79 Year Old Nun convicted of sexual abuse

[jazzbaby1]

I agree except that, 12 to 13 year old boys, from my experience, are well into the desire for girls. Some mature at different levels, but from what I remember about myself and my junior high friends, we all desired girls by this age.

Also, an older female, I would think would’ve seen the boys as being on the sexually mature side of the scale, for her to have an interest with them.

I generally don’t cite Dr. Phil for anything, but there was a show he did on child molestation that speaks to what you said above. A grandfather molested his IIRC four year old granddaughter because he said,“I looked into her eyes and it was like I was looking into the eyes of a twenty year old.” She wasn’t twenty, though, she was four. The grandfather projected his own sickness onto her. Even if the nun perceived the boys to be “sexually mature,” they were still only 12 and 13. Her interest in them wasn’t because of them but because of her own disordered thinking. These boys are victims. Please stop trying to blame them for being dragged into the complex world of adult sexuality by someone who was supposed to be teaching them to be chaste.

And yes, this was a criminal act on her part. But what will it serve for her to go to jail, at age 79?

Jim

That is a question for the criminal court to decide. Pray for justice and God’s will to be done in her case and then leave it to Him.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

thechrismyster:
The point is whether justice is really going to be served by throwing her into a minimum security prison.

Jim

 

[thechrismyster]

The point is whether justice is really going to be served by throwing her into a minimum security prison.

Jim

the level of containment is in line with the risk involved with containing her. minumum is not a degree of punishment. minumum security just means they don’t feel as though shes a risk to put a shank into a guard’s neck. but she will still be incarcerated to pay her debt.

 

[system]

The disgrace and humiliation I would think would be payment enough.

Good thing you’re not a judge!

I worked in a Catholic school were some boys were sexually abused. Some abusers were male, some were female, some were religious, some laypersons.

People’s natural reaction (and wishful thinking) is that, “NO!” This couldn’t happen here! or, That Priest is SO NICE! He couldn’t hurt a fly!

I remember a case where the details were first revealed by the victim when he was in rehab for dug/alcohol addiction. People would say - “you can’t believe that kid! He’s a druggie!” When in fact, it was his overwhelming shame and guilt that got him into drinking and drugs to begin with.

Also, those who understand addictions will know that for many addicts, the rehab, or other recovery environment, is often the first time an alcoholic or addict will talk about their worst secrets.

I also worked at the time when the initial reaction to abuse was changing from “sweep it under the carpet” to “Lawyer up, talk to the media, send out letters, put the person on immediate leave and then, oh yeah, talk to the police after all of the above.”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

jazzbaby

I generally don’t cite Dr. Phil for anything, but there was a show he did on child molestation that speaks to what you said above. A grandfather molested his IIRC four year old granddaughter because he said,“I looked into her eyes and it was like I was looking into the eyes of a twenty year old.” She wasn’t twenty, though, she was four. The grandfather projected his own sickness onto her.

There’s a big difference between a grandfather molesting a four year old girl and a woman having sex with a 12-13 year old boy.

Even if the nun perceived the boys to be “sexually mature,” they were still only 12 and 13.
Her interest in them wasn’t because of them but because of her own disordered thinking.

Of course, she was wrong, I never said anything different.

These boys are victims. Please stop trying to blame them for being dragged into the complex world of adult sexuality by someone who was supposed to be teaching them to be chaste.

I’m not blaming them for what happen.

I’m merely questioning their motive, for acting now, 40 years later.

That is a question for the criminal court to decide. Pray for justice and God’s will to be done in her case and then leave it to Him.

We make the laws the courts are to uphold. We have a right to question whether justice is being served or not.

Jim

 

[system]

I’m merely questioning their motive, for acting now, 40 years later.

Jim

I know a man who did a terrible thing in June 1944 in France. I think it was D-Day plus 4.

He never told a soul until 2002. Do you think it bothered him in the intervening 58 years?

A couple times on CAF, I have seen some of what could be called, “apologists for abusers.” You’re starting to sound like them.

 

[thechrismyster]

I’m merely questioning their motive, for acting now, 40 years later.

their motives are completely a non-issue.
The nun will pay for acts of child abuse she committed. regardless of their motives, she performed the crime by her own hand, and she must be made to pay the penalty in kind.

the motives of accusers who rightfully accuse are not called into question because they are not what is being put on trial. it is the actions of the criminal we punish.

why is this hard for people to understand? when someone breaks a law, and society prescribes a remedy, it is the DUTY of every citizen to uphold the punishments prescribed.

 

[thechrismyster]

There’s a big difference between a grandfather molesting a four year old girl and a woman having sex with a 12-13 year old boy.

only to jackie chiles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/JackieChiles.jpg

“my client only molested an 11 year old boy, to consider that the same as molesting a 4 year old girls is outrageous, egregious and superfluous.”

 

[whatevergirl]

I know a man who did a terrible thing in June 1944 in France. I think it was D-Day plus 4.

He never told a soul until 2002. Do you think it bothered him in the intervening 58 years?

A couple times on CAF, I have seen some of what could be called, “apologists for abusers.” You’re starting to sound like them.

I don’t know if I’d view it like that, as much as an apologist for female abusers…like there is an assumption, in society, in general–that a male could never be a ‘victim’ of sexual/physical abuse by a woman. And, I am not sure where that thinking comes in. If it were a woman alleging that a priest had assaulted her 40 years ago, and she was too ashamed to bring it forward until now, society would be lynching the priest. There should not be a lynching of this 79 yr old nun, either–not my point. My point is that because she is female, that’s where people think she couldn’t have been abusive or threatening, as if a male were in her shoes, and I think that we need to show the same respect for boys who are put through this type of thing.

For example, there was a lot of banter in the media…when some of those good looking female young teachers recently were found guilty for having relations with their male students–and the ‘joke’ was…‘wow, where were those teachers when I was a kid?’ (made by male newscasters, talk show hosts, etc…at that time. What kind of a remark is that? If those were men, hitting on female students, the media would have had a different spin.

Mary Kay Letourneau…sad situation there. Oh, but she was in love with her 12 year old male student, when she was in her late 20’s, early 30’s. See, again–a double standard. Now, she served jail time, but the media spun that as a love story for her, rather than the fact that she was a pedophile.

Just wanted to add this, because I wonder if this were a priest, if this thread would have any apologetic type speech within it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

whatevergirl

For example, there was a lot of banter in the media…when some of those good looking female young teachers recently were found guilty for having relations with their male students–and the ‘joke’ was…‘wow, where were those teachers when I was a kid?’ (made by male newscasters, talk show hosts, etc…at that time.

This is the point I’ve been trying to make. Males handle the event of a sexual experience with and adult female, differently and with little consequence, than that of a young female with and adult male.

and… yes, we would be more outraged if it was a priest who had abused a 13 year old girl.

Its a double standard, but thats life. I think its a matter of the level of damage that is caused to both victims. The males, for the most part, aren’t affected, where for the females, its devastating. For males, its a badge of honor among their peers, to have had sex with an older woman. They’ll even brag about it. Females, will feel shame and suffer from the effects. They’ll often not talk about it. Also, the bigger difference is that for females, the sex was more often than not, forced on them, whereas the males, it was not, but even welcomed.

Jim

 

[thechrismyster]

This is the point I’ve been trying to make. Males handle the event of a sexual experience with and adult female, differently and with little consequence, than that of a young female with and adult male.

its the job of the law to treat them the same. ther is no double standard in criminal prosecution.

notice the blindfold. all is weighed evenly. no bias.

http://www.nj-attorney.com/images/main_blind.jpg

 

[jazzbaby1]

This is the point I’ve been trying to make. Males handle the event of a sexual experience with and adult female, differently and with little consequence, than that of a young female with and adult male.

and… yes, we would be more outraged if it was a priest who had abused a 13 year old girl.

Its a double standard, but thats life. I think its a matter of the level of damage that is caused to both victims. The males, for the most part, aren’t affected, where for the females, its devastating. For males, its a badge of honor among their peers, to have had sex with an older woman. They’ll even brag about it. Females, will feel shame and suffer from the effects. They’ll often not talk about it. Also, the bigger difference is that for females, the sex was more often than not, forced on them, whereas the males, it was not, but even welcomed.

Jim

Jim, I appreciate what you’re trying to say. What I’m trying to say is that God created male and female with equal dignity and that the difference in “damage” is imposed by society. We should treat our sons with the same dignity of chastity and virginity as we do our daughters; we should expect the same safeguards for them. That boys will brag over a sexual conquest to their peers is a measure of our failure to protect them from a society that seeks to dismiss their emotional lives as meaningless and worth less than nothing to God. I pray to the Lord, not the Lord of the Flies. If we want the men they grow into to protect the dignity of their wives and daughters then we need to protect them when they are children and not accept second best for them because “boys will be boys.” Do you think that God dismisses this violation of two of His children because our culture tells us that they will welcome the abuse?

 

[whatevergirl]

whatevergirl

This is the point I’ve been trying to make. Males handle the event of a sexual experience with and adult female, differently and with little consequence, than that of a young female with and adult male.

and… yes, we would be more outraged if it was a priest who had abused a 13 year old girl.

Its a double standard, but thats life. I think its a matter of the level of damage that is caused to both victims. The males, for the most part, aren’t affected, where for the females, its devastating. For males, its a badge of honor among their peers, to have had sex with an older woman. They’ll even brag about it. Females, will feel shame and suffer from the effects. They’ll often not talk about it. Also, the bigger difference is that for females, the sex was more often than not, forced on them, whereas the males, it was not, but even welcomed.

Jim

No doubt that there are biological facts that differentiate boys and girls…especially teenage boys and girls. But, does that mean a nun, teacher, or any other authority figure should be allowed to exploit that? Biologically speaking, the boys didn’t know what to do…one thing led to another–they might have “accepted” the advances (I don’t like your use of the term welcomed) but…again, grown women shouldn’t be taking advantage of boys when they are in a vulnerable state, emotionally and physically. My son shouldn’t have to go to school and deal with his teacher coming on to him…no way. Doesn’t matter what is in his mind–it matters that he would even be having to face such a situation! And these boys were still KIDS.

That’s my point. Biologically, we are different, but young boys do not deserve to be put into a situation that exploits their vulnerability.

 

[whatevergirl]

Jim, I appreciate what you’re trying to say. What I’m trying to say is that God created male and female with equal dignity and that the difference in “damage” is imposed by society. We should treat our sons with the same dignity of chastity and virginity as we do our daughters; we should expect the same safeguards for them. That boys will brag over a sexual conquest to their peers is a measure of our failure to protect them from a society that seeks to dismiss their emotional lives as meaningless and worth less than nothing to God. I pray to the Lord, not the Lord of the Flies. If we want the men they grow into to protect the dignity of their wives and daughters then we need to protect them when they are children and not accept second best for them because “boys will be boys.” Do you think that God dismisses this violation of two of His children because our culture tells us that they will welcome the abuse?

There is utterly no proof that these boys (now men) welcomed the abuse, but I know what you’re saying in response to Jim.

 

[system]

** The males, for the most part, aren’t affected, where for the females, its devastating. For males, its a badge of honor among their peers, to have had sex with an older woman. They’ll even brag about it.**

**OK - so it is clear you did not visit the sites offered to you to educate yourself in the matter.

I wonder why not?

Well, until you do, you’ll keep saying and believing the same thing…really defeats the purpose of a discussion and shows we’re wasting our breath.

Click and read here - I dare ya!
malesurvivor.org/myths.html**

7 myths - I think you’ve stated most of them today

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I totally understand what Jim is saying, and I believe that society has done this to boys. My own dh is always jumping on the “I’d be bragging to my friends if it was me” bandwagon whenever another story about an abusive female teacher breaks (like the recent one that took her 13 y/o student to Mexico) (I wonder if they’d be bragging if the teacher was ugly? I’m betting then they’d be crying “abuse” from the get go!). This is NOT how the God created us. Yes, men and women are equal in dignity, and we all should be virgins on our wedding nights (or forever, if we aren’t called to marriage), and emotional damage IS done, whether we initially realize it or not (sometimes it takes years) when we’re not, even when we willingly give ourselves up. So, yes, I also agree w/ the others who’ve said that boys are just as emotionally damaged as girls by this, but society, until recently, hasn’t really “allowed” them to admit it (how many boys would be questioned about their sexuality, by their friends and maybe even parents, if they admitted that they didn’t enjoy the sex and it’s made them feel horrible and depressed?).

What I want to know is why are the media and society only now taking an “all abusers are created equal” approach when it involves a Catholic nun? Didn’t the article state that she’s looking at possibly 20 years (I can’t remember)? Those pretty young public school teachers all seem to get a few months in jail (at the most), maybe some house arrest, and probation (and Mary Kay Letourneau got out and MARRIED her “victim”-and I only put that in quotes b/c can you really call him that now that he’s her husband? ). Everytime I watch a debate about one of those teachers (and Bill O’Reilly seems to be the only commentator that thinks they should be treated the same as male child abusers), I’m always amazed at the “apologists” and think “If that was a priest-even a young, handsome priest-and whether the victim was male or female-they’d be calling for his head and suing the Church for a million dollars!”

And this case just proved my point (and it wasn’t even a priest).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[whatevergirl]

I totally understand what Jim is saying, and I believe that society has done this to boys. My own dh is always jumping on the “I’d be bragging to my friends if it was me” bandwagon whenever another story about an abusive female teacher breaks (like the recent one that took her 13 y/o student to Mexico) (I wonder if they’d be bragging if the teacher was ugly? I’m betting then they’d be crying “abuse” from the get go!). This is NOT how the God created us. Yes, men and women are equal in dignity, and we all should be virgins on our wedding nights (or forever, if we aren’t called to marriage), and emotional damage IS done, whether we initially realize it or not (sometimes it takes years) when we’re not, even when we willingly give ourselves up. So, yes, I also agree w/ the others who’ve said that boys are just as emotionally damaged as girls by this, but society, until recently, hasn’t really “allowed” them to admit it (how many boys would be questioned about their sexuality, by their friends and maybe even parents, if they admitted that they didn’t enjoy the sex and it’s made them feel horrible and depressed?).

What I want to know is why are the media and society only now taking an “all abusers are created equal” approach when it involves a Catholic nun? Didn’t the article state that she’s looking at possibly 20 years (I can’t remember)? Those pretty young public school teachers all seem to get a few months in jail (at the most), maybe some house arrest, and probation (and Mary Kay Letourneau got out and MARRIED her “victim”-and I only put that in quotes b/c can you really call him that now that he’s her husband? ). Everytime I watch a debate about one of those teachers (and Bill O’Reilly seems to be the only commentator that thinks they should be treated the same as male child abusers), I’m always amazed at the “apologists” and think “If that was a priest-even a young, handsome priest-and whether the victim was male or female-they’d be calling for his head and suing the Church for a million dollars!”

And this case just proved my point (and it wasn’t even a priest).

In Christ,

Ellen

Hi Ellen–I enjoyed your post! Makes good sense. True, the media and the like make it look like a great honor for a man to be sowing his oats, while a woman in the same spot, is seen as easy. Double standards all over the place. But, a boy can climax biologically…but still be ashamed by the fact that they were coerced into the activity.

 

[JimG]

What I want to know is why are the media and society only now taking an “all abusers are created equal” approach when it involves a Catholic nun? Didn’t the article state that she’s looking at possibly 20 years (I can’t remember)? Those pretty young public school teachers all seem to get a few months in jail (at the most), maybe some house arrest, and probation (and Mary Kay Letourneau got out and MARRIED her “victim”-and I only put that in quotes b/c can you really call him that now that he’s her husband? ).

A good point. Somehow I’m thinking the punishment would have been different had it been a 79 yr old public school teacher.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

**OK - so it is clear you did not visit the sites offered to you to educate yourself in the matter.

I wonder why not?

Well, until you do, you’ll keep saying and believing the same thing…really defeats the purpose of a discussion and shows we’re wasting our breath.

Click and read here - I dare ya!
malesurvivor.org/myths.html**

7 myths - I think you’ve stated most of them today

The majority of the sexual abuse cases dealt with in the article have to do with adult male on boy sexual abuse, and I have already said, that these cases are severely damaging. Only one deals with adult female on boy sexual abuse and it includes mothers and aunts, with their boys which can cause confusion for a boy and this is damaging. I’m not talking about those cases, but rather, one like in the case of this thread. Also, my skepticism isn’t that there was no harm caused by this nun, but rather, to what degree of harm did it actually cause, and what is the motive for the two males to come forward now and make the charges?

Also, your article also isn’t stating what age the boys are, or at least, I didn’t see it.

Have you met males who had sex with adult females, back when they were between 12 and 18 years of age? I’ve met plenty, because they bragged about it. I also remember clearly what I was like and open to, between those ages. I went into the Marines at 18 yeas of age. I was at the age of consent, but I was very immature. I was stationed in Okinawa, and I can tell you, that I had sex with older women. It didn’t damage me psychologically. Spiritually, of course, this was sin.

Is it wrong? Yes it is. Young males, especially between 12 and 18 years of age, don’t have the maturity to handle a sexual relationship, that will give them the proper attitude toward sex. Also, young males between those ages, who have had sex with older females, do not know how to handle relationships with females of their own age group, where females that they will date, do not want or have the sexual experience, that these young men where brought to, by the adult female. Having sex with young males, causes a distorted view of sex, for their age and some males, not all, have a hard time with meaningful relationships.

However, it is my guess, based on my life experience, that this is the minority. The majority of males who had sex when they were adolescents, with adult females, didn’t suffer negative consequences from it, other than having a un-Christian idea of sex. Which of course, is over come through the discovery of faith.

Jim

 

[system]

Jim - you have a point; or at least an opinion or guess as you said here:

However, it is my guess, based on my life experience, that this is the minority. The majority of males who had sex when they were adolescents, with adult females, didn’t suffer negative consequences from it, other than having a un-Christian idea of sex. Which of course, is over come through the discovery of faith.
Jim

And that is fine. But remember, **you’ve been stating it as fact; to the point of acusing males of dishonesty on this thread. ** (not so cool) Post #33:

I think there is some dishonesty here, especially from males.

If they looked back to when they were 14-18 years of age, having sex with an attractive female was a fantasy, an they often fantasied about having sex with older women. In fact, many attempted to have sex with willing females.

We all remember how we were, and I was caught up in just like you. In fact, I spent the Summer of '82 on Okinawa. I was told to avoid certain places and went looking for them right away.

In my life experience, which is as valid as yours, I later worked in schools for years…I saw boys 12 -18 lives practically destroyed by sexual abuse. Was the shame and guilt worse for them when they abuser was male? Maybe; especially in an all boys school where they would forever be assumed to be gay, or maybe wanted it, etc. But was their life “less damaged” when it was a female abuser? I don’t think so. In fact, I think it caused alot more ‘pretending’ to be ok.