7 ways to ruin Muslim prayers

[Digitonomy]

Recently I saw a film which included a scene where children at a madrassa were being instructed in prayer. The teacher began explaining that there were seven ways to ruin the prayer, whereupon it cut to the next scene.

Presumably one of the ways would be failure to perform ablutions. What are the other six? Or maybe he meant there are seven ways to ruin the ablutions?

 

[Woodstock]

Invalidators of Prayer

Invalidators of Wudu’

 

[Digitonomy]

Thanks for the links. Apparently 7 is not an absolute, it simply depends on how finely you divide the categories.

In your second link, I read this:

Among the invalidators of wudu’ are:
4.Sleeping without having the buttocks firmly seated, such as sleeping on the stomach, back, and on the side.

I’m at a loss - what other sleeping positions are there?

 

[LilyM]

Thanks for the links. Apparently 7 is not an absolute, it simply depends on how finely you divide the categories.

In your second link, I read this:I’m at a loss - what other sleeping positions are there?

Sounds like flat on the back is the only acceptable sleeping position - no shifiting even a bit towards one side or the other. I guess the only other options are to sleep standing up like a horse or hanging upside down from the rafters like a bat

All sounds rather obsessive-compulsive to me, though I suppose Catholicism is a religion where one can give free reign to OCD as well

 

[Montalban]

Sounds like flat on the back is the only acceptable sleeping position - no shifiting even a bit towards one side or the other. I guess the only other options are to sleep standing up like a horse or hanging upside down from the rafters like a bat

All sounds rather obsessive-compulsive to me, though I suppose Catholicism is a religion where one can give free reign to OCD as well

If you think that’s compulsive, have a look at this
Is there anything wrong with doing wudoo’, drinking or urinating whilst standing?
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2181&ln=eng

Is it haraam to urinate standing up?
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=9790&ln=eng

(Haraam means unlawful)

And this, which I don’t want to give the title to…

islamqa.com/index.php?ref=8603&ln=eng

 

[Digitonomy]

I’m not sure I understand why Montalban has the angry smilie for his post.

I also don’t know that I agree with LilyM’s assessment about sleeping positions: it sounded like lying on the back was not permitted.

Among the invalidators of wudu’ are:
4.Sleeping without having the buttocks firmly seated, such as sleeping on the stomach, back, and on the side.

 

[LilyM]

If you think that’s compulsive, have a look at this
Is there anything wrong with doing wudoo’, drinking or urinating whilst standing?
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2181&ln=eng

Is it haraam to urinate standing up?
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=9790&ln=eng

(Haraam means unlawful)

And this, which I don’t want to give the title to…

islamqa.com/index.php?ref=8603&ln=eng

well if you look around here you’d get ‘is it ok to pray wearing a hat’ ‘is it OK to pray the Rosary or Divine Mercy aloud during Adoration’ ‘is it OK to fall asleep while praying the Rosary’ ‘if you miss a First Friday or Saturday or a day of a Novena do you have to start from the beginning again’ ‘is it OK to pray lying down in bed’ ‘is it OK to take a written list of sins into confession’ ‘is it OK to consume water in church if you don’t strictly desperately need to do so’ - so there’s no lack of such nitpickery here too.

 

[LilyM]

I’m not sure I understand why Montalban has the angry smilie for his post.

I also don’t know that I agree with LilyM’s assessment about sleeping positions: it sounded like lying on the back was not permitted.

Well, we can ask our good Muslim friend lightofeyes, but the only other sleeping position that would fill all this conditions and ALSO not involve lying on your back would be to sleep sitting up

 

[kellie]

well if you look around here you’d get ‘is it ok to pray wearing a hat’ ‘is it OK to pray the Rosary or Divine Mercy aloud during Adoration’ ‘is it OK to fall asleep while praying the Rosary’ ‘if you miss a First Friday or Saturday or a day of a Novena do you have to start from the beginning again’ ‘is it OK to pray lying down in bed’ ‘is it OK to take a written list of sins into confession’ ‘is it OK to consume water in church if you don’t strictly desperately need to do so’ - so there’s no lack of such nitpickery here too.

I kind of agree with you Lily.
Although it does seem weird to see it written down as a rule, I think it is commonsense not to start praying whilst there is the urge to use the bathroom.
It could make for a sincere lack of concentration.
Although I am not sure the prayer would be invalid as they claim, it seems to me just to be a rule set out so prayer is focused on 100%.

 

[Montalban]

well if you look around here you’d get ‘is it ok to pray wearing a hat’ ‘is it OK to pray the Rosary or Divine Mercy aloud during Adoration’ ‘is it OK to fall asleep while praying the Rosary’ ‘if you miss a First Friday or Saturday or a day of a Novena do you have to start from the beginning again’ ‘is it OK to pray lying down in bed’ ‘is it OK to take a written list of sins into confession’ ‘is it OK to consume water in church if you don’t strictly desperately need to do so’ - so there’s no lack of such nitpickery here too.

Not amongst us Orthodox

 

[Montalban]

I kind of agree with you Lily.
Although it does seem weird to see it written down as a rule, I think it is commonsense not to start praying whilst there is the urge to use the bathroom.
It could make for a sincere lack of concentration.
Although I am not sure the prayer would be invalid as they claim, it seems to me just to be a rule set out so prayer is focused on 100%.

But note the second one I cited. It’s not really about prayer but about urinating. The thing is Muhammed did so squatting. The person asking the question wanted to know if doing it standing was unlawful. The actual way you do it; prayer had nothing to do with this.

This is because Islam is that all-encompassing (which is a concept that attracts many people).

 

[Montalban]

I’m not sure I understand why Montalban has the angry smilie for his post.

-]I was commanded to by the voices/-]

I thought that it was to do with the anger of Muslims who don’t want their prayers ruined.

 

[Montalban]

Well, we can ask our good Muslim friend lightofeyes, but the only other sleeping position that would fill all this conditions and ALSO not involve lying on your back would be to sleep sitting up

And in the morning when you get up…

“The Prophet (Muhammed) said, ‘If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.’” (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 4:54:516)
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.516

 

[LilyM]

Not amongst us Orthodox

Well true, but wait till Lent - you’ll have your Meatfare Sundays and Cheesefare Sundays and Old Calendars and New Calendars and goodness knows what mishmash of practices wholly or partially adopted by the poor Eastern Catholics

Sounds like ample opportunity for nitpickery there

 

[Montalban]

Well true, but wait till Lent - you’ll have your Meatfare Sundays and Cheesefare Sundays and Old Calendars and New Calendars and goodness knows what mishmash of practices wholly or partially adopted by the poor Eastern Catholics

Sounds like ample opportunity for nitpickery there

Yeah, fasting was never something Jesus did. I’m soooo ashamed

 

[Woodstock]

Well true, but wait till Lent - you’ll have your Meatfare Sundays and Cheesefare Sundays and Old Calendars and New Calendars and goodness knows what mishmash of practices wholly or partially adopted by the poor Eastern Catholics

Sounds like ample opportunity for nitpickery there

Meatfare and cheesfare: last day of meat before the Great Fast and last day of dairy before the Great Fast. Neither of these are required or obligatory in the East. It is considered a privelege and joy to perform such things as fasting (a very Jewish idea). As such, no chance for OCD.

Old Calendar and new align this year, so no problems there either. Even when they don’t, it isn’t a matter of rules but how the date is calculated.

I wouldn’t call the Eastern Catholic tradition a mishmash or poor. Nor would I use it to minimize or justify the Islamic traditions. Let each stand on its own. Let’s return to the topic of this thread, which is the invalidation of Muslim prayers.

 

[Kadaveri]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy

In your second link, I read this:I’m at a loss - what other sleeping positions are there?

Sounds like flat on the back is the only acceptable sleeping position - no shifiting even a bit towards one side or the other. I guess the only other options are to sleep standing up like a horse or hanging upside down from the rafters like a bat

Just some clarification, the link was listing things which break wudu, not giving ‘permissible sleeping positions’ (there’s nothing wrong with sleeping in any position). The general rule is that after a Muslim has slept they are to perform their ablutions before doing their next ritual prayer, but if they slept sitting down on a chair or something (for whatever reason) then performing abolutions isn’t necessary.

 

[Booklover]

Just some clarification, the link was listing things which break wudu, not giving ‘permissible sleeping positions’ (there’s nothing wrong with sleeping in any position). The general rule is that after a Muslim has slept they are to perform their ablutions before doing their next ritual prayer, but if they slept sitting down on a chair or something (for whatever reason) then performing abolutions isn’t necessary.

Tell me, is there anything spontaneous that Muslims can do, or do you have to look up everything in a book of rules before you can do anything?

This mode of behaviour is for robots or zombies, not rational human beings, but that is what Islam does, it dehumanizes the person and turns him into a slavish zombie, following rules blindly whether they make sense or not! A Christian can pray anytime, any place, and we don’t even have to wash our hands to do it! Muslims are worse than the worst of the Pharisees of Jesus’ time, and he called them “hypocrites!” They were more interested in a clean outside than what was inside!

Mt. 23, 25-28

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You cleanse the outside of cup and dish, but inside they are full of plunder and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may be clean.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of filth. Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing."

Vickie

 

[Kadaveri]

Hi Booklover. Muslims can pray at any time in any place (without washing our hands) just like Christians do, such prayers/personal supplications are called ‘du’a’ in Muslim terms, and are considered to be the most noble act in the eyes of God in Islam. But what’s being referred to here is the specific Islamic ritual prayer/worship (called ‘Salat’); which is quite similar to the Catholic Rosary in many ways if you’re looking for an equivalent. The ritual washing (called wudu) that comes with *Salat *is just another part of it, all with the purpose of keeping the person in a constant state of remembrance of God. Jesus’ saying you’ve quoted there isn’t really relevant to Muslims performing wudu, since it’s primary purpose is remembrance of God, not outward cleaniness. Which is why if a Muslim doesn’t have any water available then they just use earth instead, which wouldn’t be true if the ritual was just about cleaning yourself.

Peace.

 

[Montalban]

Just some clarification, the link was listing things which break wudu, not giving ‘permissible sleeping positions’ (there’s nothing wrong with sleeping in any position). The general rule is that after a Muslim has slept they are to perform their ablutions before doing their next ritual prayer, but if they slept sitting down on a chair or something (for whatever reason) then performing abolutions isn’t necessary.

Morning abolutions; including expelling Satan from your nose