600+ Le Moyne students sign petition to remove Cardinal Dolan as commencement speaker

[JimR-OCDS]

Thats weird, as Cardinal Dolan is seen as being more liberal.

It doesn’t matter.

Those who oppose Church doctrines will oppose anyone who upholds them as Cardinal Dolan does.

Cardinal Dolan was elected president of the USCCB’s.

If he had a scandal hanging over his head, this would not have happened.

Jim

 

[Havard]

It doesn’t matter.

Those who oppose Church doctrines will oppose anyone who upholds them as Cardinal Dolan does.

Cardinal Dolan was elected president of the USCCB’s.

If he had a scandal hanging over his head, this would not have happened.

Jim

I don’t think his orthodoxy is in question. IMHO the reason his outreaching/inclusive approach - e.g., serving as Grand Marshal for the St. Patrick’s Day parade, congratulating Michael Sam’s coming out, etc. - comes into the discussion is because many think that such an approach would afford him more insulation from such attacks. This is a big wake up call that indicates otherwise.

 

[Hazen_Pingree]

I don’t think his orthodoxy is in question. IMHO the reason his outreaching/inclusive approach - e.g., serving as Grand Marshal for the St. Patrick’s Day parade, congratulating Michael Sam’s coming out, etc. - comes into the discussion is because many think that such an approach would afford him more insulation from such attacks. This is a big wake up call that indicates otherwise.

We can’t know his intentions. The suspicion that the Cardinal’s actions are premeditated for their public relations impact might seem to be a bit cynical – but it’s not unreasonable. I suspect that the Cardinal is not a guileless naif who acts impulsively. Our current pope may be able to get away with that kind of description (people make excuses for him all the time), but not the head of the archdiocese of New York. Nonetheless, the bottom line is, we can’t know his intentions.

But I agree that people no longer care about how the representatives of the Church have behaved in the recent past. If they’re wearing a roman collar, they are targets for social disapproval and even open-faced hatred.

The Le Moyne crowd don’t want a priest who has institutional authority anywhere near their campus.

 

[Havard]

We can’t know his intentions. The suspicion that the Cardinal’s actions are premeditated for their public relations impact might seem to be a bit cynical – but it’s not unreasonable. I suspect that the Cardinal is not a guileless naif who acts impulsively. Our current pope may be able to get away with that kind of description (people make excuses for him all the time), but not the head of the archdiocese of New York. Nonetheless, the bottom line is, we can’t know his intentions.

But I agree that people no longer care about how the representatives of the Church have behaved in the recent past. If they’re wearing a roman collar, they are targets for social disapproval and even open-faced hatred.

The Le Moyne crowd don’t want a priest who has institutional authority anywhere near their campus.

I’m not commenting on his motivations, and further, they are beside the point, IMO. What I do believe is pertinent is that his actions have been objectively outreaching towards homosexuals, and yet he still gets labeled a homophobe and boycotted.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I don’t think his orthodoxy is in question. IMHO the reason his outreaching/inclusive approach - e.g., serving as Grand Marshal for the St. Patrick’s Day parade, congratulating Michael Sam’s coming out, etc. - comes into the discussion is because many think that such an approach would afford him more insulation from such attacks. This is a big wake up call that indicates otherwise.

This is very perceptive. Reminds me of Obama getting called sexist this week. The left is a bottomless pit at this point - you will never make them happy. Pandering alienates probably 20 times more people than it attracts. I personally think people lose respect for you.

 

[Good_Tidings]

This is just the beginning of Catholic persecution here in the US.

OK, I may be over-reacting here, but when you have students at a Catholic college demanding a Cardinal like Cardinal Dolan, not be allowed to give a commencement speech, it shows that our youth have ideologically moved from apathy, rejection and are now in the first stages of persecution of the Catholic Church.

Antisemitism didn’t happen over night in Germany, it built up over time.

The same is true of what is taking place toward Catholicism and Christianity in general.

Jim

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

 

[commenter]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

Many Catholic students and religion teachers I know are very much buying the “company line” but the “company” is Huffpost, or CNN, etc. In many cases the “religion” program in the Catholic school is simply a reflection of “what’s trending now”, with a few religious phrases added. They aren’t more inclusive, they exclude and condemn different people than their predecessors.

They aren’t really more skeptical. An earlier generation of Catholics was far more skeptical of the corporate media culture; today many religion programs simply accept all the secular trends. That is the “box” they don’t really look at, but look from; the unevaluated secular trends are the standard by which they evaluate Christianity.

There are signs of hope; in our city we started a new, independent Catholic school this year, very much faithful to the Magisterium, Pope Francis, our bishop, and Tradition, but outside the official “box” of diocesan high schools.

 

[Corki]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

It’s not bad if they prefer to teach (and learn) truth with love. It IS bad if they abandon the idea of objective truth and give up on the fight for good over evil. These are Catholic college kids. It’s not a matter or “what is sin”. By this point in their Catholic education, they should know that.

 

[Havard]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

The only “line” I see is a slander against the Church. The Church isn’t “teaching Jesus’ love by telling kids who to condemn.” It’s teaching Jesus’ love. Even with the most-vilified Archbishop Cordileone, I challenge you or anyone for that matter to look up his actual statements. Really. Look them up, and discuss them.

If your kids are buying this slander, you need to step up and set the record straight.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

A person without faith is going to see religion as BS, I recall doing the same when I was 20 years old.

We can’t make young people have faith, only Jesus Christ can give them faith.

However, they have to be open to faith, and the main reason they aren’t is because it threatens the platitudes of their lifestyles.

Also, the younger generations aren’t as inclusive as you’d like to believe.

Just because they’re open to gay marriage and abortion, doesn’t make them inclusive, just tolerant of immorality.

Jim

 

[abucs]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

I think some in the younger generation are sleep-walking into accepting a secular designed box of new rules and yes, I think it is bad,

I think it is a very bad box actually.

If for 20 years you believed and taught that the company line of Christianity was about who to condemn then i agree with the kids calling BS on you and I hope you have come to the end of your career.

 

[abucs]

This is very perceptive. Reminds me of Obama getting called sexist this week. The left is a bottomless pit at this point - you will never make them happy. Pandering alienates probably 20 times more people than it attracts. I personally think people lose respect for you.

Well I was going to pander to your view but I’m not so sure now.

 

[weller2]

Cardinal Dolan was elected president of the USCCB’s.

If he had a scandal hanging over his head, this would not have happened.

That very thing happened in Poland.

[Fr.] Moskwa was convicted in 2004 and given a two-year suspended jail sentence and an eight-year ban from teaching children. He ignored the teaching ban, suffered no canonical sanctions, and his ordinary, Archbishop Jozef Michalik of Przemysl, returned him to his parish.

The judge reprimanded Michalik, who is president of Poland’s bishops’ conference, for ignoring repeated requests to deal with Moskwa “in the way required by Christian morality.” On the contrary, Michalik assured the convicted pedophile of his “sympathy” in an open letter, protesting the affront “to the good name of our priests.”

ncronline.org/news/accountability/clerical-power-thwarts-victims-poland

 

[weller2]

However, they have to be open to faith, and the main reason they aren’t is because it threatens the platitudes of their lifestyles.

The young people are seeing two things:

(a) the Church condemns homosexuality, while

(b) active homosexuals in the clergy are being protected (see Wesolowski, Paetz, gay sauna in Vatican-owned building, etc., etc.)

It does not take a genius to conclude that the “homosexuality is evil” rule is pure “do as I say, don’t do as I do” BS.

Ah, the joys of the period of cultural collapse…

 

[estesbob]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

Is the purpose of religious education to teach our children tolerance or is it to teach them our faith ?

 

[estesbob]

Did anyone actually read the news item cited? The objection is an outgrowth of His Eminence’s handling of the sex scandal in Milwaukee. Seems to me His Eminence, and the entire hierarchy, will be tainted by their failures to act appropriately for some time to come. As you sow, so shall you reap…and all that.

here is a link to the petition:
change.org/p/change-le-moyne-commencement-speaker-2015?recruiter=277466821&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg

Aside from one comment about “homophobic comments” which seems to me to be related to the scandal, it seems to to be totally dealing with his handling of the sex scandal in Milwaukee. Sorry, but that’s a fair target.

JimR - OCDS Yes, yes you are

Hazen Pingree Clearly not everyone agrees with that assessment…and let’s face it the handling of the sex scandal has itself been a scandal…for His Eminence as well as others

Havard - gotta wonder if you read the report the news item or petition…How’d he do in dealing with sexual assault of minors in Milwaukee?

commenter - especially if it gets him off the scandal ineptitude/misfeasance/malfeasance hook …

Corki - Maybe the hierarchy has failed the faithful over this entire issue of the sex scandal and this is but part of the price to pay?

Bubba - how many sex offenders did Che move around, protect and try to justify? Just wondering…

Eddie - One must at least agree that Monica Lewinski was a consenting adult…but at least you have a reasonable point…

Asserting that the cardinal mishandled the homosexual priest problem is meaningless unless if it is backed up with some solid facts.These Children have learned well, however If want to slander a Catholic cleric just drag out the homosexual priest scandal and everybody will applaud you

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The young people are seeing two things:

(a) the Church condemns homosexuality, while

(b) active homosexuals in the clergy are being protected (see Wesolowski, Paetz, gay sauna in Vatican-owned building, etc., etc.)

It does not take a genius to conclude that the “homosexuality is evil” rule is pure “do as I say, don’t do as I do” BS.

Ah, the joys of the period of cultural collapse…

Young people also misunderstand what took place within the church as to the handling of sexual predator priests. The Bishop’s here in the US, pretty much followed the protocol that other institutions did, because it was how legal and medical professionals advised them on.

It wasn’t until relatively recently that institutions began to handle the situations aggressively

.

That being said, accusations against Cardinal Dolan are unfounded.

The students who signed the petition against him, have another agenda in mind.

Jim

 

[josie_L]

Did anyone actually read the news item cited? The objection is an outgrowth of His Eminence’s handling of the sex scandal in Milwaukee. Seems to me His Eminence, and the entire hierarchy, will be tainted by their failures to act appropriately for some time to come. As you sow, so shall you reap…and all that.

here is a link to the petition:
change.org/p/change-le-moyne-commencement-speaker-2015?recruiter=277466821&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg

Aside from one comment about “homophobic comments” which seems to me to be related to the scandal, it seems to to be totally dealing with his handling of the sex scandal in Milwaukee. Sorry, but that’s a fair target.

JimR - OCDS Yes, yes you are

Hazen Pingree Clearly not everyone agrees with that assessment…and let’s face it the handling of the sex scandal has itself been a scandal…for His Eminence as well as others

Corki - Maybe the hierarchy has failed the faithful over this entire issue of the sex scandal and this is but part of the price to pay?

Bubba - how many sex offenders did Che move around, protect and try to justify? Just wondering…

I don’t care to comment on most of what you said, but Che Guevara was a monster, i.e., he had no compunctions about killing anyone that stood in the way of his ideology (and that included children/minors).

You know what happens to Cubans who display open hatred of Che?

They get arrested.

When he was still alive, they were executed or herded into slave-labor camps.

So yeah, everyone “loves” him. It’s required by law. Woe to those who disobey State Security.

The human spirit is a powerful force, though, and some Cubans can’t take it. A million and a half fled to the United States to escape the instruments of Che Guevara’s repression, many across the Florida Straits where the odds of survival are no better than two out of three. Others resisted at home, especially during the 1960s, the decade of global rebellion.

“If Cuban Americans strike you as too passionate, over the top, even a little crazy, there is a reason,” Fontova wrote in his Introduction. “Practically every day, we turn on our televisions or go out to the street only to see the image of the very man who trained the secret police to murder our relatives—thousands of men, women, and boys. This man committed many of these murders with his own hands. And yet we see him celebrated everywhere as the quintessence of humanity, progress, and compassion.”

worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/truth-about-che-guevara

 

[ishii]

The younger generation is calling BS to all the old rules. They have a different idea as to what is sin. They are more inclusive than the generations before them. I have taught religion in Catholic schools for more than 20 years. I have observed that you can’t teach Jesus’s love by telling kids who to condemn. They just aren’t buying the "company line’. I personally think that they are thinking outside the box. Is that so bad?

This reminds me of the quote from Bishop Fulton Sheen:

*“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” *

Who is responsible for the wrong perception among the younger generation? I would say it goes back to the homes in which these children were brought up (for the ones who are/were Catholic), as well as our education system, pop culture which has instilled in the younger generation the idea that to call anything morally wrong is to be a “hater.”

Ishii

 

[johnnykins]

Asserting that the cardinal mishandled the homosexual priest problem is meaningless unless if it is backed up with some solid facts.These Children have learned well, however If want to slander a Catholic cleric just drag out the homosexual priest scandal and everybody will applaud you

The facts in Milwaukee are available for all to see and judge…

As to slander…Yes…our Bishops and clergy have taught everyone that lesson…except that it’s not slander at all when it’s the truth. And if it’s not the truth…well, after what we’ve seen far too many times why would anyone believe a bishop or priest on the subject without evidence to the contrary? The past 13+ years have simply driven that point home again, and again and again and again…I no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. And I can’t imagine anyone would given what we’ve all seen…