Furthermore, the singing referred to concerns the actual “parts of the Mass” such as the Entrance and Communion antiphons, the greeting, the Gospel Acclamation, the Sanctus, the Memorial Acclamation, the Amen and the Agnus Dei.

Furthermore, two prefects of the CDWDS, as well as Pope Benedict XVI, have noted that there is a misinterpretation and a misunderstanding of what Sacrosanctum Concilium meant by “actuosa participatio”.

Authentic participation

1. The Second Vatican Council rightly emphasized the active, full and fruitful participation of the entire People of God in the eucharistic celebration (155). Certainly, the renewal carried out in these past decades has made considerable progress towards fulfilling the wishes of the Council Fathers. Yet we must not overlook the fact that some misunderstanding has occasionally arisen concerning the precise meaning of this participation. It should be made clear that the word “participation” does not refer to mere external activity during the celebration. In fact, the active participation called for by the Council must be understood in more substantial terms, on the basis of a greater awareness of the mystery being celebrated and its relationship to daily life. The conciliar Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium encouraged the faithful to take part in the eucharistic liturgy not “as strangers or silent spectators,” but as participants “in the sacred action, conscious of what they are doing, actively and devoutly” (156). This exhortation has lost none of its force. The Council went on to say that the faithful “should be instructed by God’s word, and nourished at the table of the Lord’s Body. They should give thanks to God. Offering the immaculate Victim, not only through the hands of the priest but also together with him, they should learn to make an offering of themselves. Through Christ, the Mediator, they should be drawn day by day into ever more perfect union with God and each other” (157).

…Personal conditions for an “active participation”

1. In their consideration of the actuosa participatio of the faithful in the liturgy, the Synod Fathers also discussed the personal conditions required for fruitful participation on the part of individuals. (168) One of these is certainly the spirit of constant conversion which must mark the lives of all the faithful. Active participation in the eucharistic liturgy can hardly be expected if one approaches it superficially, without an examination of his or her life. This inner disposition can be fostered, for example, by recollection and silence for at least a few moments before the beginning of the liturgy, by fasting and, when necessary, by sacramental confession. A heart reconciled to God makes genuine participation possible. The faithful need to be reminded that there can be no actuosa participatio in the sacred mysteries without an accompanying effort to participate actively in the life of the Church as a whole, including a missionary commitment to bring Christ’s love into the life of society.

Clearly, full participation in the Eucharist takes place when the faithful approach the altar in person to receive communion (169). Yet true as this is, care must be taken lest they conclude that the mere fact of their being present in church during the liturgy gives them a right or even an obligation to approach the table of the Eucharist. Even in cases where it is not possible to receive sacramental communion, participation at Mass remains necessary, important, meaningful and fruitful. In such circumstances it is beneficial to cultivate a desire for full union with Christ through the practice of spiritual communion, praised by Pope John Paul II (170) and recommended by saints who were masters of the spiritual life (171).

Note that he does not even mention singing here.

 

[Elizium23]

Thank you for proving my point, Benedictgal.
CDWDS:

The conciliar Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium encouraged the faithful to take part in the eucharistic liturgy not “as strangers or silent spectators,” but as participants “in the sacred action, conscious of what they are doing, actively and devoutly” (156). This exhortation has lost none of its force.

 

[puzzleannie]

as soon as you guys come up with a High 5 smiley, send one to Corki, too.
I reserve the right to refuse to sing:
heretical lyrics
songs that are also sung at Girl Scout Camp around the fire
those I have never heard before for which no music or words are provided
anything projected on a screen
(if I ever see chant displayed this way I will let y’awwll know about it)

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you for proving my point, Benedictgal.

But, that does not necessarily include having to sing questionable songs. If a song has questionable theology and a secular setting, then, I cannot sing it in good conscience.

Active participation also means:

Actuosa Participatio
The pope, in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy, defines actuosa participatio as a call to a total assimilation in the very action of Christ the High Priest. It is in no way a call to activism, a misunderstanding that spread widely in the aftermath of Sacrosanctum Concilium. Stated Cardinal Ratzinger: “what does it [active participation] mean…? Unfortunately the word was very quickly misunderstood to mean something external, entailing a need for general activity, as if as many people as possible, as often as possible, should be visibly engaged in action” (The Spirit of the Liturgy, 2000, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, p. 171).

We know that in many places this led to the amalgamation of the sanctuary with the assembly, the clericalization of the laity and the filling up of the sanctuary with the noisy and distracting presence of a large number of people. One could say that virtually Wall Street moved into the sanctuary. But was that really what the Council Fathers advocated? Cardinal Ratzinger does not think so. For him, “the real ‘action’ in the liturgy in which we are all supposed to participate is the action of God Himself. This is what is new and distinctive about Christian liturgy: God Himself acts and does what is essential” (ibid, p. 173).

This kind of participation in the very action of Christ, the High Priest, requires from us nothing less than an attitude of being totally absorbed in Him. Says the cardinal “the point is that, ultimately, the difference between the actio Christi and our own action is done away with. There is only one action, which is at the same time His and ours — ours because we have become ‘one body and one spirit ‘with Him” (ibid p. 174).

Active participation, thus, is not a giving way to any activism but an integral and total assimilation into the person of Christ who is truly the High Priest of that eternal and uninterrupted celebration of the heavenly liturgy.

The Council’s Constitution on the Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, too, as we know, spoke of this when it defined liturgy further as a foretaste of the “heavenly liturgy which is celebrated in the Holy City of Jerusalem towards which we journey as pilgrims, and in which Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, a minister of the sanctuary and of the true Tabernacle” (cf. Rev. 21:2; Col. 3:1; Heb. 8:2)-(SC 8).

Hence, everything we do should help us to achieve that and that alone is the true meaning of the “participatio”: a taking part in a bigger actio. Participatio itself is, I would say, in this sense, an ars [art] where we ourselves are not the artists; neither do we follow an art taught or handed down to us by others, but allow the Lord to be the artist through us, becoming part of what He does. As far as we are concerned, it is participatio in the order of “esse” — being. All that we do in liturgy makes us achieve that union with the eternal high priest, Christ and His sanctifying offering. The more we become part of the oratio of Christ, His eternal self-offering to God as the expiatory Sacrificial Lamb (Rev. 14:1-5), so much more would it be able to transform us into the Logos and make us experience the redeeming effects of such a transformation. Without that, as Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, we would radically misunderstand the “theo-drama” of the liturgy, lapsing into mere parody (cf. ibid p. 175).

This comes from an address given by then-CDWDS secretary now His Eminence Malcolm Cardinal Ranjinth, who also uses the Holy Father’s own words. Incidentally, what I quoted came not from the CDWDS, but, from Pope Benedict XVI, himself.

With all due respect, as your definition of “actuosa participatio” seems to constrict what the term actually says. We are primarily in union with the actions of the priest, this means responding to the dialogue and the prayers. Such can include singing, but, the singing of the parts of the Mass. Furthermore, we cannot mandate the faithful to sing music that, in and of itself, fails to respect the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Elizium23]

And here I thought that we should defer to the judgement of those competent to teach theology before we make our own determinations on what is heresy and what is not. If a hymn is placed in the liturgy, we can assume it is approved by the pastor and at least tacitly approved by the bishop. If you truly find that a song contains heresy, then I say to make use of charity and sing it once, then follow through on the recommended complaint procedure for any instance of heresy in the liturgy. Strike up a conversation with the priest celebrant, write a letter to the bishop, write away to the CDWDS about it. In the meantime, the principle of subsidiarity should inform our decision to participate in the liturgy.

At any rate, no matter what you believe about the above, this is no longer an argument about singing. It is a question of participation or not. The question of singing is the same as the question of praying. Do you pray the responses in the Mass? Yes? Don’t you think that it is required for us to pray the responses (in the Ordinary Form)? The same follows for singing.

 

[benedictgal]

And here I thought that we should defer to the judgement of those competent to teach theology before we make our own determinations on what is heresy and what is not. If a hymn is placed in the liturgy, we can assume it is approved by the pastor and at least tacitly approved by the bishop. If you truly find that a song contains heresy, then I say to make use of charity and sing it once, then follow through on the recommended complaint procedure for any instance of heresy in the liturgy. Strike up a conversation with the priest celebrant, write a letter to the bishop, write away to the CDWDS about it. In the meantime, the principle of subsidiarity should inform our decision to participate in the liturgy.

At any rate, no matter what you believe about the above, this is no longer an argument about singing. It is a question of participation or not. The question of singing is the same as the question of praying. Do you pray the responses in the Mass? Yes? Don’t you think that it is required for us to pray the responses (in the Ordinary Form)? The same follows for singing.

However, when the music is questionable (both in theology and in form), it would actually be a disservice to the liturgy to sing such songs. With all due respect, that seems to be the point that is being missed here.

There is also no quality control here among the publishers. Sadly, the guidelines noted in Sacramentum Caritatis seem to be ignored, unread or disregarded. Furthermore, much of the music written during the 60s and 70s was along the lines of experimentational and was actually a watering down of the authentic Sensus Fidei of the Church.

Incidentally, in 2001, Liturgiam Authenticam mandated that the national bishops conferences submit a directory of music for the Mass for review and recognitio by the Holy See. The USCCB submitted its directory, but, it is still under review.

 

[Corki]

I already referred to official documents Sacrosanctum Concilium and Sacramentum Caritatis and nobody had any constructive criticism or refutation of my point, there was merely a list of absurd excuses posted.

Actually, more than one poster pointed out that while what you posted clearly states the reasons to encourage singing, nothing that you posted states that any individual is required to sing.

Let’s explore why I may not want to pray in the liturgy.

1) it might be a prayer I dislike
2) it might be a prayer not for myself
3) I might have a sore throat and not be comfortable praying
4) I might be otherwise engaged in the Mass. For example, I rarely pray the after-Communion prayer since by the time I get back to my seat and sing my song, the prayer is wrapping up.
5) I may have misheard the prayer and not be able to find the prayer
6) it may be a prayer not in the missal. This happens all the time when I attend the “school Mass”. The students have a different missal.
7) I may be holding a sleeping infant and not want to wake him
8) it may be a prayer in a language I am not comfortable pronouncing
9) I may have forgotten my reading glasses and not be able to read the notes
10) I may simply want to hear the priest pray the prayer rather than pray along

I don’t have a problem with any of that. #3, #5, #8, #9 and #10 are quite sensible. And the main reason I dislike some songs (#1) is the questionable lyrics. I wouldn’t join in with a questionable prayer at Mass either - as sometimes happens when they try to change the words.

As long as you are joining your prayer to those of the Mass, that’s active participation. You don’t have to be praying out loud although it’s preferred.

 

[Sarika]

as soon as you guys come up with a High 5 smiley, send one to Corki, too.
I reserve the right to refuse to sing:
heretical lyrics
songs that are also sung at Girl Scout Camp around the fire
those I have never heard before for which no music or words are provided
anything projected on a screen
(if I ever see chant displayed this way I will let y’awwll know about it)

 

[Corki]

as soon as you guys come up with a High 5 smiley, send one to Corki, too.
I reserve the right to refuse to sing:
heretical lyrics
songs that are also sung at Girl Scout Camp around the fire
those I have never heard before for which no music or words are provided
anything projected on a screen
(if I ever see chant displayed this way I will let y’awwll know about it)

Thanks – that’s high praise coming from you.

 

[SMHW]

You are much braver than me. When I held my cursor over this thread and saw the first post it took me a couple of hours to work up the courage to even click on the thread to see the responses.

 

[Corki]

And here I thought that we should defer to the judgement of those competent to teach theology before we make our own determinations on what is heresy and what is not. If a hymn is placed in the liturgy, we can assume it is approved by the pastor and at least tacitly approved by the bishop.

What you propose would be a great way to screen music. But, unfortunately, that’s not the way it works in most parishes.

1. The music is generally purchased in collections such as Glory and Praise. You get the good, the bad and the ugly all in the package. Some of the songs are perfect and some are just plain wrong.
2. The parish purchases the hymnals directly from the publishers and I have never heard of the Bishop getting involved.
3. The hymnals from the major publishers have been reviewed by at least one Bishop but that doesn’t mean that all the songs are approved for Mass. It just means the Bishop did not object to them being published in the collection.
4. The pastor rarely micromanages the music choices for any given Mass. There may be some occasions where the pastor makes a special request but for the most part, the music director or cantor makes the choices.

If you truly find that a song contains heresy, then I say to make use of charity and sing it once, then follow through on the recommended complaint procedure for any instance of heresy in the liturgy. Strike up a conversation with the priest celebrant, write a letter to the bishop, write away to the CDWDS about it. In the meantime, the principle of subsidiarity should inform our decision to participate in the liturgy.

This is great advice except the part about singing it once. Why would someone do that? If the words are questionable, wouldn’t it be better to err on the side of caution and keep silent until you have been able to check it out?

At any rate, no matter what you believe about the above, this is no longer an argument about singing. It is a question of participation or not. The question of singing is the same as the question of praying. Do you pray the responses in the Mass? Yes? Don’t you think that it is required for us to pray the responses (in the Ordinary Form)? The same follows for singing.

No, I don’t think it is required that anyone pray out loud the responses. And yes, the same follows for singing.

 

[rben20]

Let’s all just learn Gregorian Chant which according to the Vatican II documents holds primacy in liturgical music. It is something that is timeless and will never die and will continue to outlast generations. I am afraid I can’t say the same thing about 60s 70s music…

as soon as you guys come up with a High 5 smiley, send one to Corki, too.
I reserve the right to refuse to sing:
heretical lyrics
songs that are also sung at Girl Scout Camp around the fire
those I have never heard before for which no music or words are provided
anything projected on a screen
(if I ever see chant displayed this way I will let y’awwll know about it)

good one

 

[Phemie]

You are much braver than me. When I held my cursor over this thread and saw the first post it took me a couple of hours to work up the courage to even click on the thread to see the responses.

I just knew that it would be entertaining.

 

[CatholicZ09]

songs that are also sung at Girl Scout Camp around the fire

cough"Peace Is Flowing like a River"cough