F
Faith101
Guest
The Eurasian said:
uhm…thanks…maybe i’ll try it one day
Indeed, the more I am on this site, the more I appreciate Islam. There really is no god worthy of worship but God alone.
- Status
uhm…thanks…maybe i’ll try it one day
Indeed, the more I am on this site, the more I appreciate Islam. There really is no god worthy of worship but God alone.
E
Emad
Guest
The Eurasian said:
Looks like a very confusing instuction manual to understand God. In Islam it is very simple, no need for me to type a entire page to explain it to you. “There is no god but Allah”.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Dear Emad,
My post earlier on:
What do they do in heaven?
Obviously the concerns of the world do bother them anymore. They enjoy being in the present of God. They worship God, sing harmonious song of praise to Him, together with all the angels of heaven. That’s mainly what they do.
The above explanation and the rest was made in lighter vein.
Maybe I need to clarify further.
Inhabitants of heaven (saints) have no worry for their worldly and bodily needs. Aren’t that beautiful? They don’t hunger, thirst, lust, feel pain, etc. Their bodies are being transformed. They just feel pleasurable. If you don’t have to slog for your needs like what you do on earth, then what do you have to do? Nothing, in that regards.
But what they do in heaven is serving God. Specifically serving God = worshipping God. This is done by the multitude of people together. Worship as service to God delights Him.
Indirectly by worshipping God, we actually declare “I believe in You. I am Yours. You are my Lord and God”.
Why is this declaration important? Because there are 2 powers who claim the worship of the people. God and Satan (the Pretender to the Throne of God). There are people who worship Satan. This displease God ‘cos it is false. It does not further the cause of God Kingdom. Therefore, worshipping God is a service to Him.
Other services to God, of course, include all actions that give glory to Him (this is spiritual jargon. I’ll leave it at that)
Hope that helps.
Peace.
Reuben.
My post earlier on:
What do they do in heaven?
Obviously the concerns of the world do bother them anymore. They enjoy being in the present of God. They worship God, sing harmonious song of praise to Him, together with all the angels of heaven. That’s mainly what they do.
The above explanation and the rest was made in lighter vein.
Maybe I need to clarify further.
Inhabitants of heaven (saints) have no worry for their worldly and bodily needs. Aren’t that beautiful? They don’t hunger, thirst, lust, feel pain, etc. Their bodies are being transformed. They just feel pleasurable. If you don’t have to slog for your needs like what you do on earth, then what do you have to do? Nothing, in that regards.
But what they do in heaven is serving God. Specifically serving God = worshipping God. This is done by the multitude of people together. Worship as service to God delights Him.
Indirectly by worshipping God, we actually declare “I believe in You. I am Yours. You are my Lord and God”.
Why is this declaration important? Because there are 2 powers who claim the worship of the people. God and Satan (the Pretender to the Throne of God). There are people who worship Satan. This displease God ‘cos it is false. It does not further the cause of God Kingdom. Therefore, worshipping God is a service to Him.
Other services to God, of course, include all actions that give glory to Him (this is spiritual jargon. I’ll leave it at that)
Hope that helps.
Peace.
Reuben.
L
leo123
Guest
My experience of the simplicity of Islam comes form the fact taht no-one questions it. I lived in saudi arabia for 16 years and never once met anyone who did anything other than blindly accept.
There is a lot of complexity in God, even as Muslims portray Him.
GB
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Faith:
The consequence of sin without repentence (and God’s mercy) is Hell. This goes for both Christianity and Islam. HOwever, Christianity adds the concept of “the scapegoate” to take man’s sin.
Reuben:
“Scapegoat” is simplistic term but okay, it does give the message. To the Christians, here lies the mystery of God’s love. When Christians say God is all-loving like you Muslims do, this is what we meant. God love us so much that He gave His only son for us so that we can live. And that love meant that, even if there is only person, say either you or me, need to be saved in this world (say if the others are all righteous), He would still gave His only son.
Actually, if He wants to, He can just forgive and make it easy, without going into all the trouble. In fact He just can wipe all the sins away in this world. That’s also love and forgiveness. Christians’ understanding of His love is much more than that.
In order to love, you need to give even if it pains you. For example, I can say I love my son, and if he in danger of death, and the only way I can save him is with my own life. What would I do? Depending on how much I love him, I can give my life and thus save him, or preferred not to, but still love him anyhow. The depth of our love depended on how much we can give. When I know my God loves me with His own life, it spurs me into doing things unimaginable to love Him.
*Faith:
I am content knowing that I am born free from sin…and that the only sin i will be held accountable for is the one that i have made with my own hands. I am content knowing that if I repent, I am forgiven…a 100 or a 1000 times. I am content knowing that God loves me without Him having to come down and die.
*
Reuben:
A new born child is pure, and if dies at that stage would surely go to heaven. Christians call to saints small children who died as a result of no fault of their own.
In Christianity perspective, the coming of Jesus is not purely to obliterate the original sin in us. Nevertheless the effect of the original sin make us humans for what we are – prone to sin. We sin because that’s our instinctive nature. Even if we understand what is good and want to do it, sometimes our human nature just do the opposite. This internal conflict many times leads us to sin, even for very holy people. The evil one exploits this. Once we go deeper into sin, he entraps us – under bondages.
Jesus’ death and resurrection break this clutch of the evil one. Jesus came to give life and life in abundance. We often see people who are rich and healthy but yet have no life in them. They worry, angry, bitter, resenting, burdened, unhappy and have no peace. This makes them susceptible all the more to sin. Jesus can change all that and free us from these burdens, so that we can experience a life that is totally free. We know people; for example, who suffer extensive child abuse by their parents and when grow up can never forgive them. They are filled with bitterness and this influenced their attitude on other things. They rebel, become unreasonable or even commit murder.
What is the use of repentance, only to sin again and again and again? And what happen if we were to die in a state of grave sin? To Christians, Jesus is the answer.
Faith:
You are a kind and respectable human being…I appreciate that.
Reuben:
Thanks Faith. And so are you.
Peace.
God bless you.
Reuben
The consequence of sin without repentence (and God’s mercy) is Hell. This goes for both Christianity and Islam. HOwever, Christianity adds the concept of “the scapegoate” to take man’s sin.
Reuben:
“Scapegoat” is simplistic term but okay, it does give the message. To the Christians, here lies the mystery of God’s love. When Christians say God is all-loving like you Muslims do, this is what we meant. God love us so much that He gave His only son for us so that we can live. And that love meant that, even if there is only person, say either you or me, need to be saved in this world (say if the others are all righteous), He would still gave His only son.
Actually, if He wants to, He can just forgive and make it easy, without going into all the trouble. In fact He just can wipe all the sins away in this world. That’s also love and forgiveness. Christians’ understanding of His love is much more than that.
In order to love, you need to give even if it pains you. For example, I can say I love my son, and if he in danger of death, and the only way I can save him is with my own life. What would I do? Depending on how much I love him, I can give my life and thus save him, or preferred not to, but still love him anyhow. The depth of our love depended on how much we can give. When I know my God loves me with His own life, it spurs me into doing things unimaginable to love Him.
*Faith:
I am content knowing that I am born free from sin…and that the only sin i will be held accountable for is the one that i have made with my own hands. I am content knowing that if I repent, I am forgiven…a 100 or a 1000 times. I am content knowing that God loves me without Him having to come down and die.
*
Reuben:
A new born child is pure, and if dies at that stage would surely go to heaven. Christians call to saints small children who died as a result of no fault of their own.
In Christianity perspective, the coming of Jesus is not purely to obliterate the original sin in us. Nevertheless the effect of the original sin make us humans for what we are – prone to sin. We sin because that’s our instinctive nature. Even if we understand what is good and want to do it, sometimes our human nature just do the opposite. This internal conflict many times leads us to sin, even for very holy people. The evil one exploits this. Once we go deeper into sin, he entraps us – under bondages.
Jesus’ death and resurrection break this clutch of the evil one. Jesus came to give life and life in abundance. We often see people who are rich and healthy but yet have no life in them. They worry, angry, bitter, resenting, burdened, unhappy and have no peace. This makes them susceptible all the more to sin. Jesus can change all that and free us from these burdens, so that we can experience a life that is totally free. We know people; for example, who suffer extensive child abuse by their parents and when grow up can never forgive them. They are filled with bitterness and this influenced their attitude on other things. They rebel, become unreasonable or even commit murder.
What is the use of repentance, only to sin again and again and again? And what happen if we were to die in a state of grave sin? To Christians, Jesus is the answer.
Faith:
You are a kind and respectable human being…I appreciate that.
Reuben:
Thanks Faith. And so are you.
Peace.
God bless you.
Reuben
R
Reuben_J
Guest
oops sorry. that post should be in another thread.
Reuben
Reuben
E
Emad
Guest
No one is supposed to accept Islam blindly. The Quran asks us to question things. Many times Allah asks in the Quran “Don’t they think?” “Don’t they see, hear, reflect etc” You are right when you say there is a lot of complexity in God, however the concept of God in Islam is very simple compared to His concept in Christianity. I am speaking of the basic concepts. By the way, please feel free to ask all the questions you want about God.
T
The_Eurasian
Guest
EmadNo one is supposed to accept Islam blindly. The Quran asks us to question things. Many times Allah asks in the Quran “Don’t they think?” “Don’t they see, hear, reflect etc” You are right when you say there is a lot of complexity in God, however the concept of God in Islam is very simple compared to His concept in Christianity. I am speaking of the basic concepts. By the way, please feel free to ask all the questions you want about God.
If God is as simple as Emad says God is.
And if this GREAT God is much more complex than an internet computer,
THEN WITH ALL THIS SIMPLICITY EMAD CAN MAKE AN INTERNET COMPUTER, SOFTWARE, HARDWARE, PARTS, ALL THAT!!!
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Thanks Emad. I guess I have to accept your explanation if you think you have given me a correct understanding of Islam on this thing.
But looking back at what I wrote regarding this issue, I hope you will agree with me that I have raised a vital question regarding the viability of this particular doctrine, if I may say so. I thought you’re going to rebut it more at length, for I think I had made a serius allegation.
Anyway, thanks all the same.
Peace.
God bless.
Reuben
E
Emad
Guest
The Eurasian said:
What???
Read this: whyislam.org/877/Services/Literature/16.asp
It explains the concept of God in Islam. Also listen to this lecture: whyislam.org/877/multimedia/purpose1.ram
After listening to the lecture and reading the article please feel free to ask any questions you may have.
B
Booklover
Guest
Do you really believe that the concept of a God who created anything can be simple? Do you then believe that you can understand everything about God??No one is supposed to accept Islam blindly. The Quran asks us to question things. Many times Allah asks in the Quran “Don’t they think?” “Don’t they see, hear, reflect etc” You are right when you say there is a lot of complexity in God, however the concept of God in Islam is very simple compared to His concept in Christianity. I am speaking of the basic concepts. By the way, please feel free to ask all the questions you want about God.
T
The_Eurasian
Guest
Emad, Faith 101
I am looking at all these posted messages that we all have made, Muslims believe in only one God. But they want to see God in the simple version like the sumary of a book perhaps. But Catholics also believe just like the Muslims that the is only ONE LIVING GOD. You have been posting messages here for a long time already. DID YOU EVER HEAR ANY CATHOLIC HERE IN THIS CATHOLIC ANSWERS FORUM SAT TO YOU THAT THERE ARE THREE GODS??? NO. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS, CATHOLICS SAID THERE IS ONLY ONE LIVING GOD.
There are many many Christian religions, over 27,000 of them. BUT VERY FEW OF THEM HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. CATHOLICS HONOR THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. MUSLIMS HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR MARY.
Muslims believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Catholics also believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus
Jesus is a prophet to Muslims. So also to Catholics. As true man, Jesus is also a prophet to Catholics.
In our talks here, some Muslims have said that perhaps those 72 virgins in Islam are not really for sex but simply are to emphasize how nice, pleasant heaven will be.
Well, you may not realize it, BUT AMONG THE THOUSANDS OF RELIGIONS IN THE WORLD, THE ONE AND ONLY RELIGION THAT HAS MUCH IN COMMON WITH ISLAM IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THAT’S WHY MUSLIMS AND CATHOLICS CAN TALK POLITELY HERE IN THIS FORUM.
I am looking at all these posted messages that we all have made, Muslims believe in only one God. But they want to see God in the simple version like the sumary of a book perhaps. But Catholics also believe just like the Muslims that the is only ONE LIVING GOD. You have been posting messages here for a long time already. DID YOU EVER HEAR ANY CATHOLIC HERE IN THIS CATHOLIC ANSWERS FORUM SAT TO YOU THAT THERE ARE THREE GODS??? NO. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS, CATHOLICS SAID THERE IS ONLY ONE LIVING GOD.
There are many many Christian religions, over 27,000 of them. BUT VERY FEW OF THEM HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. CATHOLICS HONOR THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. MUSLIMS HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR MARY.
Muslims believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Catholics also believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus
Jesus is a prophet to Muslims. So also to Catholics. As true man, Jesus is also a prophet to Catholics.
In our talks here, some Muslims have said that perhaps those 72 virgins in Islam are not really for sex but simply are to emphasize how nice, pleasant heaven will be.
Well, you may not realize it, BUT AMONG THE THOUSANDS OF RELIGIONS IN THE WORLD, THE ONE AND ONLY RELIGION THAT HAS MUCH IN COMMON WITH ISLAM IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THAT’S WHY MUSLIMS AND CATHOLICS CAN TALK POLITELY HERE IN THIS FORUM.
E
Emad
Guest
No that is not what I meant. There is nothing confusing about the concept of God in Islam. Ofcourse no one can understand God completely. Everything we do know about God (His names and attributes) in Islam is acceptable to the mind and easy to understand.
E
Eetaq
Guest
I think what is meant by ‘god is simple’ is that its not something that you have to grasp to understand.
Its clear and simple, one god, all powerful, no sons, no daughters, no mother no father, all things in existence are his creation, independant from time, etc…
So basically its all straightforward, and its all right there spelled out for you.
Its clear and simple, one god, all powerful, no sons, no daughters, no mother no father, all things in existence are his creation, independant from time, etc…
So basically its all straightforward, and its all right there spelled out for you.
T
tuopaolo
Guest
The Christian understanding of God (and this is a dogma in our Catholic faith) is that God is simple – meaning that He is not composed of parts (like for example how your body is composed of parts or how a musical composition may be composed of different parts). This attribute of God is referred to as simplicity.
This is of course a different use of the term “simple” than using it to mean other things (for example “simple-minded” or “very simple to understand”)
This is of course a different use of the term “simple” than using it to mean other things (for example “simple-minded” or “very simple to understand”)
E
Eetaq
Guest
Well this is hard for me to understand, because God is three.
What is the trinity? How does it work if it isnt parts?
What is the trinity? How does it work if it isnt parts?
T
The_Eurasian
Guest
Eetaq-----Post #96:
I have an example which is not Catholic where your belt which has two sides will end up having only one side. See Eurasian post # 79 and Post 80 above
Be patient because the example in posts 79 and 80 will help you.
This example is actually used in tape recorders that have an endless loop where the two sides are one side.
I will proceed with an example of 3 to 1 model once you understand the VERY SIMPLE MODEL in Posts #79 and #80, and clarify further.
Eetag
I have an example which is not Catholic where your belt which has two sides will end up having only one side. See Eurasian post # 79 and Post 80 above
Be patient because the example in posts 79 and 80 will help you.
This example is actually used in tape recorders that have an endless loop where the two sides are one side.
I will proceed with an example of 3 to 1 model once you understand the VERY SIMPLE MODEL in Posts #79 and #80, and clarify further.
F
Faith101
Guest
Peace Leo
We are not supposed to blindly accept. For then how can we truly appreciate our faith?
The first word revealed to mohamed (pbuh) was READ. Seeking knowledge is something that is not only permissible in Islam…but is MANDATORY for every muslim man and woman.
Praise Allah, many Americans are doing just that, and after their studies, are finding their way to God through submission to the Creator (Islam)
Again, we, as Muslims, do not understand everything about God. No one is gong to tell you that we know everything about Him.
But what we know is what HE reveals about Himself. And He is ONE, unique. No one is like him, and He does not beget nor is He begotten.
F
Faith101
Guest
I think this is the 100th time i’m saying this.
Muslims do NOT claim to undestand everythign about God. Maybe saying and repeating this makes you more comfortable with the 3=1 concept ?
There are over 1.2 billion people on this earth who believe that there is no god worthy of worship but God alone. They do not believe that Jesus is his son, they do not believe that Jesus is God…and consequently arent doing brain gymnastics to understand the concept of God.
I admit, I do not understand EVERYTHING in Islam. That is primarily due to my lack of knoweldge (i’m working on it). However, the foundation of my belief is set in stone. I understand it. There is no uneasiness in it.
The foundation of Christianity is largely based on a concept that NO ONE understands compeletly. And when questioned, analogy after analogy is given. When all the analogies have been fatigued and the concept is still not clearly explained. The conversation ends with a “you just have to have faith” “God is not as simple as you state” "Jesus died for YOU, how could you not believe in ihim? or something like that.
You can build a beautiful and sturdy house, but without a foundation, it is sure to crumble.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
*Emad:
Reuben:
Hi Emad, this is the final portion of my answer in response to your challenge. I’ve waited before I posted this reply because I already answered your other two challenges. I don’t wish to crowd this thread because you might overlook or miss my answers.
They are written according to my own words in respect for you, and by my own little knowledge. Nevertheless, on issues as basic as these, I think Christianity should be able to stand on its own before I refer to the experts. I will though, if I think I could not address them sufficiently.
Okay here goes. To the Christians, the Bible offers them a complete way of life. It is a living Word that can address any situation that one faced in one’s daily life. Because it is God’s Word, it is true and acts like a double-edge sword that will destroy all lies of the evil one.
Jesus taught by His words and by the way He lived His life (action). Believers of the Bible will live accordingly. We are governed by the value of the Bible not only through direct teachings but to emulate on the example of the life lived by the appropriate personalities found in the Bible.
I have addressed the mentioned specific ways of life as taught by the Bible by giving some biblical references as requested. The teaching of the Bible however does not based exclusively on the strength of one particular biblical verse, which can be taken out of context and subjected to various interpretations, but rather on the biblical value as a whole.
This value must be consistent with the nature of Christian’s God who is true to His people and to Himself.
Please take your time to go through this and the previous two answers I gave you, and if you like, you may rebut them accordingly.
Example how the Bible teaches me to eat:
**Mathew chapter 8: 10-12
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ "
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”
Matthew 15:17-19
17"Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.**
Some of the old laws of Moses like prohibition of eating certain foods are superceded by the new law of Jesus which is based on love. This is necessary because people focus too much on the observance of the law, but forget the spirit of the law to which it is originally intended. Thus Jesus by giving the new commandment emphasized what’s more important – the spirit of the law.
What goes into one’s mouth doesn’t matter much because it will comes out as waste, but what comes out of one’s mouth (our speech for example).
When we eat we give thank to God because it come from Him through His goodness. Thus before we eat we say a prayer asking God to bless the food and acknowledge that it’s from His bounty. In this way the food will become a source of nutrition not only for the body but also for the soul. After eating, we also say a prayer thanking God for the food eaten.
Example how the Bible teaches me to sleep:
Ephesians 4:25
Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry…
Do not bring your anger after the sun goes down. We go to sleep only after we reconcile with people around us, with ourselves and with God. As the case maybe, reconciliation involved giving forgiveness to those who have wronged us, examination of conscience on what we have done wrong during the day so that we can repent before God and then have a good night rest and be refreshed the day after.
- It gives me a complete way of life.
Reuben:
Hi Emad, this is the final portion of my answer in response to your challenge. I’ve waited before I posted this reply because I already answered your other two challenges. I don’t wish to crowd this thread because you might overlook or miss my answers.
They are written according to my own words in respect for you, and by my own little knowledge. Nevertheless, on issues as basic as these, I think Christianity should be able to stand on its own before I refer to the experts. I will though, if I think I could not address them sufficiently.
Okay here goes. To the Christians, the Bible offers them a complete way of life. It is a living Word that can address any situation that one faced in one’s daily life. Because it is God’s Word, it is true and acts like a double-edge sword that will destroy all lies of the evil one.
Jesus taught by His words and by the way He lived His life (action). Believers of the Bible will live accordingly. We are governed by the value of the Bible not only through direct teachings but to emulate on the example of the life lived by the appropriate personalities found in the Bible.
I have addressed the mentioned specific ways of life as taught by the Bible by giving some biblical references as requested. The teaching of the Bible however does not based exclusively on the strength of one particular biblical verse, which can be taken out of context and subjected to various interpretations, but rather on the biblical value as a whole.
This value must be consistent with the nature of Christian’s God who is true to His people and to Himself.
Please take your time to go through this and the previous two answers I gave you, and if you like, you may rebut them accordingly.
Example how the Bible teaches me to eat:
**Mathew chapter 8: 10-12
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ "
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”
Matthew 15:17-19
17"Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.**
Some of the old laws of Moses like prohibition of eating certain foods are superceded by the new law of Jesus which is based on love. This is necessary because people focus too much on the observance of the law, but forget the spirit of the law to which it is originally intended. Thus Jesus by giving the new commandment emphasized what’s more important – the spirit of the law.
What goes into one’s mouth doesn’t matter much because it will comes out as waste, but what comes out of one’s mouth (our speech for example).
When we eat we give thank to God because it come from Him through His goodness. Thus before we eat we say a prayer asking God to bless the food and acknowledge that it’s from His bounty. In this way the food will become a source of nutrition not only for the body but also for the soul. After eating, we also say a prayer thanking God for the food eaten.
Example how the Bible teaches me to sleep:
Ephesians 4:25
Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry…
Do not bring your anger after the sun goes down. We go to sleep only after we reconcile with people around us, with ourselves and with God. As the case maybe, reconciliation involved giving forgiveness to those who have wronged us, examination of conscience on what we have done wrong during the day so that we can repent before God and then have a good night rest and be refreshed the day after.
- Status